Australian Politics Forum - Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.

FriYAY

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 7395

Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #240 - Jul 17^th, 2012 at 3:57pm

Gist wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 2:51pm:

FriYAY wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 2:32pm:

How many times do I have to tell you dam morons I’m not Lib/Nat, I’m not ALP, I’m not Greens.

Neither am I. But I seem to get the leftie/labor label. You get the libbo label. It's the cross we have to bear.

As for the people smashed into rocks - the ONLY way to stop that is to stop them getting into boats in the first place. Now there are two approaches to achieve that:

take away any hope of resettlement should they arrive on a boat. That's the libbo mantra. Except that it doesn't really stop them getting into boats, it only stops them getting into boats bound for Australia
Resettle them before they get to the point that they're willing to risk everything they have including their lives in boats

Now option 1 either means people keep just keep drowning (only we don't have to hear about them) or else they sit in squalid camps until they rot (and we don't hear about them). Option 2 actually achieves something worthwhile.

I know which option I choose. I'm not yet clear on which one you choose.

I know I lean right, it is obvious, but I would never vote for an Abbott led Lib’s. The other half is Greens all the way, FFS I was sitting there nodding along with dam Milne the other day! Shocked

1. Yes we should ensure those paying people smugglers are not resettled. As for the bold bit, they are going to do that anyway. (Why did you have to say libbo mantra – again? Tell me what the Malaysia swap solution is intended to do if not stop people getting into boats?)
2. Yes we should do more of that. But it is not enough, it needs the tough measures as above to stop the people smuggling trade.

There are 50 million displaced people world wide, that number will only increase.

All these are stopgap measures for a problem that will explode into a catastrophic disaster IMO. 100’s of millions will die because no one will want them and their countries can’t sustain them (do to environmental restrictions leading famine and disease, local environment degradation, wars etc).

Too many people on this planet, that’s the big problem.

Back to top

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 74257
Gender: male

Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #241 - Jul 17^th, 2012 at 7:41pm

Yadda wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 1:59am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 9:04pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 8:17pm:

Gist wrote on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 8:22am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 15^th, 2012 at 8:10pm:

My grandparentage is Czech Republic and Poland.

I am not Arab.

No? Then you are not jewish.

1) Yes i am
2) I am not a Arab.

End of the discussion.

He's not Arab ...

Arab are decent people ....

......if you are the example.

Nope, I'm an Aussie with an talian background ....

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 74257
Gender: male

Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #242 - Jul 17^th, 2012 at 7:44pm

Yadda wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 1:53am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 9:04pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 8:11pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:35am:

What an absolute load of Bollocks ..... you rednecks have no idea

Any refugee in Indonesia can NEVER get a job, Never own a home or business, they live in jails, slums or on the streets begging and stealing for enough food to survive .....the odd ones that do work, do so for cash money only and usually at a lessor rate than an Indonesian may get for the same job .....they have no rights ... this isn't living ... it's no way to raise a family or plan for a future ... I'd like to see any one of you morons settle for that .....

Pass me a hanky will you, I'm crying. Cry

Move to Mexico, Japan or a dozen other countries on the planet and you'll find the same for all foreigners.
What's your point.
Do you have one?
Either way, these economic migrants are diddling real refugees in camps overseas from having the opportunity the settle in Australia.
These economic migrants can fly anywhere on the planet if they choose.
Wake up.

only a moron cannot see the point .... pull your head out of your arse for a second and think about it, and it may hit you .... (I'm doubtful, but I'm an eternal optimist)

John Smith,

So excluding all of the abuse in your post, ......YOUR ARGUMENT IS, WHAT ?

That REAL refugees trapped inside refugees camps, have got to 'get in line',
.....behind those 'poor' moslem refugees in Indonesia, who have demonstrated that they have the financial means, to travel half way around the planet, and then, still have the financial means to pay another US$6,000-US$10,000 to a people smuggler, to get onto a boat to Australia ?

Dictionary;
smuggle = =
1 move (goods) illegally into or out of a country.
2 convey secretly and illicitly.

You spend 10 years in limbo ..no legal identity, no legal ability to provide for your family, no prospect of that ever changing, no chance for your kids future and then tell me they are risking their lives out of choice ... its not a choice, the human mind isn't designed like that ... humans need something to work to, some sort of goal, a destination ... living in limbo is for many is akin to living in a 4 x 4 jail cell with no prospect of parole ....

