Australian Politics Forum - Australian "values"

Quantum

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #135 - Oct 30^th, 2012 at 8:46pm

Bowen wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 8:37pm:

Many western did what you said in China. Actually, what you said is exactly the missionaries did in china in the past 200 years.

Do you think the missionaries to missionize in China is acceptable?

You must think it is fine. Surely you have no issue with it, otherwise you would have the same problem with Chinese not assimilating in Australia?

If China doesn't like the influence of foreigners then they will have to deal with that themselves (and they certainly try to. Lets not pretend those missionaries are welcomed with open arms) As an Australian, my only concern is with Australia. If I personally go to China I will show respect to their culture. I expect the same in return.

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Bowen

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #136 - Oct 30^th, 2012 at 8:58pm

If you think spreading culture is not acceptable, please stop the church at first.

I don't think spreading culture without force is a problem. Actually, my grand mother is a Christian but I'm not. Without culture intercommunion the world will have more misunderstanding, more war, more blood.

In ancient world, two border city-states may fight each others only because the difference of culture. Then the nations are bigger and bigger. Each nation is composed by many different sub-culture.

Now a day, it's 21st century. No one can avoid culture intercommunion and amalgamation. Why not can we absorb the good parts and avoid the bad part from different cultures?

And don't forget, I'm an Australian too. My value is part of Australian value too.

Quantum wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 8:46pm:

Bowen wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 8:37pm:

Many western did what you said in China. Actually, what you said is exactly the missionaries did in china in the past 200 years.

Do you think the missionaries to missionize in China is acceptable?

You must think it is fine. Surely you have no issue with it, otherwise you would have the same problem with Chinese not assimilating in Australia?

If China doesn't like the influence of foreigners then they will have to deal with that themselves (and they certainly try to. Lets not pretend those missionaries are welcomed with open arms) As an Australian, my only concern is with Australia. If I personally go to China I will show respect to their culture. I expect the same in return.

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Quantum

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #137 - Oct 30^th, 2012 at 10:21pm

Bowen wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 8:58pm:

If you think spreading culture is not acceptable, please stop the church at first.

Most historians claim Christianity was in China before it was in England. It was also obviously in China before it was in Australia. Irrespective, it is not my job to stop the rest of the world from influencing China or any other nation. I can only worry about the rest of the world influencing this one.

Quote:

I don't think spreading culture without force is a problem. Actually, my grand mother is a Christian but I'm not. Without culture intercommunion the world will have more misunderstanding, more war, more blood.

In ancient world, two border city-states may fight each others only because the difference of culture. Then the nations are bigger and bigger. Each nation is composed by many different sub-culture.

Now a day, it's 21st century. No one can avoid culture intercommunion and amalgamation. Why not can we absorb the good parts and avoid the bad part from different cultures?

And don't forget, I'm an Australian too. My value is part of Australian value too.

Despite many claims, multiculturalism is nothing new. Empires were built from a variety of cultures. Many have tried to absorb only the good, but the bad always comes along for the ride. It usually results in division and war and new borders been drawn to keep the cultures apart. It is a continuously tried and failed social experiment. I have no hope that Australia will somehow be different.

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« Last Edit: Oct 30^th, 2012 at 10:26pm by Quantum »

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Bowen

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #138 - Oct 30^th, 2012 at 10:35pm

You do not hope that Australia will change. But it's impossible.

The world always change. It's faster and faster in modern ages.

And Australia is not only yours but also mine.

What you are doing is like an old man in a small village who refuse to accept strangers, despite a highway is crossing your village.

Quantum wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 10:21pm:

Despite many claims, multiculturalism is nothing new. Empires were built from a variety of cultures. Many have tried to absorb only the good, but the bad always comes along for the ride. It usually results in division and war and new borders been drawn to keep the cultures apart. It is a continuously tried and failed social experiment. I have no hope that Australia will somehow be different.

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Quantum

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #139 - Oct 30^th, 2012 at 11:19pm

Bowen wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 10:35pm:

You do not hope that Australia will change. But it's impossible.

The world always change. It's faster and faster in modern ages.

And Australia is not only yours but also mine.

What you are doing is like an old man in a small village who refuse to accept strangers, despite a highway is crossing your village.

Quantum wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 10:21pm:

Despite many claims, multiculturalism is nothing new. Empires were built from a variety of cultures. Many have tried to absorb only the good, but the bad always comes along for the ride. It usually results in division and war and new borders been drawn to keep the cultures apart. It is a continuously tried and failed social experiment. I have no hope that Australia will somehow be different.

You say; "And Australia is not only yours but also mine", but I wonder how much you really believe the first part? You're like a guest who has come in to a persons house and decided to rearrange the furniture. You were welcomed in, but you showed no respect to the house owner. You said; "this house is as much mine as it is yours now, but I will choose how it will be set out from now on."

You seem to be saying that Australians born here (The old man) will have to accept those coming here, but those coming don't have to accept the old man.

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Bowen

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #140 - Oct 30^th, 2012 at 11:39pm

I am not a guest but an Australian citizen like you. I moved to Australia partially because I was convinced that Australia is multicultural. And I contribute to Australia as a citizen too.

You may be born here but your grand father's grand father was not born here too. Most of Australian was born overseas or parents was born overseas. What's the difference between you and me when we talk about Australia?

We are equal for political rights. You should not look me as a guest but a family member.

Will you speak to me with the same words if I was born in London as a Anglo-Saxon?

The problem of you is racialism. Your racialism makes you believe you have more rights than me. Fortunately, it's 2012 not 1912 today.

Quantum wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 11:19pm:

Bowen wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 10:35pm:

You do not hope that Australia will change. But it's impossible.

The world always change. It's faster and faster in modern ages.

And Australia is not only yours but also mine.

What you are doing is like an old man in a small village who refuse to accept strangers, despite a highway is crossing your village.

Quantum wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 10:21pm:

Despite many claims, multiculturalism is nothing new. Empires were built from a variety of cultures. Many have tried to absorb only the good, but the bad always comes along for the ride. It usually results in division and war and new borders been drawn to keep the cultures apart. It is a continuously tried and failed social experiment. I have no hope that Australia will somehow be different.

You say; "And Australia is not only yours but also mine", but I wonder how much you really believe the first part? You're like a guest who has come in to a persons house and decided to rearrange the furniture. You were welcomed in, but you showed no respect to the house owner. You said; "this house is as much mine as it is yours now, but I will choose how it will be set out from now on."

You seem to be saying that Australians born here (The old man) will have to accept those coming here, but those coming don't have to accept the old man.

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« Last Edit: Oct 30^th, 2012 at 11:46pm by Bowen »

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Quantum

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #141 - Oct 30^th, 2012 at 11:55pm

Bowen wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 11:39pm:

I am not a guest but an Australian citizen like you. I moved to Australia partially because I was convinced that Australia is multicultural. And I contribute to Australia as a citizen too.

You may be born here but your grand father's grand father was not born here too. Most of Australian was born overseas or parents was born overseas. What's the difference between you and me when we talk about Australia?

We are equal for political rights. You should not look me as a guest but a family member.

Will you speak to me with the same words if I was born in London as a Anglo-Saxon?

The problem of you is racialism. It's racialism makes you believe you have more rights than me. Fortunately, it's 2012 not 1912 today.

Shouldn't have edited your post. You lost your argument right there.

Playing the race card does not work. We are talking culture, not skin colour. Many Africans and Asians are as Australian as any Anglo. There are many different races in Australia who likewise don't like immigrants coming here and disrespecting Australian values.

Race isn't the issue. Culture is. Come here and live as an Australian; no one cares. Come here and act like you're in your own country; people will take issue.

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Bowen

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #142 - Oct 31^st, 2012 at 12:08am

Do you respect the Freedom of Religions as the part of human rights?

If sure. Keeping and spreading my favorite culture is the part of my human rights too.

My value is a part of Australian value. Because I have the equal human rights with you. You did not get the point still.

Someone may have issue because they do not respect human rights. They are Nazi.

BTW, at least I appreciate you are not a racist based on skin color.

Quantum wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 11:55pm:

Bowen wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 11:39pm:

I am not a guest but an Australian citizen like you. I moved to Australia partially because I was convinced that Australia is multicultural. And I contribute to Australia as a citizen too.

You may be born here but your grand father's grand father was not born here too. Most of Australian was born overseas or parents was born overseas. What's the difference between you and me when we talk about Australia?

We are equal for political rights. You should not look me as a guest but a family member.

Will you speak to me with the same words if I was born in London as a Anglo-Saxon?

The problem of you is racialism. It's racialism makes you believe you have more rights than me. Fortunately, it's 2012 not 1912 today.

Shouldn't have edited your post. You lost your argument right there.

Playing the race card does not work. We are talking culture, not skin colour. Many Africans and Asians are as Australian as any Anglo. There are many different races in Australia who likewise don't like immigrants coming here and disrespecting Australian values.

Race isn't the issue. Culture is. Come here and live as an Australian; no one cares. Come here and act like you're in your own country; people will take issue.

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« Last Edit: Oct 31^st, 2012 at 12:21am by Bowen »

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Quantum

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #143 - Oct 31^st, 2012 at 12:26am

Bowen wrote on Oct 31^st, 2012 at 12:08am:

Do you respect the Freedom of Religions as the part of human rights?

I do respect freedom of religion.

Quote:

If sure. Keeping and spreading my favorite culture is the part of my human rights too.

My value is a part of Australian value. Because I have the equal human rights with you. You did not get the point still.

Someone may have issue because they do not respect human rights. They are Nazi.

What culture is that?

Quote:

BTW, at least I appreciate you are not a racist based on skin color.

Does that imply there is another type of racist?

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Bowen

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #144 - Oct 31^st, 2012 at 12:39am

What I want to do is merge the advantage of Chinese culture to Australian culture. I believe the amalgamation of cultures is the direction of this world.

Why not we absorb the good parts of different cultures and avoid the bad parts? I can list many good parts of Chinese culture when I have time. And I respect the political culture of Australia that is another reason I came here.

I have no religion and I believe science. I believe science and technologies can change the world. That is what I'm doing.

To be honest, when you said you are not a racist, and I believed you. I felt more pity to you. I can imagine an old man in the small village who can not understand the change of the world. You are scared by the change of the world.

What I want to tell you is don't worry. With our contribution, the world will be better and Australia will be better.

Quantum wrote on Oct 31^st, 2012 at 12:26am:

Bowen wrote on Oct 31^st, 2012 at 12:08am:

Do you respect the Freedom of Religions as the part of human rights?

I do respect freedom of religion.

Quote:

If sure. Keeping and spreading my favorite culture is the part of my human rights too.

My value is a part of Australian value. Because I have the equal human rights with you. You did not get the point still.

Someone may have issue because they do not respect human rights. They are Nazi.

What culture is that?

Quote:

BTW, at least I appreciate you are not a racist based on skin color.

Does that imply there is another type of racist?

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JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5471 Gender:	Re: Australian "values" Reply #145 - Oct 31^st, 2012 at 1:23am you are my ffavourite troll
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #146 - Oct 31^st, 2012 at 3:44am

Quantum wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 7:14pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 6:57pm:

Quantum wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

Bowen wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 5:24pm:

You have your own "Australian value", and I have my own.

Both of us are "Australian" now. Without asking, how can we know what the values for each other?

... wrote on Aug 27^th, 2012 at 10:57am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 15^th, 2012 at 5:02am:

WTF are these propaganda australian values anyway.

SOB

If you have to ask, you don't have them.

Which sadly is the growing attitude of a lot of people who come to Australia. But many of these same people would expect the customs and values of their native county to be respected.

Well since i am australian then my values must be australian. Perhaps then every australian should have my values.

SOB

Go to any country on earth and you will find a national identity. China is a very different county to Germany, and India is very different from Canada. Does anyone believe that Australia is truly without flavour? That there is nothing Australian about Australia? If everyone who comes here just ignores the culture of this nation and brings their own nations values with them, how long do you reckon this place will last?

Australian culture may be getting diluted quickly, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It also doesn't mean Australians should be happy when new arrivals get here and say "you don't have national values and I will just bring my own". These are probably the same people who will move into a suburb assimilated by their own people; have their native flag on their roof; and talk about how great the culture of their native county is. To sum up their attitude; "respect my culture but bugger yours".

National identity is not values though. It wouldn't be very good if everyone acted like crocodile dundee would it.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #147 - Oct 31^st, 2012 at 3:54am

Quantum wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 11:55pm:

Bowen wrote on Oct 30^th, 2012 at 11:39pm:

I am not a guest but an Australian citizen like you. I moved to Australia partially because I was convinced that Australia is multicultural. And I contribute to Australia as a citizen too.

You may be born here but your grand father's grand father was not born here too. Most of Australian was born overseas or parents was born overseas. What's the difference between you and me when we talk about Australia?

We are equal for political rights. You should not look me as a guest but a family member.

Will you speak to me with the same words if I was born in London as a Anglo-Saxon?

The problem of you is racialism. It's racialism makes you believe you have more rights than me. Fortunately, it's 2012 not 1912 today.

Shouldn't have edited your post. You lost your argument right there.

Playing the race card does not work. We are talking culture, not skin colour. Many Africans and Asians are as Australian as any Anglo. There are many different races in Australia who likewise don't like immigrants coming here and disrespecting Australian values.

Race isn't the issue. Culture is. Come here and live as an Australian; no one cares. Come here and act like you're in your own country; people will take issue.

You are confusing culture and values.

SOB

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Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #148 - Oct 31^st, 2012 at 3:56am

Quantum wrote on Oct 31^st, 2012 at 12:26am:

Bowen wrote on Oct 31^st, 2012 at 12:08am:

Do you respect the Freedom of Religions as the part of human rights?

I do respect freedom of religion.

Quote:

If sure. Keeping and spreading my favorite culture is the part of my human rights too.

My value is a part of Australian value. Because I have the equal human rights with you. You did not get the point still.

Someone may have issue because they do not respect human rights. They are Nazi.

What culture is that?

Quote:

BTW, at least I appreciate you are not a racist based on skin color.

Does that imply there is another type of racist?

There are ppl that dont like other races regardless of skin colour. Eg dutch or germans or something.

SOB

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Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

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Bowen

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #149 - Nov 1^st, 2012 at 5:55am

What is the Australia value I accept?

This is the Australia value I accept.

"From this time forward, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people, whose democratic beliefs I share, whose rights and liberties I respect, and whose laws I will uphold and obey."

This is the only Australia value I accept, because I pledged.

No one can force me to accept any other value except this words.

Not English speaking, Not Anglo-Saxon culture, Not the value in your home.

With this "Australia value", there won't be a separated society but a big family.

Some guys here is making the separated society by highlighting their own value to replace the real "Australia value".

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