Australian Politics Forum - LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?

perceptions_now

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Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Reply #90 - Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:18am

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:56am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 6:19am:

Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.

Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one.

It means, we teach the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge"& allow the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.

That is science!

What these LNP LOONS want, is a non sense/science!

As has been reported,
these LNP LOONS want mainstream climate science to be cut from the state's school curriculum.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75238 Gender:	Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake? Reply #91 - Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:39am Liberal policy is if they don't like the message they deny it and shoot the messenger ....
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Doctor Jolly Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3808	Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake? Reply #92 - Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:48am John Smith wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:39am: Liberal policy is if they don't like the message they deny it and shoot the messenger .... Book burners, the lot of them.
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tonegunman1

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Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Reply #93 - Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:30am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:10am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 5:40pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 4:41pm:

97% of scientists in the field of climate science confirm the data that man is causing climate change.

Climate "science" is relatively new so I'm not quite sure how...

You're "not quite sure". Of course you're not, you are not a expert in this field.

Quote:

Yes I can ...and oh so very easily.

Quote:

Your survey defines a "scientist" as anyone whowho have walked past a university. Dodgy. Manipulative. Belief-driven.

Well it ain't my survey ....

You're quoting it to justify your belief. The survey was flawed. It found a number of people with some vague connection to "science" and called them a scientist to falsely make themselves more credible.
Got a degree in computer science, sign our petition. Thats the level of candidates.

Well no...but I don't call myself doctor without any justification either (and your far from jolly...or is that a euphemism for fat) when you cannot even understand that the survey I used was not my choice it was what YOU based your percentage of support on. Dimwit.

When I was saying "I'm not sure" in relation to "climatologists" give me the name of one of the signatories with a Bachelor of Climatology...just one...not too hard a ask for someone of your intellectual capacity in the climate academic world? Then we can have a read of their papers and listen to their expert opinion after finding out who supplied their funding. You know when tobacco was funding research in universities the vast majority of the research was positive...go figure.

And you don't quote anything to justify your belief...please!

I read all that I can from all sides of the debate and I form my own opinion...based on what has been put up. You put up crap and expect me to say it's tasty and say it does not have holes in it. Well it does...irrefutable holes, distortions and exaggerations.

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tonegunman1

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Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Reply #94 - Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:35am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:48am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:39am:

Liberal policy is if they don't like the message they deny it and shoot the messenger ....

Book burners, the lot of them.

I think you'll find book burners are selectively destructive...which describes you more than anyone else.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Reply #95 - Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:41am

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:30am:

Well no...but I don't call myself doctor without any justification either

You call yourself gunman, what does that say about you?

Quote:

When I was saying "I'm not sure" in relation to "climatologists" give me the name of one of the signatories with a Bachelor of Climatology...just one...not too hard a ask for someone of your intellectual capacity in the climate academic world? Then we can have a read of their papers and listen to their expert opinion after finding out who supplied their funding. You know when tobacco was funding research in universities the vast majority of the research was positive...go figure.

the 97% is from scientists who are actively involved in climate science. These come from general degrees (physics, etc) who have later specialised in climate studies. The 97% are actively publishing in peer reviewed journals, trying to gain better and better understanding of the issue.

Your survey you love to quote is from anyone who has a vague connection with science, and most have not published anything in a peer reviewed journal, or even studdied the climate data in any depth.

Ask yourself. Who are the vested interests who would benefit for portraying a hoax ? Solar panel manufacturers ? (They are dwafted by many 1000 to 1 in size, by the fossil fuel industry). Its a totally laughable accusation.

If you are going to equate the debate to tobacco, climate scientists are firmly in the medical camp warning of the dangers of tobacco.

Quote:

I read all that I can from all sides of the debate and I form my own opinion...

You certainly do not to that. You elevate belief over logic. Hence why deniers are often categorised along with religous ideolgists.

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tonegunman1

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Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Reply #96 - Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:44am

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:18am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:56am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 6:19am:

Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.

Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one.

It means, we teach the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge"& allow the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.

That is science!

What these LNP LOONS want, is a non sense/science!

