Australian Politics Forum - Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.

Yadda

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Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Jul 11^th, 2012 at 11:16pm

An argument too good, not to post.

Quote:

The Conundrum………..

what’s the difference?

If someone was assaulting you and you defended yourself causing the death of the person assaulting you, chances are you'd rightly use the defence of 'self defence'.

However, if you went home and returned to the scene with a weapon and killed the person who assaulted you......It's almost a foregone conclusion, you'd probably be charged with murder.

Now let’s take the case of the so called 'poor refugees'.

According to my ' Oxford Dictionary' a refugee is someone who 'Escaped to a foreign country from religious or political persecution'.

Lets take the case of a Muslim escaping from 'where-ever'.
They enter Indonesia legally (they are now in a country where their religion is widely practised).
They have escaped from their own country and are now in a country where they are not being hounded for their political or religious beliefs............
They're home, they are refugees living in Indonesia .

They decide to leave the sanctuary of Indonesia

(remember they are refugees and they entered Indonesia legally).
They destroy all their papers, pay big money to jump on a boat and come to the 'lucky country AUSTRALIA' without any papers; upon arrival in Australia they receive all sorts of handouts from the government and if the paint in the refugee camps is not the right colour, they can get some arsehole lawyer (on legal aid) to sue the government on their behalf because the colour is affecting their eyesight.

But hang on a minute, what are they escaping from? They are in Indonesia .
No one is persecuting them for their religion, no one is persecuting them for their political beliefs; they are safe; why would they want to run away from a country that practices their beliefs????? Why would they want to go to a country that practices Christian beliefs when they don't want anything to have to do with it, and hate those who do?

My gut feeling is: The moment those people step on the boats in Indonesia , they have chosen to 'throw their refugee status away' (they were/are safe in that country).
They also chose to break Indonesia 's immigration laws by not filling departure forms in (you and I have to), so does that now not make them a criminal in Indonesia.

I'd like to know why, upon arrival in Australia , are these 'so-called-refugees' not charged with being 'ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS' and thrown on the first available flight out of the country. Remember they 'were' refugees whilst they were in Indonesia, they then chose to get rid of their papers; they chose to leave the country that had given them shelter; they chose to pay someone to transport them to Australia; they chose to get on a boat.

But above all they chose to leave the country that gave them sanctuary ' INDONESIA '.

Why is it, honest hard-working Australians have to pay taxes to keep these illegal immigrants (not refugees) in comfort while some do-gooder lawyer makes money out of the situation by trying to sue the government, to get more money for these ‘illegals’ who shouldn't be in this country in the first place. Then to add insult to injury, once they have citizenship papers they go home for holidays, and the Muslim women's association wants us to pay for it

WAKE UP AUSTRALIA , THEY ARE 'NOT' REFUGEES, THEY ARE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

IMO, this 'asylum issue' conundrum is an absurdity.

And many Australians are eeeediots, for not 'waking up' to what is REALLY occurring, regards these moslem 'asylum seekers'.

You are being led down the garden path darlings!

And you know what happens next, after we go into the tool shed.

Yadda.

The above came in an email, without a link.
But i'm sure a lil Googling can find a source.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Grey

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Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #1 - Jul 11^th, 2012 at 11:24pm

Yadda wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 11:16pm:

An argument too good, not to post.

Quote:

The Conundrum………..

what’s the difference?

If someone was assaulting you and you defended yourself causing the death of the person assaulting you, chances are you'd rightly use the defence of 'self defence'.

However, if you went home and returned to the scene with a weapon and killed the person who assaulted you......It's almost a foregone conclusion, you'd probably be charged with murder.

Now let’s take the case of the so called 'poor refugees'.

According to my ' Oxford Dictionary' a refugee is someone who 'Escaped to a foreign country from religious or political persecution'.

Lets take the case of a Muslim escaping from 'where-ever'.
They enter Indonesia legally (they are now in a country where their religion is widely practised).
They have escaped from their own country and are now in a country where they are not being hounded for their political or religious beliefs............
They're home, they are refugees living in Indonesia .