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jul 17^th, 2012 at 7:50pm by John Smith »

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10259
Gender: male

Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #243 - Jul 17^th, 2012 at 7:49pm

Gist wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 2:51pm:

FriYAY wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 2:32pm:

How many times do I have to tell you dam morons I’m not Lib/Nat, I’m not ALP, I’m not Greens.

Neither am I. But I seem to get the leftie/labor label. You get the libbo label. It's the cross we have to bear.

As for the people smashed into rocks - the ONLY way to stop that is to stop them getting into boats in the first place. Now there are two approaches to achieve that:

take away any hope of resettlement should they arrive on a boat. That's the libbo mantra. Except that it doesn't really stop them getting into boats, it only stops them getting into boats bound for Australia
Resettle them before they get to the point that they're willing to risk everything they have including their lives in boats

Now option 1 either means people keep just keep drowning (only we don't have to hear about them) or else they sit in squalid camps until they rot (and we don't hear about them). Option 2 actually achieves something worthwhile.

I know which option I choose. I'm not yet clear on which one you choose.

Perhaps you could flesh this out more. How does the resettlement position work?

Back to top

IP Logged

Gist

Gold Member

Offline

I am not a sock, I am
a human being!

Posts: 5476

Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #244 - Jul 17^th, 2012 at 8:13pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 7:49pm:

Perhaps you could flesh this out more. How does the resettlement position work?

With cogs and wires and a spring mechanism of course. Tongue

What kind of question is that? Maybe you could flesh it out? You know, with a statement of YOUR position and YOUR thinking and YOUR ideas. Or is that too much for you?

Back to top

"When our military goes to war it should be for purposes and objectives clearly in Australia’s interests, not merely because the Americans want some company" - Malcolm Fraser (2012 Whitlam Oration)

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #245 - Jul 17^th, 2012 at 8:47pm

Gist wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 8:13pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 7:49pm:

Perhaps you could flesh this out more. How does the resettlement position work?

With cogs and wires and a spring mechanism of course. Tongue

What kind of question is that? Maybe you could flesh it out? You know, with a statement of YOUR position and YOUR thinking and YOUR ideas. Or is that too much for you?

It is a very good question. Your preferred option was to "Resettle them before they get to the point that they're willing to risk everything they have including their lives in boats."

How many of those would you resettle? All? And if not all, how would you deal with the ones that you are not prepared to resettle and who therefore get into boats and sail for Australia because they do not want to wait in camps while you get good and ready to resettle them?

Back to top

IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10259
Gender: male

Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #246 - Jul 17^th, 2012 at 9:09pm

Gist wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 8:13pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 7:49pm:

Perhaps you could flesh this out more. How does the resettlement position work?

With cogs and wires and a spring mechanism of course. Tongue

What kind of question is that? Maybe you could flesh it out? You know, with a statement of YOUR position and YOUR thinking and YOUR ideas. Or is that too much for you?

I didn't pose the solution, you did.
I am merely asking how you would '[r]esettle them before they get to the point that they're willing to risk everything they have including their lives in boats' in a practical manner. How would your solution operate in a well thought out plan where workable objectives can be achieved. If you're serious about this problem, then you should be beyond vague platitudes. You are serious about 'boat people,' are you not?

Back to top

IP Logged

Emma

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9853
OZ
Gender: female

Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #247 - Jul 17^th, 2012 at 9:16pm

How many of those would you resettle? All? And if not all, how would you deal with the ones that you are not prepared to resettle and who therefore get into boats and sail for Australia because they do not want to wait in camps while you get good and ready to resettle them?
- Soren

ERR Soren --isn't that the case at present????????
What are you saying, do you know? Talk about finishing at the start of the argument.

Roll Eyes

Indonesia should do as Sri Lanka apparently does, and turn the boats back before they get outside the respective 'waters'.

Indonesia WILL NOT DO SO....hence most of these desperate people come to us from Indonesia.

That would be the pragmatists solution.
Once a boat has travelled so far... as to have approached or entered Australian waters,, the suggestion to turn them back loses all credibility.

A cruel and unusual and unnecessary act of punishment .

Unviable, life-threatening and against all civilised thinking.
LIKE IT or NOT.

Back to top

live every day

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #248 - Jul 17^th, 2012 at 9:44pm

Emma wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 9:16pm:

How many of those would you resettle? All? And if not all, how would you deal with the ones that you are not prepared to resettle and who therefore get into boats and sail for Australia because they do not want to wait in camps while you get good and ready to resettle them?
- Soren

ERR Soren --isn't that the case at present????????
What are you saying, do you know? Talk about finishing at the start of the argument.

Roll Eyes

Indonesia should do as Sri Lanka apparently does, and turn the boats back before they get outside the respective 'waters'.