As has been reported,
these LNP LOONS want mainstream climate science to be cut from the state's school curriculum.

Sorry...theories are not facts...until they are proven.
The current best scientific "known knowledge" must be able to withstand criticism and scrutiny...if it can't and is to be judged by a lower standard then just say so.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Reply #97 - Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:49am

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:44am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:18am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:56am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 6:19am:

Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.

Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one.

It means, we teach the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge"& allow the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.

That is science!

What these LNP LOONS want, is a non sense/science!

As has been reported,
these LNP LOONS want mainstream climate science to be cut from the state's school curriculum.

Sorry...theories are not facts...until they are proven.
The current best scientific "known knowledge" must be able to withstand criticism and scrutiny...if it can't and is to be judged by a lower standard then just say so.

Science is never proven. Are you advocating suspenstion of all science to be taught in schools.?

I assume replace by daily prayers . "Oh god, please stop the climate warming".

Grin

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tonegunman1

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Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Reply #98 - Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:59am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:41am:

[quote author=6D76777C7E6C7774787728190 link=1342357146/93#93 date=1342744234]
Well no...but I don't call myself doctor without any justification either

When I was saying "I'm not sure" in relation to "climatologists" give me the name of one of the signatories with a Bachelor of Climatology...just one...not too hard a ask for someone of your intellectual capacity in the climate academic world? Then we can have a read of their papers and listen to their expert opinion after finding out who supplied their funding. You know when tobacco was funding research in universities the vast majority of the research was positive...go figure.

the 97% is from scientists who are actively involved in climate science.

I take that as a big old NO to any Degrees in climatology.

Quote:

Your survey you love to quote is from anyone who has a vague connection with science, and most have not published anything in a peer reviewed journal, or even studdied the climate data in any depth.

I can however spell.

Quote:

If you are going to equate the debate to tobacco, climate scientists are firmly in the medical camp warning of the dangers of tobacco.

You know this how...got a link to the published paper...bit outside their field though...don't ya think?
I suppose that hasn't stopped them before publishing papers they don't even have a qualification for...tsk, tsk, tsk.

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Doctor Jolly Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3808	Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake? Reply #99 - Jul 20^th, 2012 at 11:04am gunman, I think you should read and comprehend my posts before replying. All the questions or points you raise have already been answered/refuted already. No point going around in circles.
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tonegunman1

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Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Reply #100 - Jul 20^th, 2012 at 11:07am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:49am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:44am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:18am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:56am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 6:19am:

Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.

Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one.

It means, we teach the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge"& allow the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.

That is science!

What these LNP LOONS want, is a non sense/science!

As has been reported,
these LNP LOONS want mainstream climate science to be cut from the state's school curriculum.

Sorry...theories are not facts...until they are proven.
The current best scientific "known knowledge" must be able to withstand criticism and scrutiny...if it can't and is to be judged by a lower standard then just say so.

Science is never proven. Are you advocating suspenstion of all science to be taught in schools.?

I assume replace by daily prayers . "Oh god, please stop the climate warming".

Grin

.

I am advocating that climate "science" has the same standards applied. Everything has to withstand scrutiny. Perceptions seemed to be unsure of the difference between facts and theories...
You're defecting...come on degree in climatology...just one.

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tonegunman1 Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 427	Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake? Reply #101 - Jul 20^th, 2012 at 11:10am Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 11:04am: gunman, I think you should read and comprehend my posts before replying. All the questions or points you raise have already been answered/refuted already. No point going around in circles. Well...no you havn't.
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perceptions_now

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Perth WA
Gender: male

Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Reply #102 - Jul 20^th, 2012 at 11:50am

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 11:07am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:49am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:44am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:18am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:56am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 6:19am:

Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.

Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one.

It means, we teach the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge"& allow the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.

That is science!

What these LNP LOONS want, is a non sense/science!

As has been reported,
these LNP LOONS want mainstream climate science to be cut from the state's school curriculum.

Sorry...theories are not facts...until they are proven.
The current best scientific "known knowledge" must be able to withstand criticism and scrutiny...if it can't and is to be judged by a lower standard then just say so.

