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Australian "values" (Read 61379 times)
Grendel
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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #915 - Dec 16th, 2013 at 9:48pm  
greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 1:09pm:
Grendel wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 8:43am:
You'll deny it but many are simply country shoppers...  they should all be deported back.



These are the facts:

"Overwhelming majority of boat arrivals deemed to be refugees"

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/overwhelming-majority-of-b...

"More than 90 per cent of asylum seekers who arrived by boat were found to be genuine refugees in the March quarter, figures to be released on Monday show. But those who arrived by plane - despite being eligible for release into the community and not having to face years of detention on Nauru or Manus Island - were almost twice as likely to be rejected as refugees."

Puhlease...  been rebutted so many times only an idiot would try reposting it again and again and again...
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Life_goes_on
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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #916 - Dec 16th, 2013 at 11:45pm  
Quote:
Of course ILLEGAL ENTRY etc is mentioned several times in Article 31...  you failed to quote it all.


The convention was written with mainly Europe in mind where refugees crossed borders via land routes.

In Australia's case (an island), you're only entering the country illegally if you're on land that's considered Australian territory and you've bypassed the whole customs/immigration process. You're an illegal arrival if you do that.

At sea it's a different matter. You can legally pass through Australian waters without the required docs (passport, visa etc). If you happen across or call up an Australian naval or customs vessel and decide you want to seek asylum and you're happy to put yourself under their care for the trip to shore, then you're not entering Australia illegally.

It's only illegal if you've got your feet on solid ground (i.e. you've entered Australia) and you've bypassed customs and immigration (the exception being DMZs at international airports). Just being in Australian waters doesn't count as far as the definition for illegal entry goes.
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"You're just one lucky motherf-cker" - Someone, 5th February 2013

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Soren
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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #917 - Dec 17th, 2013 at 7:47am  
Emma wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 9:36pm:
utter crap Soren...
this sort of shite is what got Abbott and fellow crims into power...
yep  ...... mugs like you. Angry



BTW, if there are so many more visa overstayers than boat arrivals - why do the boaties bother with the boats?

Why not buy a plane ticket?? A lot cheaper and safer and thy can still claim asylum.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #918 - Dec 17th, 2013 at 8:37am  
Grendel wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 9:48pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 1:09pm:
Grendel wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 8:43am:
You'll deny it but many are simply country shoppers...  they should all be deported back.



These are the facts:

"Overwhelming majority of boat arrivals deemed to be refugees"

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/overwhelming-majority-of-b...

"More than 90 per cent of asylum seekers who arrived by boat were found to be genuine refugees in the March quarter, figures to be released on Monday show. But those who arrived by plane - despite being eligible for release into the community and not having to face years of detention on Nauru or Manus Island - were almost twice as likely to be rejected as refugees."

Puhlease...  been rebutted so many times ...



Incorrect.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #919 - Dec 17th, 2013 at 8:42am  
Grendel wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 9:46pm:
Article 31 of the Convention states:
Quote:
The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their
illegal entry
or presence.


Of course ILLEGAL ENTRY etc is mentioned several times in Article 31...  you failed to quote it all.
So I guess they are after all ILLEGAL ENTRANTS after all eh...

Squirm, squirm, twist, twist, another foot with a hole shot in it. 



"unlawful non-citizen"
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Soren
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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #920 - Dec 17th, 2013 at 8:51am  
greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 8:42am:
Grendel wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 9:46pm:
Article 31 of the Convention states:
Quote:
The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their
illegal entry
or presence.


Of course ILLEGAL ENTRY etc is mentioned several times in Article 31...  you failed to quote it all.
So I guess they are after all ILLEGAL ENTRANTS after all eh...

Squirm, squirm, twist, twist, another foot with a hole shot in it. 



"unlawful non-citizen"




unauthorisad maritime arrivals, actually.
unlawful non-citizens are visa overstayers.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #921 - Dec 17th, 2013 at 8:58am  
Soren wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 8:51am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 8:42am:
Grendel wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 9:46pm:
Article 31 of the Convention states:
Quote:
The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their
illegal entry
or presence.


Of course ILLEGAL ENTRY etc is mentioned several times in Article 31...  you failed to quote it all.
So I guess they are after all ILLEGAL ENTRANTS after all eh...

Squirm, squirm, twist, twist, another foot with a hole shot in it. 



"unlawful non-citizen"




unauthorisad maritime arrivals, actually.
unlawful non-citizens are visa overstayers.




Not quite.

MIGRATION ACT 1958 - SECT 5AA

Meaning of unauthorised maritime arrival
             (1)  For the purposes of this Act, a person is an unauthorised maritime arrival if:

                     (a)  the person entered Australia by sea:

                              (i)  at an excised offshore place at any time after the excision time for that place; or

                             (ii)  at any other place at any time on or after the commencement of this section; and

                     (b)  the person became an unlawful non-citizen because of that entry; and

                     (c)  the person is not an excluded maritime arrival.
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|dev|null
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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #922 - Dec 17th, 2013 at 10:19am  
Soren wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 8:51pm:
|dev|null wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 3:04pm:
The Convention requires that we not punish or place disincentives in their path to prevent them from claiming Asylum. 


They are not punished for or discouraged from claiming asylum.




What fantasy land do you live in?  We have had government run campaigns trying to discourage Asylum Seekers with film of the deadly wildlife, the harsh internment conditions and then we have the Pacific Gulag as well!  Why are you denying reality?   Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
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|dev|null
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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #923 - Dec 17th, 2013 at 10:23am  
Grendel wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 9:42pm:
|dev|null wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 12:20pm:
Returning for a moment to the original topic of the thread.  What "Australian values" are being displayed when we duck out of our responsibilities under the UN Convention on Refugees, punish Asylum Seekers for asking Asylum and create disincentives to stop them doing is?

Grendel?  Soren?  Any attempt to answer the question?  Grin Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin Grin

I don't really come here to answer questions that are 1/self evident or 2/ asked by idiots who say they are just here to mock others.


When idiots like Soren claim there are no disincentives to prevent Asylum Seekers seeking Asylum in Australia, they deserve mocking.  When fools like you continually resort to insults and ad hominem, silly cartoons and pictures rather than actually engage in the debate you claim you crave, yes, you deserve mocking.  You will be mocked until you start acting sensibly.   Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin

Quote:
According to you Jnr we don't have a culture we don't have cultural values or any values apparently...  so you question is just a tad moot isn't it.  Roll Eyes


No, you're the one who maintains we have a "unique culture" with "unique values" so therefore, you should be able to supply an answer.  That you won't indicates what about your claims?   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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|dev|null
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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #924 - Dec 17th, 2013 at 10:25am  
Grendel wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 9:46pm:
Article 31 of the Convention states:
Quote:
The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their
illegal entry
or presence.


Of course ILLEGAL ENTRY etc is mentioned several times in Article 31...  you failed to quote it all.
So I guess they are after all ILLEGAL ENTRANTS after all eh...

Squirm, squirm, twist, twist, another foot with a hole shot in it.   Grin


They are not, under Australian law illegal immigrants until their application for Asylum are denied.  That you need to be taken through the legal process...again...simply shows that you are prejudiced to understand how it works...again.   Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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|dev|null
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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #925 - Dec 17th, 2013 at 10:28am  
Soren wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 7:47am:
Emma wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 9:36pm:
utter crap Soren...
this sort of shite is what got Abbott and fellow crims into power...
yep  ...... mugs like you. Angry



BTW, if there are so many more visa overstayers than boat arrivals - why do the boaties bother with the boats?

Why not buy a plane ticket?? A lot cheaper and safer and thy can still claim asylum.


You need a valid visa to step onto a plane.  The Australian Government will not issue one to anybody who looks like they're going to claim Asylum.   So, it becomes a catch-22 situation.  You can't fly here to claim Asylum with a visa, you cannot get a visa, if you're likely to claim Asylum.  The only other way to get here is by boat and so the Australian government is actually creating the market for the people smugglers.    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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|dev|null
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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #926 - Dec 17th, 2013 at 10:31am  
So, again returning to the original topic of the thread for a second time as neither Grendel or Soren have answered my question.  What "Australian values" are being displayed when we duck out of our responsibilities under the UN Convention on Refugees, punish Asylum Seekers for asking Asylum and create disincentives to stop them doing so?

Grendel?  Soren?  Any attempt to actually answer the question?   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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Soren
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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #927 - Dec 17th, 2013 at 12:47pm  
|dev|null wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 10:28am:
Soren wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 7:47am:
Emma wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 9:36pm:
utter crap Soren...
this sort of shite is what got Abbott and fellow crims into power...
yep  ...... mugs like you. Angry



BTW, if there are so many more visa overstayers than boat arrivals - why do the boaties bother with the boats?

Why not buy a plane ticket?? A lot cheaper and safer and thy can still claim asylum.


You need a valid visa to step onto a plane.  The Australian Government will not issue one to anybody who looks like they're going to claim Asylum. 



How come there are more asylum seekers who arrived on planes than on boats, then?



As for discouraging them from seeking asylum, you are wrong. They are strongly discouraged from coming on leaky boats. Not the same thing - see above, plane arrivals.

Swivel on.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #928 - Dec 17th, 2013 at 1:11pm  
Soren wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 12:47pm:
|dev|null wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 10:28am:
Soren wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 7:47am:
Emma wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 9:36pm:
utter crap Soren...
this sort of shite is what got Abbott and fellow crims into power...
yep  ...... mugs like you. Angry



BTW, if there are so many more visa overstayers than boat arrivals - why do the boaties bother with the boats?

Why not buy a plane ticket?? A lot cheaper and safer and thy can still claim asylum.


You need a valid visa to step onto a plane.  The Australian Government will not issue one to anybody who looks like they're going to claim Asylum. 



How come there are more asylum seekers who arrived on planes than on boats, then?





The ones who come by plane are illegal immigrants, not asylum seekers.

They aren't fleeing anything: they just want to live in Australia.

Asylum seekers are the honest ones, and illegal immigrants (coming by plane) are the dishonest ones.
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Sparky
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Re: Australian "values"
Reply #929 - Dec 17th, 2013 at 1:14pm  
greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 1:11pm:
Soren wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 12:47pm:
|dev|null wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 10:28am:
Soren wrote on Dec 17th, 2013 at 7:47am:
Emma wrote on Dec 16th, 2013 at 9:36pm:
utter crap Soren...
this sort of shite is what got Abbott and fellow crims into power...
yep  ...... mugs like you. Angry



BTW, if there are so many more visa overstayers than boat arrivals - why do the boaties bother with the boats?

Why not buy a plane ticket?? A lot cheaper and safer and thy can still claim asylum.


You need a valid visa to step onto a plane.  The Australian Government will not issue one to anybody who looks like they're going to claim Asylum. 



How come there are more asylum seekers who arrived on planes than on boats, then?





The ones who come by plane are illegal immigrants, not asylum seekers.

They aren't fleeing anything: they just want to live in Australia.

Asylum seekers are the honest ones, and illegal immigrants (coming by plane) are the dishonest ones.


So mode of transport determines if somebody is in fear of their life? alrighty then.
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