Australian Politics Forum - Australian "values"

Grendel

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #885 - Dec 15^th, 2013 at 9:36pm

Emma wrote on Dec 13^th, 2013 at 11:01pm:

Grendel wrote on Dec 13^th, 2013 at 7:23am:

Listen Emma... are you taking your meds...? If I knew what you were on about I wouldn't ask... a normal person would explain themselves. Roll Eyes

Now since there is such a large disconnect between reality, plain English and what you post, perhaps you could at least try to be comprehensible occasionally. Hmmm?
Obtuse and incomprehensible went out of fashion with the end of the beat generation. Cheesy

Grime...?? I do not believe you are as ignorant as you pretend to be.

If you would really like to understand what I am saying.. go visit off-shore detention 'facilities' (gulags)(concentration camps) set up by you.... and your like. Foul is foul whatever language or colour you are. Angry

.

Check it out for yourself/... or do you think these 'facilities' are holiday camps for goodness sake????

I think most of the offshore facilities are poo. But then I don't think we should have them. I don't think we should be pandering to people smugglers and people who use criminals to get here.
I think they are poo, deliberately. As a disincentive to come and to stay.

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Grendel

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #886 - Dec 15^th, 2013 at 9:38pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2013 at 6:39pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 13^th, 2013 at 7:32pm:

Australia doesn't owe the 'women and children' of the world anything. Australia doesn't owe the men of the world anything. Australia is a country, like the other 190+, that has the right to take the driver's seat in determining its own future.

Except we have made commitments to other nations that we believe and desire to uphold certain behaviour over the issue of the rights of Asylum Seekers, Soren.

It is clear we are not carrying out our part of the agreement under the UN Convention on the Status of Refugees.

Do you believe we are? Roll Eyes

Really?
Then put it to a referendum and see what the majority really think.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Australian "values" Reply #887 - Dec 15^th, 2013 at 9:40pm Emma wrote on Dec 14^th, 2013 at 10:36pm: soren.. can't you understand your faux pas.? the term " refugees " excludes illegal immigrants. They are 'not the same'. Do Y.O.U U.N.D.E.R.S.T.A.N.D.!?? The real question Emma is do you understand what YOU are talking about... medication time I'd think.
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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Australian "values" Reply #888 - Dec 15^th, 2013 at 9:50pm Grime.. you know you are a tiresome git,, and obviously revel in it... personally I couldn't give a continental', what you think.. ..you are welcome to go on making yourself a legend in your own mind...
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Brian Ross

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #889 - Dec 15^th, 2013 at 11:30pm

Grendel wrote on Dec 15^th, 2013 at 9:36pm:

Emma wrote on Dec 13^th, 2013 at 11:01pm:

Grendel wrote on Dec 13^th, 2013 at 7:23am:

Listen Emma... are you taking your meds...? If I knew what you were on about I wouldn't ask... a normal person would explain themselves. Roll Eyes

Now since there is such a large disconnect between reality, plain English and what you post, perhaps you could at least try to be comprehensible occasionally. Hmmm?
Obtuse and incomprehensible went out of fashion with the end of the beat generation. Cheesy

Grime...?? I do not believe you are as ignorant as you pretend to be.

If you would really like to understand what I am saying.. go visit off-shore detention 'facilities' (gulags)(concentration camps) set up by you.... and your like. Foul is foul whatever language or colour you are. Angry

.

Check it out for yourself/... or do you think these 'facilities' are holiday camps for goodness sake????

I think most of the offshore facilities are poo. But then I don't think we should have them. I don't think we should be pandering to people smugglers and people who use criminals to get here.
I think they are poo, deliberately. As a disincentive to come and to stay.

Care to explain how creating disincentives to Asylum Seekers to come here fits with our responsibilities under the UN Convention on Refugees, Beowulf?

I predict that Beowulf will reply with his usual tirade of insult, ad hominem and/or the posting of silly pictures or cartoons.

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #890 - Dec 15^th, 2013 at 11:33pm

Grendel wrote on Dec 15^th, 2013 at 9:38pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2013 at 6:39pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 13^th, 2013 at 7:32pm:

Australia doesn't owe the 'women and children' of the world anything. Australia doesn't owe the men of the world anything. Australia is a country, like the other 190+, that has the right to take the driver's seat in determining its own future.

Except we have made commitments to other nations that we believe and desire to uphold certain behaviour over the issue of the rights of Asylum Seekers, Soren.

It is clear we are not carrying out our part of the agreement under the UN Convention on the Status of Refugees.

Do you believe we are? Roll Eyes

Really?
Then put it to a referendum and see what the majority really think.

Why, I'm not asking the people, I'm asking Soren.

Here's a direct question to you, Beowulf. Are we carrying out our obligations under the UN Convention on Refugees?

I predict that Beowulf will not answer the question but resort to his usual tirade of abuse, ad hominem and/or post a silly picture of cartoon.

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Datalife

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #891 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 12:02am

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 15^th, 2013 at 11:33pm:

Here's a direct question to you, Beowulf. Are we carrying out our obligations under the UN Convention on Refugees?

Well people are being detained whilst bona fides are checked...as best they can with people who destroy IDs and have rehearsed stories and they are being resettled in a signatory country.

So yes.

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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Datalife

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #892 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 12:07am

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 15^th, 2013 at 11:30pm:

Care to explain how creating disincentives to Asylum Seekers to come here fits with our responsibilities under the UN Convention on Refugees, Beowulf?