Science is never proven. Are you advocating suspenstion of all science to be taught in schools.?

I assume replace by daily prayers . "Oh god, please stop the climate warming".

Grin

.

I am advocating that climate "science" has the same standards applied. Everything has to withstand scrutiny. Perceptions seemed to be unsure of the difference between facts and theories...
You're defecting...come on degree in climatology...just one.

How is teaching the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge" & allowing the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories, anything other than best scientific practice?

That's how we progressed from the dark ages & burning people at the stake, to having today's modern society. But, there are always exceptions & Politicians are one large exception!

And, if the above is best practice, then how can these LNP LOONS be achieving best practice, IF they delete the best know knowledge of the time, from the curriculum?

What these LNP LOONS are proposing has nothing to do with learning, teaching or science!

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perceptions_now

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Perth WA
Gender: male

Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Reply #103 - Jul 20^th, 2012 at 2:31pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 11:50am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 11:07am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:49am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:44am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:18am:

tonegunman1 wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:56am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 6:19am:

Would this mean that Queensland Science teachers can't mention the experiments of John Tyndall in 1859 which established the warming properties of CO2 and other greenhouse gases, or our satellites that show a drop in the outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) absorb energy. Or perhaps they shouldn't mention the measurements that show an increase in atmospheric CO2 and a warming planet.

Is this the beginning of our Orwellian nightmare. Ministry of Education, indeed.

Gee...do we also tell them that in the last 20 thousand years that sea levels have increased 120 metres but the rate has actually slowed considerably. Do we also tell them that sea level has been historically much, much higher than it is now on average. Do we also tell them that CO2 levels are also well below average historical levels. With a concentration high of about 7000ppm during the Cambrian. The Cambrian was associated with an "explosion of life forms" with the emergence of most major animal phyla. Do we tell them that the ice-core data supports that CO2 lags temperature rise. That on 3 occasions in the last 300K years it has been hotter than it is now (without the burning of fossil fuel or any deforestation) and if we were at the global average during this time most of the planet would perish because of the severe cold and food shortages. Do we also teach that the greatest greenhouse gas is good old H2O as the single largest contributor to global warming. The ability of the oceans to absorb and release heat actually buffers the global climate and makes earth habitable.
So to get the full picture they need all the facts not just notes from a geological eyeblink.
The simple truth is your view is the Orwellian one.

It means, we teach the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge"& allow the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories.

That is science!

What these LNP LOONS want, is a non sense/science!

As has been reported,
these LNP LOONS want mainstream climate science to be cut from the state's school curriculum.

Sorry...theories are not facts...until they are proven.
The current best scientific "known knowledge" must be able to withstand criticism and scrutiny...if it can't and is to be judged by a lower standard then just say so.

Science is never proven. Are you advocating suspenstion of all science to be taught in schools.?

I assume replace by daily prayers . "Oh god, please stop the climate warming".

Grin

.

I am advocating that climate "science" has the same standards applied. Everything has to withstand scrutiny. Perceptions seemed to be unsure of the difference between facts and theories...
You're defecting...come on degree in climatology...just one.

How is teaching the facts, as per the current best scientific "known knowledge" & allowing the students & scientists to prove &/or disprove those theories, anything other than best scientific practice?

That's how we progressed from the dark ages & burning people at the stake, to having today's modern society. But, there are always exceptions & Politicians are one large exception!

And, if the above is best practice, then how can these LNP LOONS be achieving best practice, IF they delete the best know knowledge of the time, from the curriculum?

What these LNP LOONS are proposing has nothing to do with learning, teaching or science!

So Tongue1, you've finally accepted that these LNP LOONS are wrong, in trying to delete the best known knowledge of the time, from the curriculum?

Even Maqqa & Longweekend, wouldn't try to spin that, as being the correct way to go!

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tonegunman1

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Re: LNP loons want to burn science at the Stake?
Reply #104 - Jul 20^th, 2012 at 3:13pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 2:31pm: