Australian Politics Forum - Australian "values"

Life_goes_on

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 4772
400kms south of Yobsville, Qld
Gender: male

Re: Australian "values"
Reply #960 - Dec 18^th, 2013 at 2:07pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 18^th, 2013 at 9:09am:

Grendel wrote on Dec 17^th, 2013 at 8:38pm:

Life_goes_on wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 11:45pm:

Quote:

Of course ILLEGAL ENTRY etc is mentioned several times in Article 31... you failed to quote it all.

The convention was written with mainly Europe in mind where refugees crossed borders via land routes.

In Australia's case (an island), you're only entering the country illegally if you're on land that's considered Australian territory and you've bypassed the whole customs/immigration process. You're an illegal arrival if you do that.

At sea it's a different matter. You can legally pass through Australian waters without the required docs (passport, visa etc). If you happen across or call up an Australian naval or customs vessel and decide you want to seek asylum and you're happy to put yourself under their care for the trip to shore, then you're not entering Australia illegally.

It's only illegal if you've got your feet on solid ground (i.e. you've entered Australia) and you've bypassed customs and immigration (the exception being DMZs at international airports). Just being in Australian waters doesn't count as far as the definition for illegal entry goes.

Well that doesn't seem to be the actual case.
However being in Australian territory without the proper visa or identification makes you an Illegal Entry... according to the UN... claiming Asylum keeps you from being prosecuted for being an illegal... Roll Eyes

until your status is verified. Grin

If they enter Australia by boat, they're "unauthorised maritime arrivals".

Then, they become "unlawful non-citizens" because of that entry.

The terms "an illegal" or "illegals" do not exist in any official capacity. They are merely terms used by ignorant bigots in order to demonise legal asylum seekers.

I wasn't sure of the correct terminology, but what I was trying to say is that simply being in Australian waters isn't against any law - you're not even an unauthorised maritime arrival.

You're not even an unauthorised maritime arrival if you get taken ashore by the authorities after claiming asylum.

The only unauthorised maritime arrivals are the ones who recently turned up on Christmas Island and that other boat load who made it ashore in WA.

Back to top

"You're just one lucky motherf-cker" - Someone, 5th February 2013

Num num num num.

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Australian "values"
Reply #961 - Dec 18^th, 2013 at 3:29pm

This just in:

ITV 'banned references to Scousers and drunken Australians for being racist'

ITV banned a comedy show’s creators from using the word “Scouser” or describing a drunk character as Australian because the terms had "racial" connotations, a veteran scriptwriter has claimed.

Laurence Marks, the co-creator of the classic sitcom Birds of a Feather, said it was “odd” that British broadcasters would allow four-letter tirades on air but baulked at traditional humour playing on national and regional stereotypes.

He described having a “huge row” with ITV executives after he submitted a script that jokingly referred to a person as Australian.

The comedy writer said he was told that it was “unacceptable” racial stereotyping to say somebody was Australian and drunk.

On another occasion, he said he and his writing partner Maurice Gran fell foul of rules prohibiting the use of the word “Scouser” to describe someone from Liverpool.

Grin

Back to top

IP Logged

|dev|null

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male

Re: Australian "values"
Reply #962 - Dec 18^th, 2013 at 3:51pm

Soren wrote on Dec 18^th, 2013 at 7:10am:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 17^th, 2013 at 10:28am:

Soren wrote on Dec 17^th, 2013 at 7:47am:

BTW, if there are so many more visa overstayers than boat arrivals - why do the boaties bother with the boats?

Why not buy a plane ticket?? A lot cheaper and safer and thy can still claim asylum.

You need a valid visa to step onto a plane. The Australian Government will not issue one to anybody who looks like they're going to claim Asylum. So, it becomes a catch-22 situation. You can't fly here to claim Asylum with a visa, you cannot get a visa, if you're likely to claim Asylum. The only other way to get here is by boat and so the Australian government is actually creating the market for the people smugglers. Cheesy

Soooo.... why are there so many asylum seekers arriving by plane?

Perhaps because they are lying about the intention and have fooled the Australian authorities as to their bone fides? Because they're better educated and smarter than those who get fooled by the people smugglers? Why don't you ask them? Cheesy

Back to top

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

IP Logged

BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: Australian "values" Reply #963 - Dec 18^th, 2013 at 4:24pm We are now anti-intellectual snobs!
Back to top	Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) IP Logged

|dev|null

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male

Re: Australian "values"
Reply #964 - Dec 18^th, 2013 at 7:02pm

Soren wrote on Dec 18^th, 2013 at 3:29pm:

This just in:

ITV 'banned references to Scousers and drunken Australians for being racist'

ITV banned a comedy show’s creators from using the word “Scouser” or describing a drunk character as Australian because the terms had "racial" connotations, a veteran scriptwriter has claimed.

Laurence Marks, the co-creator of the classic sitcom Birds of a Feather, said it was “odd” that British broadcasters would allow four-letter tirades on air but baulked at traditional humour playing on national and regional stereotypes.

He described having a “huge row” with ITV executives after he submitted a script that jokingly referred to a person as Australian.

The comedy writer said he was told that it was “unacceptable” racial stereotyping to say somebody was Australian and drunk.

On another occasion, he said he and his writing partner Maurice Gran fell foul of rules prohibiting the use of the word “Scouser” to describe someone from Liverpool.

Grin

And this has what, exactly to do with "Australian values"?

Looks to me like your grasping at, well something but I'm not sure what! Cheesy

Back to top

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

IP Logged

|dev|null

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male

Re: Australian "values"
Reply #965 - Dec 18^th, 2013 at 7:12pm

Grendel wrote on Dec 17^th, 2013 at 8:40pm:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 17^th, 2013 at 10:25am:

Grendel wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 9:46pm:

Article 31 of the Convention states:
Quote:

The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their

illegal entry

or presence.

Of course ILLEGAL ENTRY etc is mentioned several times in Article 31... you failed to quote it all.
So I guess they are after all ILLEGAL ENTRANTS after all eh...

Squirm, squirm, twist, twist, another foot with a hole shot in it. Grin

They are not, under Australian law illegal immigrants until their application for Asylum are denied. That you need to be taken through the legal process...again...simply shows that you are prejudiced to understand how it works...again. Cheesy

Failed English at school did you?
I didn't. Grin

Failed Law at Uni did you?
I never tried but I understand it better than you. Under Australian Law they are not illegal immigrants. The Convention refers to their method of entry, not their legal status. Two different things. Cheesy

Back to top

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

IP Logged

|dev|null

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male

Re: Australian "values"
Reply #966 - Dec 18^th, 2013 at 7:14pm

Emma wrote on Dec 17^th, 2013 at 9:58pm:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 17^th, 2013 at 10:28am:

Soren wrote on Dec 17^th, 2013 at 7:47am:

Emma wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 9:36pm:

utter crap Soren...
this sort of shite is what got Abbott and fellow crims into power...
yep ...... mugs like you. Angry

BTW, if there are so many more visa overstayers than boat arrivals - why do the boaties bother with the boats?

Why not buy a plane ticket?? A lot cheaper and safer and thy can still claim asylum.

You need a valid visa to step onto a plane. The Australian Government will not issue one to anybody who looks like they're going to claim Asylum. So, it becomes a catch-22 situation. You can't fly here to claim Asylum with a visa, you cannot get a visa, if you're likely to claim Asylum. The only other way to get here is by boat and so the Australian government is actually creating the market for the people smugglers. Cheesy

OH WELL SAID HB.!!

If only some others could think as clearly.

Aw shucks. Isn't hard if you use both eyes to see with! Grin

Back to top

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

IP Logged

\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: Australian "values" Reply #967 - Dec 18^th, 2013 at 7:15pm Grendel wrote on Dec 18^th, 2013 at 5:36am: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gcA0ZuKGkI8/S0iXdwgPDLI/AAAAAAAAFdw/CYJYbsVycq4/s400/h... Brian's right, your MO is obvious for everybody to see.
Back to top	"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013. "we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions." Freediver, 2007. IP Logged

|dev|null

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male

Re: Australian "values"
Reply #968 - Dec 18^th, 2013 at 7:25pm

Soren wrote on Dec 18^th, 2013 at 1:27pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 18^th, 2013 at 12:02pm:

This decreases their chances of being tracked down by authorities from their country of origin.

They are hiding their identities FROM US! If they were targeted by the Taliban or SAVAK, the ASIO boys could do a much better job of giving them a new ID.
Or do you think the Talibs and the SAVAK guys are after semi-literate goatherd hiding in Tasmania?

You are not thinking, you are fantasising.

They are doing what they told by the people smugglers. As you note, they may be an "semi-literate goatherd", how are they going to know any different? You assume that these Asylum Seekers are as well educated as the average Australia and understand the ramifications of everything they are told to do by the people smugglers. Why? Because it makes it easier for you to erect a strawman rather than look at the reality of the situation. All they know is that they've had their lives threatened by the Taliban. They have been told there is safety in Australia. They have decided to accept what the people smugglers say because they know no better. Stop being a bigot. Cheesy

Back to top

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 139030
Gender: male

Re: Australian "values"
Reply #969 - Dec 18^th, 2013 at 7:45pm

|dev|null wrote on Dec 18^th, 2013 at 7:25pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 18^th, 2013 at 1:27pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 18^th, 2013 at 12:02pm:

This decreases their chances of being tracked down by authorities from their country of origin.

They are hiding their identities FROM US! If they were targeted by the Taliban or SAVAK, the ASIO boys could do a much better job of giving them a new ID.
Or do you think the Talibs and the SAVAK guys are after semi-literate goatherd hiding in Tasmania?

You are not thinking, you are fantasising.

They are doing what they told by the people smugglers. As you note, they may be an "semi-literate goatherd", how are they going to know any different? You assume that these Asylum Seekers are as well educated as the average Australia and understand the ramifications of everything they are told to do by the people smugglers. Why? Because it makes it easier for you to erect a strawman rather than look at the reality of the situation. All they know is that they've had their lives threatened by the Taliban. They have been told there is safety in Australia. They have decided to accept what the people smugglers say because they know no better. Stop being a bigot.

If there's one thing that we can all agree on, Soren included, it's that that is never going to happen.

Back to top

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Australian "values"
Reply #970 - Dec 18^th, 2013 at 9:19pm

|dev|null wrote on Dec 18^th, 2013 at 7:25pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 18^th, 2013 at 1:27pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 18^th, 2013 at 12:02pm:

This decreases their chances of being tracked down by authorities from their country of origin.

They are hiding their identities FROM US! If they were targeted by the Taliban or SAVAK, the ASIO boys could do a much better job of giving them a new ID.
Or do you think the Talibs and the SAVAK guys are after semi-literate goatherd hiding in Tasmania?

You are not thinking, you are fantasising.

They are doing what they told by the people smugglers. As you note, they may be an "semi-literate goatherd", how are they going to know any different? You assume that these Asylum Seekers are as well educated as the average Australia and understand the ramifications of everything they are told to do by the people smugglers. Why? Because it makes it easier for you to erect a strawman rather than look at the reality of the situation. All they know is that they've had their lives threatened by the Taliban. They have been told there is safety in Australia. They have decided to accept what the people smugglers say because they know no better. Stop being a bigot. Cheesy

We have more than enough out of work goatherds.

Back to top

IP Logged

Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Australian "values" Reply #971 - Dec 18^th, 2013 at 9:49pm Soren /?? darlink your rhetoric is really getting tired. I don't read much on this net, but you are a champion for the unoppressed.. yawn
Back to top	live every day IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Australian "values"
Reply #972 - Dec 18^th, 2013 at 10:14pm

Thank you. Oh, the oppressed.
We have been there for 10 years, helping them to help themselves to a country where they don't oppress each other so terribly. Where they talk through their differences, have a go at making a functioning society out of themselves.

10 Years. And what's going to happen? They will revert back to the bearded, grizzly monsters.

We have been trying to pull them up for 10 years. But sh!tting on each other's plates is all they know and that's what they will continue to do when we are gone.

Back to top

IP Logged

Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Australian "values" Reply #973 - Dec 18^th, 2013 at 10:19pm I said the 'freakin' UNoppressed OK..??
Back to top	live every day IP Logged

greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139030 Gender:	Re: Australian "values" Reply #974 - Dec 18^th, 2013 at 11:05pm Emma wrote on Dec 18^th, 2013 at 10:19pm: I said the 'freakin' UNoppressed OK..?? Soren is blinded by bigotry.
Back to top	IP Logged