What disincentives are you talking about Brian? You wanna be specific? Being resettled in PNG? Is that the one that upsets you? Which convention is that breaking? Remember Labor has already tried a non signatory nation with the Malaysia solution. Not to mention the still born Timor initiative Grin

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« Last Edit: Dec 16^th, 2013 at 12:12am by Datalife »

"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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Grendel

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #893 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 8:41am

Emma wrote on Dec 15^th, 2013 at 9:50pm:

Grime.. you know you are a tiresome git,, and obviously revel in it...
personally I couldn't give a continental', what you think.. ..you are welcome to go on making yourself a legend in your own mind...

Well I suggest you don't ask in future...
And for the life of me I don't get the Grime thing... back on the meds for you EP.

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Grendel

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #894 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 8:43am

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 15^th, 2013 at 11:30pm:

Grendel wrote on Dec 15^th, 2013 at 9:36pm:

Emma wrote on Dec 13^th, 2013 at 11:01pm:

Grendel wrote on Dec 13^th, 2013 at 7:23am:

Listen Emma... are you taking your meds...? If I knew what you were on about I wouldn't ask... a normal person would explain themselves. Roll Eyes

Now since there is such a large disconnect between reality, plain English and what you post, perhaps you could at least try to be comprehensible occasionally. Hmmm?
Obtuse and incomprehensible went out of fashion with the end of the beat generation. Cheesy

Grime...?? I do not believe you are as ignorant as you pretend to be.

If you would really like to understand what I am saying.. go visit off-shore detention 'facilities' (gulags)(concentration camps) set up by you.... and your like. Foul is foul whatever language or colour you are. Angry

.

Check it out for yourself/... or do you think these 'facilities' are holiday camps for goodness sake????

I think most of the offshore facilities are poo. But then I don't think we should have them. I don't think we should be pandering to people smugglers and people who use criminals to get here.
I think they are poo, deliberately. As a disincentive to come and to stay.

Care to explain how creating disincentives to Asylum Seekers to come here fits with our responsibilities under the UN Convention on Refugees, Beowulf?

I predict that Beowulf will reply with his usual tirade of insult, ad hominem and/or the posting of silly pictures or cartoons.

Why... youre making the claim not me.
We should either have the convention amended or pull out we can withdraw from it you know.
It was written as Soren mentioned for another time and other issue.
You'll deny it but many are simply country shoppers... they should all be deported back.
Those incompatible with out lifestyle etc should be resettled elsewhere.

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|dev|null

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #895 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 10:48am

Article 31 of the Convention states:
Quote:

The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.

Appears to me that detaining them is a penalty and a punishment, therefore illegal under the terms of the Convention. All of the Asylum Seekers do present themselves to the authorities upon arrival and attempt to show good cause for their entry or presence. Cheesy

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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Soren

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #896 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 11:53am

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2013 at 11:17pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 14^th, 2013 at 10:03pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2013 at 6:39pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 13^th, 2013 at 7:32pm:

Australia doesn't owe the 'women and children' of the world anything. Australia doesn't owe the men of the world anything. Australia is a country, like the other 190+, that has the right to take the driver's seat in determining its own future.

Except we have made commitments to other nations that we believe and desire to uphold certain behaviour over the issue of the rights of Asylum Seekers, Soren.

It is clear we are not carrying out our part of the agreement under the UN Convention on the Status of Refugees.

Do you believe we are? Roll Eyes

The Refugee Convention has NEVER been about saving people from themselves, after they buggered up their own societies.

Funny, I can't find any mention of that in the text of the Convention or the actual conference, Soren. Care to provide some evidence?

Quote:

The Refugee Convention was about saving European refugees from the the aftermath of the Nazis and the commies.

Weren't they examples of, "saving people from themselves, after they buggered up their own societies?" Weren't Nazis German or Commies [insert Eastern European nationality of choice]?

Quote:

The Afghans, the Iranians, the Iraqis, Sri Lankans, Vietnamese - they are all fleeing themselves. They are fleeing Muslim, Communist, nazi (nationalist) regimes they willed into existence themselves.

So, who created the Nazi Third Reich or the Communist regimes of Eastern Europe, Soren? Space Aliens? Roll Eyes

I note though, you have avoided the question I asked?

Are we carrying out our obligations under the UN Convention on Refugees, Soren? Roll Eyes

Yes.

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Soren

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #897 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 11:57am

|dev|null wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 10:48am:

Article 31 of the Convention states:
Quote:

The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.

Appears to me that detaining them is a penalty and a punishment, therefore illegal under the terms of the Convention. All of the Asylum Seekers do present themselves to the authorities upon arrival and attempt to show good cause for their entry or presence. Cheesy

They are not coming from the territory where they were threatened.

Country shoppers can be detained.

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|dev|null

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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #898 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 12:16pm

Soren wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 11:57am:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 10:48am:

Article 31 of the Convention states:
Quote:

The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.

Appears to me that detaining them is a penalty and a punishment, therefore illegal under the terms of the Convention. All of the Asylum Seekers do present themselves to the authorities upon arrival and attempt to show good cause for their entry or presence. Cheesy

They are not coming from the territory where they were threatened.

Country shoppers can be detained.

Not according to the Convention they can't. Nor are they "country shoppers", they are availing themselves of the first nation available to them that is a signatory of the convention. Attempting to claim asylum in a non-signatory nation is dangerous.

I wonder though, why you only get upset about boat people? Three times as many Asylum Seekers apply at airports than at harbours. We have hundreds of thousands of real illegal immigrants and you say nothing. It's only people who arrive by boat who get you excited. I wonder why? Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: Australian "values" Reply #899 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 12:20pm Returning for a moment to the original topic of the thread. What "Australian values" are being displayed when we duck out of our responsibilities under the UN Convention on Refugees, punish Asylum Seekers for asking Asylum and create disincentives to stop them doing is? Grendel? Soren? Any attempt to answer the question?
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