Indonesia WILL NOT DO SO....hence most of these desperate people come to us from Indonesia.

That would be the pragmatists solution.
Once a boat has travelled so far... as to have approached or entered Australian waters,, the suggestion to turn them back loses all credibility.

A cruel and unusual and unnecessary act of punishment .

Unviable, life-threatening and against all civilised thinking.
LIKE IT or NOT.

SO anyone who gets a tourist visa to Indonesia and then wants to permanently settle in Australia should be allowed to come lest they take to the boats.
Is that what you are proposing as the civilised thinking?

Back to top

IP Logged

Emma

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9853
OZ
Gender: female

Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #249 - Jul 17^th, 2012 at 10:00pm

hardly... good at your personal interpretations aren't you soren.

tourist visas indeed. What a wally.

No - I am suggesting that Australia demands that Indonesia takes appropriate methods to patrol and contain their own borders. They control this.

No need for these tragedies to be on our wick. But that is what Indonesia is forcing on us.

Quite deliberately I might add. They get all these refugess, they don't want them, so off they send them /.. to us.

I suggest the major players in the 'people-smuggling' business are well known to us.
These cries to us all to deny people-smugglers their market byy being total arseholes, ... seems to disregard what(who) they are smuggling. These are people, not commodities.

Sadly, big country, small people.
We just don't have the numbers or the gumption - to take it to the source.

They are the most populous Muslim nation in the WORLD... after all.

Don't blame the refugees, the lost and homeless..... look to the heart of the matter and see that this is deliberate and orchestrated, to spread disunity within Australia.

AND GUYS its working.!!!!!!!!!!! Just look at the meal Abbott and his ilk make of it.

Traitorous is what I call it.!!

Back to top

live every day

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #250 - Jul 17^th, 2012 at 10:00pm

Emma wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 12:37am:

this is not an easy situation to solve .... in truth i believe it is UNsolvable... there is not enough compassion and care left in this whole world to succour the starving and the dispossessed.

Paying $7-10 K to people smugglers indicates that they are neither dispossessed nor starving.

Back to top

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #251 - Jul 17^th, 2012 at 10:05pm

Emma wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 10:00pm:

hardly... good at your personal interpretations aren't you soren.

tourist visas indeed. What a wally.

No - I am suggesting that Australia demands that Indonesia takes appropriate methods to patrol and contain their own borders. They control this.

No need for these tragedies to be on our wick. But that is what Indonesia is forcing on us.

Quite deliberately I might add. They get all these refugess, they don't want them, so off they send them /.. to us.

I suggest the major players in the 'people-smuggling' business are well known to us.
These cries to us all to deny people-smugglers their market byy being total arseholes, ... seems to disregard what(who) they are smuggling. These are people, not commodities.

Sadly, big country, small people.
We just don't have the numbers or the gumption - to take it to the source.

They are the most populous Muslim nation in the WORLD... after all.

Don't blame the refugees, the lost and homeless..... look to the heart of the matter and see that this is deliberate and orchestrated, to spread disunity within Australia.

AND GUYS its working.!!!!!!!!!!! Just look at the meal Abbott and his ilk make of it.

Traitorous is what I call it.!!

I am very sorry but I have no idea what you are trying to say. SO many words, yet no sense.
Turn back the boats and not take the people?.
Don't turn back the boats and take the people?
Turn back the boats but take the people?
Keep the boats and turn back the people?

What?

Back to top

IP Logged

corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post. Reply #252 - Jul 17^th, 2012 at 10:15pm If you want to know why they wont defend our borders and protect our peoples - its the Corporations and big business behind it.
Back to top	World Wide Working Class Struggle IP Logged

Emma

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9853
OZ
Gender: female

Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #253 - Jul 17^th, 2012 at 10:22pm

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 10:05pm:

I am very sorry but I have no idea what you are trying to say. SO many words, yet no sense.
Turn back the boats and not take the people?.
Don't turn back the boats and take the people?
Turn back the boats but take the people?
Keep the boats and turn back the people?

What?

You can't understand that? Whats wrong with you.? Is english a second language??

try harder dwad.

Back to top

live every day

IP Logged

Emma

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 9853
OZ
Gender: female

Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #254 - Jul 17^th, 2012 at 10:25pm

corporate_whitey wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 10:15pm:

If you want to know why they wont defend our borders and protect our peoples - its the Corporations and big business behind it. Tongue

You might be fooling around Sock, but you probably have a bit of truth there.

Hmm think I'll have to call everybody Sock. Cool

Back to top

live every day

IP Logged