They decide to leave the sanctuary of Indonesia

(remember they are refugees and they entered Indonesia legally).
They destroy all their papers, pay big money to jump on a boat and come to the 'lucky country AUSTRALIA' without any papers; upon arrival in Australia they receive all sorts of handouts from the government and if the paint in the refugee camps is not the right colour, they can get some arsehole lawyer (on legal aid) to sue the government on their behalf because the colour is affecting their eyesight.

But hang on a minute, what are they escaping from? They are in Indonesia .
No one is persecuting them for their religion, no one is persecuting them for their political beliefs; they are safe; why would they want to run away from a country that practices their beliefs????? Why would they want to go to a country that practices Christian beliefs when they don't want anything to have to do with it, and hate those who do?

My gut feeling is: The moment those people step on the boats in Indonesia , they have chosen to 'throw their refugee status away' (they were/are safe in that country).
They also chose to break Indonesia 's immigration laws by not filling departure forms in (you and I have to), so does that now not make them a criminal in Indonesia.

I'd like to know why, upon arrival in Australia , are these 'so-called-refugees' not charged with being 'ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS' and thrown on the first available flight out of the country. Remember they 'were' refugees whilst they were in Indonesia, they then chose to get rid of their papers; they chose to leave the country that had given them shelter; they chose to pay someone to transport them to Australia; they chose to get on a boat.

But above all they chose to leave the country that gave them sanctuary ' INDONESIA '.

Why is it, honest hard-working Australians have to pay taxes to keep these illegal immigrants (not refugees) in comfort while some do-gooder lawyer makes money out of the situation by trying to sue the government, to get more money for these ‘illegals’ who shouldn't be in this country in the first place. Then to add insult to injury, once they have citizenship papers they go home for holidays, and the Muslim women's association wants us to pay for it

WAKE UP AUSTRALIA , THEY ARE 'NOT' REFUGEES, THEY ARE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

IMO, this 'asylum issue' conundrum is an absurdity.

And many Australians are eeeediots, for not 'waking up' to what is REALLY occurring, regards these moslem 'asylum seekers'.

You are being led down the garden path darlings!

And you know what happens next, after we go into the tool shed.

Yadda.

The above came in an email, without a link.
But i'm sure a lil Googling can find a source.

Indonesia is not a signatory to the convention on refugees. As far as I know no refugee has ever become a citizen of Indonesia, they are just imprisoned forever. so....
Quote:

They're home, they are refugees living in Indonesia .

this is bullshit.

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Yadda

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Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #2 - Jul 11^th, 2012 at 11:36pm

Grey wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 11:24pm:

Indonesia is not a signatory to the convention on refugees.

As far as I know no refugee has ever become a citizen of Indonesia, they are just imprisoned forever. so....

Quote:

They're home, they are refugees living in Indonesia .

this is bullshit.

Grey,

Indonesia, as a moslem nation, is obligated [by ISLAM] to give sanctuary to fellow moslems.

So, the fact that Indonesia is not a signatory to the convention on refugees is totally irrelevant - IN FACT.

And regards your argument, that moslems refugees [within Indonesia], would be imprisoned forever in a moslem nation......

hmm, what a horrific thought!!!!
/sarc off

Grey,

Where would moslems rather live ???

Would moslems much rather live, in an infidel nation, among infidels, whom they despise and hate ???

Yes, of course!!
/sarc off

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Gist

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Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #3 - Jul 11^th, 2012 at 11:44pm

Yadda wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 11:36pm:

Grey,

Indonesia, as a moslem nation, is obligated [by ISLAM] to give sanctuary to fellow moslems.

So, the fact that Indonesia is not a signatory to the convention on refugees is totally irrelevant - IN FACT.

And regards your argument, that moslems refugees [within Indonesia], would be imprisoned forever in a moslem nation......

hmm, what a horrific thought!!!!
/sarc off

Grey,

Where would moslems rather live ???

Would moslems much rather live, in an infidel nation, among infidels, whom they despise and hate ???

Yes, of course!!
/sarc off

Great, another drooling moron. Just what we needed. Roll Eyes

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Yadda

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Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #4 - Jul 12^th, 2012 at 12:43am

Gist wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 11:44pm:

Yadda wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 11:36pm:

Grey,

Indonesia, as a moslem nation, is obligated [by ISLAM] to give sanctuary to fellow moslems.

So, the fact that Indonesia is not a signatory to the convention on refugees is totally irrelevant - IN FACT.

And regards your argument, that moslems refugees [within Indonesia], would be imprisoned forever in a moslem nation......

hmm, what a horrific thought!!!!
/sarc off

Grey,

Where would moslems rather live ???

Would moslems much rather live, in an infidel nation, among infidels, whom they despise and hate ???

Yes, of course!!
/sarc off

Great, another drooling moron. Just what we needed. Roll Eyes

Great, debate, is personal abuse.

Another intellectual giant.

"Errr, i don't like your argument. And, you are a fuxxing moron!!"

Let me guess, you are a moslem ?

+++

And here is me thinking that debate, was a contest of ideas in a public place.

Dictionary;
idea = =
1 a thought or suggestion as to a possible course of action. a mental impression. a belief.
2 (the idea) the aim.
3 Philosophy (in Platonic thought) an eternally existing pattern of which individual things in any class are imperfect copies. (in Kantian thought) a concept of pure reason, not empirically based in experience.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21612 A cat with a view	Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post. Reply #5 - Jul 12^th, 2012 at 1:15am Yadda wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 12:43am: Let me guess, you are a moslem ? Gist, You are either, a Mohammedan, OR, you are 13 years old. Right ?
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #6 - Jul 12^th, 2012 at 5:29am

Basically indonesia cant handle the influx of refugees and arent signatory to the refugee convention. their policy is to lock them up in detention centres indefinitely until they can send them to a third country. They do not allow them to stay.

article from 2009
http://www.voanews.com/content/a-13-2009-08-20-voa8-68656257/354512.html

Article from 2011
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2011/06/21/indonesia-hosting-close-3000-refug...

Article from 2012
http://refugeeadvocacynetwork.org/indonesia-asylum-seekers-take-boats-frustratio...

It has nothing to do with religion. Despite what some rabid ppl here say about the muslim politics and religion thing that is only an extremist thing. There are plenty of countries with mainly muslims that have separation of state and religion.

Also yadda this is not an xtian country. There are some xtians here but we are not a theocracy.

SOB

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #7 - Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:14am

It's this simple. If they were genuine refugees, they would stop their journey in Indonesia. Most of these illegal (economic) immigrants are muslim and Indonesia is the most populous muslim nation in the world. It's also safe. Yet these people continue on trying to reach Australia because they see how good life can be here (or was until Gillard became PM). That they leave a safe country to try to reach ours is indicitive of the fact they are not genuine refugees, but country-shopping queue-jumpers.

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Scott Morrison DID wipe the floor with Bull Shitten!!!

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #8 - Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:17am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:14am:

It's this simple. If they were genuine refugees, they would stop their journey in Indonesia. Most of these illegal (economic) immigrants are muslim and Indonesia is the most populous muslim nation in the world. It's also safe. Yet these people continue on trying to reach Australia because they see how good life can be here (or was until Gillard became PM). That they leave a safe country to try to reach ours is indicitive of the fact they are not genuine refugees, but country-shopping queue-jumpers.

you obviously didnt read any of my post. I explained why they cant stay in indonesia.

SOB

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Whaaaaaah!
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Moron!

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Shane B

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Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #9 - Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:23am

Well they're getting in to Indonesia. Why aren't they fettuing turned away at the airport?

They then stay in Jakarta or wherever, sometimes for a couple of years or more until they can get on a boat. There doesn't seem to be too many getting locked up.

It is a corrupt trade, and the 4 Corners report speculated that kick backs from people smuggling are reaching very senior government officials. They have an incentive to turn a blind eye.

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Julia Gillard - twice selected, never elected.

We're still paying for the Whitlam Government.

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philperth2010

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Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #10 - Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:24am

Australia signed the refugee convention and agreed to grant asylum to genuine refugees.....Refugees are not recognised by Indonesia making it impossible for them to get a job or make a living in Indonesia.....The argument you put forward just proves how you have no idea what you are talking about as usual.....It is not illegal to seek sanctuary in any country who has signed the refugee convention and anyone who makes such claims is ignorant and stupid!!!

Roll Eyes

Ignorance gives one a large range of probabilities.
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Soren

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Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #11 - Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:24am

Grey wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 11:24pm:

Indonesia is not a signatory to the convention on refugees. As far as I know no refugee has ever become a citizen of Indonesia,

Right there, hold that point.

Being a refugee is NOT about being an immigrant (permanent settlement, citizenship, etc).

These people get on the boats to get permanent residence in Australia - ie they are immigrants. Except they would never be allowed into the country as immigrants (they couldn't even get tourist visas. These people would not be allowed into Australia legally, under their own ID.

Quote:

Quote:

They're home, they are refugees living in Indonesia .

this is bullshit.

It is not BS. They are safe from Taliban in Indonesia. Indonesia does not allow Taliban raids to come after them.

Just in:
PEOPLE-SMUGGLERS are instructing asylum-seekers to call Australian rescue crews as soon as their boats are barely off the Indonesian coast in a new tactic that is further stretching Australia's already overworked Customs and navy crew.

As authorities yesterday moved to assist an asylum boat north of Christmas Island after a distress call from those on board - the second in 24 hours - sources close to the smuggling trade in Jakarta told The Australian people-smugglers were encouraging passengers to use the Australian navy as a collection service to Christmas Island.

"They are not in trouble, they are lying," said a person with first-hand knowledge of how an Australian rescue mission was triggered by asylum-seeker phone calls on Tuesday morning.

The source was referring to 85 people who were taken off a boat on Tuesday night by Australian navy and Customs vessels about 80km from West Java, still well inside the Indonesian search and rescue zone and exclusive economic zone.

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Soren

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Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #12 - Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:30am

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:24am:

Australia signed the refugee convention and agreed to grant asylum to genuine refugees.....Refugees are not recognised by Indonesia making it impossible for them to get a job or make a living in Indonesia.....The argument you put forward just proves how you have no idea what you are talking about as usual.....It is not illegal to seek sanctuary in any country who has signed the refugee convention and anyone who makes such claims is ignorant and stupid!!!

Roll Eyes

Ignorance gives one a large range of probabilities.
George Eliot (1819 - 1880)

SO why did thy travel to Indonesia and lie to the Indonesians about the purpose of the trip?

About the sanctuary - they o not want sanctuary in Australia, they want permanent settlement.

Normally, a refugee flees the troubles and waits in the nearest safe haven to be resettled in a country that wants him. Post-war refugees did not fly to Indonesia or Cuba and sailed for Australia or the US and then claim refuge. They fled to the US/UK/French occupation areas of Europe and asked for [protection and waited until one of the re-settling countries took them.
Big diff.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #13 - Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:31am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:14am:

It's this simple. If they were genuine refugees, they would stop their journey in Indonesia. Most of these illegal (economic) immigrants are muslim and Indonesia is the most populous muslim nation in the world. It's also safe. Yet these people continue on trying to reach Australia because they see how good life can be here (or was until Gillard became PM). That they leave a safe country to try to reach ours is indicitive of the fact they are not genuine refugees, but country-shopping queue-jumpers.

yep, they are illegals

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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John Smith

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Re: Asylum seekers, an argument too good not to post.
Reply #14 - Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:35am

What an absolute load of Bollocks ..... you rednecks have no idea

Any refugee in Indonesia can NEVER get a job, Never own a home or business, they live in jails, slums or on the streets begging and stealing for enough food to survive .....the odd ones that do work, do so for cash money only and usually at a lessor rate than an Indonesian may get for the same job .....they have no rights ... this isn't living ... it's no way to raise a family or plan for a future ... I'd like to see any one of you morons settle for that .....

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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