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Sir lastnail

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #180 - Jul 29^th, 2012 at 4:59pm

Quantum wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 4:25pm:

China are making 10's of millions of electric cars for under $20,000 today are they? Since I'm an idiot for knowing this it must be common knowledge. Got in proof of these 10's of millions of electric cars for under $20,000 that china are currently making? Not cars over $20,000; or only sold in low numbers; or are hybrids. Where is the proof of china making 10's of millions of electric cars for under $20,000 right now today?

The argument of this thread is that Holden and ford should be making fully electric cars because it can be done cheaply, easily, and will increase their sales now. They don't do it because they are too dumb aparently. Now your saying china are selling cheap, fully electric cars, and are obviously selling in huge volumes. If not, how do you expect Holden and Ford to do it?

By the way, didn't know Holden made Hummers under orders by GM. What a blessing to this forum to have someone of your knowledge of the auto world.

As for the electric Holden, I have seen it in the flesh when it was new. But if I got all my information from short reports on TV, maybe I would know as much as you and would have all the answers to the world's problems.

So what happened to the E-commodore 10 years ago ? 20 mill of tax payers money in R&D flushed down the toilet so that Holden could eventually make cars that nobody wanted !! Holden Commodore is now the 8th most popular car because nobody wants that sh.t anymore.

You can buy a Toyota Camry Hybrid for 30K. All they need to do is put a plug on it. But of course using your twisted reasoning that feature will bump up the price to 60 K Cheesy

LOL

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Quantum

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #181 - Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:15pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 4:59pm:

Quantum wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 4:25pm:

China are making 10's of millions of electric cars for under $20,000 today are they? Since I'm an idiot for knowing this it must be common knowledge. Got in proof of these 10's of millions of electric cars for under $20,000 that china are currently making? Not cars over $20,000; or only sold in low numbers; or are hybrids. Where is the proof of china making 10's of millions of electric cars for under $20,000 right now today?

The argument of this thread is that Holden and ford should be making fully electric cars because it can be done cheaply, easily, and will increase their sales now. They don't do it because they are too dumb aparently. Now your saying china are selling cheap, fully electric cars, and are obviously selling in huge volumes. If not, how do you expect Holden and Ford to do it?

By the way, didn't know Holden made Hummers under orders by GM. What a blessing to this forum to have someone of your knowledge of the auto world.

As for the electric Holden, I have seen it in the flesh when it was new. But if I got all my information from short reports on TV, maybe I would know as much as you and would have all the answers to the world's problems.

So what happened to the E-commodore 10 years ago ? 20 mill of tax payers money in R&D flushed down the toilet so that Holden could eventually make cars that nobody wanted !! Holden Commodore is now the 8th most popular car because nobody wants that sh.t anymore.

You can buy a Toyota Camry Hybrid for 30K. All they need to do is put a plug on it. But of course using your twisted reasoning that feature will bump up the price to 60 K Cheesy

LOL

As always you continue to ignore the discussion, just changing the points over and over again.

You can not just put a plug on a hybrid. Neither the motors or batteries of a standard hybrid are designed to work that way. The motors assist the engine, they can not drive the car themselves in high energy situations. Likewise the battery cannot hold enough charge for any real distance. Cars designed to run in full electric mode have much bigger batteries and motors.

Again, go learn something about cars and stop talking crap.

[By the way, a Holden volt is $60,000. Fact. Not my reasoning or opinion. Not me pulling number out of my arse like some others on this thread. It is a $60,000 car. Deal with it.]

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Sir lastnail

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #182 - Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:23pm

Quantum wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:15pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 4:59pm:

Quantum wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 4:25pm:

China are making 10's of millions of electric cars for under $20,000 today are they? Since I'm an idiot for knowing this it must be common knowledge. Got in proof of these 10's of millions of electric cars for under $20,000 that china are currently making? Not cars over $20,000; or only sold in low numbers; or are hybrids. Where is the proof of china making 10's of millions of electric cars for under $20,000 right now today?

The argument of this thread is that Holden and ford should be making fully electric cars because it can be done cheaply, easily, and will increase their sales now. They don't do it because they are too dumb aparently. Now your saying china are selling cheap, fully electric cars, and are obviously selling in huge volumes. If not, how do you expect Holden and Ford to do it?

By the way, didn't know Holden made Hummers under orders by GM. What a blessing to this forum to have someone of your knowledge of the auto world.

As for the electric Holden, I have seen it in the flesh when it was new. But if I got all my information from short reports on TV, maybe I would know as much as you and would have all the answers to the world's problems.

So what happened to the E-commodore 10 years ago ? 20 mill of tax payers money in R&D flushed down the toilet so that Holden could eventually make cars that nobody wanted !! Holden Commodore is now the 8th most popular car because nobody wants that sh.t anymore.

You can buy a Toyota Camry Hybrid for 30K. All they need to do is put a plug on it. But of course using your twisted reasoning that feature will bump up the price to 60 K Cheesy

LOL

As always you continue to ignore the discussion, just changing the points over and over again.

You can not just put a plug on a hybrid. Neither the motors or batteries of a standard hybrid are designed to work that way. The motors assist the engine, they can not drive the car themselves in high energy situations. Likewise the battery cannot hold enough charge for any real distance. Cars designed to run in full electric mode have much bigger batteries and motors.

Again, go learn something about cars and stop talking crap.

[By the way, a Holden volt is $60,000. Fact. Not my reasoning or opinion. Not me pulling number out of my arse like some others on this thread. It is a $60,000 car. Deal with it.]

And the Toyota Camry Hybrid is 30K here in Australia. And I am not making that up either !! Go figure !!

This whole thread is about Ford Australia going down the tube because people don't want their gas guzzlers whilst its parent company marches forward with electric car technology. Go figure !!

You definitely sound like longweekend with the same stupid brain dead argument he uses of because something is not here today it can't be here tomorrow Sad

And btw the Nissan Leaf is here today !! It's getting great reviews everywhere so put that in your pipe and smoke it.

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longweekend58

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #183 - Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:24pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 5:15pm:

Quantum wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 4:26pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 11:19am:

Quantum wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 9:41am:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 7:59am:

Quote:

What this forum needs is not a "can do mentality", but a reality Mentality. Too many people have all the answers and no knowledge of the auto industry.
This is why they think that everyone explaining the truth of the situation is making excuses.

The time for excuses is over.
You forget that the body, suspension & just about everything else can be the same.
People just pull out the old engine, transmission etc & replace
it all with a brushless electric motor & battery.
It's not that hard mate.
That's why some people can do it in their home garages.

No it can't.

Electric cars have different weight, weight distribution, and if done properly have the electric motors connected directly to the wheels. This requires total suspension redesign.

Electric cars have the batteries as low as possible to keep the COG down, better cooling, and space saving. This needs a completely different chassis as there is no need for an engine but room needed for these batteries.

What you are talking about are nothing but one off garage jobs. The big manufactures do this all the time. They call them concept cars. They cost thousands, sometimes a few million to make. But when ever they do bring them into production they require massive redesign and testing, as well as huge consideration to cost reduction and manufacturing. This is what cost billions to make happen.

These private garage jobs are significantly inferior to proper manufacturer designed electric cars. They are in no way at a mass production level.

Then how do these backyarders get these EV conversions road worthy and registered to drive on Australian roads if they are so inferior ?

http://www.evcapri.com/new/Kearons_EV_Capri_-_100_electric_car_conversion/Blog/B...

Also did this dude get the billions needed to build EV's ??

http://bev.com.au/

Also what about this mob and their converted Commodores ??

http://www.evengineering.com.au/

Like bobby said the time for excuses is well and truly over !!

Because there are different standards from personal to corporate. This is why you can drive a left hand side wheel in Australia with permission, but Toyota could not sell a left hand drive car. This is why you can make a V8 hot rod, but Ford couldn't sell it due to emission controls. This is why you can build a light little roadster, but Holden couldn't due to safety requirements.

There are different rules applied to manufacturers than to garage jobs. Many of the safety, environmental, and quality requirements do not apply to a privately built car. There is also a huge difference between building a one off concept (often built as you go with little in planning) compared to building a car than can be legally mass produced.

Every manufacturer has built concept cars quickly for little money (often under a million dollars). Yet it cost hundred of millions and often billions to turn them into sellable road vehicles.

Do you think they spend all that extra money just for the fun of it? That they would hire 1000 people for 5 years and spend 3, or 4, or 5, or 6 billions dollars, when it could be made by one person in a garage for 10 or 20 thousand dollars. Really?

What on earth are you talking about !!

If backyarders can get EV conversions on the road and registered without spending billions then what's the problem with Holden and Ford ??

They obviously just want the money for the sake of wanting the money Sad

BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO BUY THEM. have you ever even SEEN an allEV on the road?? probably not since that miEV has sold exactly 102 cars. People will buy EVs when they are good enough. in the meantime they will buy what works NOW.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #184 - Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:25pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:23pm:

Quantum wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:15pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 4:59pm:

Quantum wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 4:25pm:

China are making 10's of millions of electric cars for under $20,000 today are they? Since I'm an idiot for knowing this it must be common knowledge. Got in proof of these 10's of millions of electric cars for under $20,000 that china are currently making? Not cars over $20,000; or only sold in low numbers; or are hybrids. Where is the proof of china making 10's of millions of electric cars for under $20,000 right now today?

The argument of this thread is that Holden and ford should be making fully electric cars because it can be done cheaply, easily, and will increase their sales now. They don't do it because they are too dumb aparently. Now your saying china are selling cheap, fully electric cars, and are obviously selling in huge volumes. If not, how do you expect Holden and Ford to do it?

By the way, didn't know Holden made Hummers under orders by GM. What a blessing to this forum to have someone of your knowledge of the auto world.

As for the electric Holden, I have seen it in the flesh when it was new. But if I got all my information from short reports on TV, maybe I would know as much as you and would have all the answers to the world's problems.

So what happened to the E-commodore 10 years ago ? 20 mill of tax payers money in R&D flushed down the toilet so that Holden could eventually make cars that nobody wanted !! Holden Commodore is now the 8th most popular car because nobody wants that sh.t anymore.

You can buy a Toyota Camry Hybrid for 30K. All they need to do is put a plug on it. But of course using your twisted reasoning that feature will bump up the price to 60 K Cheesy

LOL

As always you continue to ignore the discussion, just changing the points over and over again.

You can not just put a plug on a hybrid. Neither the motors or batteries of a standard hybrid are designed to work that way. The motors assist the engine, they can not drive the car themselves in high energy situations. Likewise the battery cannot hold enough charge for any real distance. Cars designed to run in full electric mode have much bigger batteries and motors.

Again, go learn something about cars and stop talking crap.

[By the way, a Holden volt is $60,000. Fact. Not my reasoning or opinion. Not me pulling number out of my arse like some others on this thread. It is a $60,000 car. Deal with it.]

And the Toyota Camry Hybrid is 30K here in Australia. And I am not making that up either !! Go figure !!

This whole thread is about Ford Australia going down the tube because people don't want their gas guzzlers whilst its parent company marches forward with electric car technology. Go figure !!

You definitely sound like longweekend with the same stupid brain dead argument he uses of because something is not here today it can't be here tomorrow Sad

And btw the Nissan Leaf is here today !! It's getting great reviews everywhere so put that in your pipe and smoke it.

have you bought one yet arch-hypocrite???

no of course not. and almost nobody else is buying one either. surprise, surpsise. very expensive car with limited range and performance.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #185 - Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:26pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 4:59pm:

Quantum wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 4:25pm:

China are making 10's of millions of electric cars for under $20,000 today are they? Since I'm an idiot for knowing this it must be common knowledge. Got in proof of these 10's of millions of electric cars for under $20,000 that china are currently making? Not cars over $20,000; or only sold in low numbers; or are hybrids. Where is the proof of china making 10's of millions of electric cars for under $20,000 right now today?

The argument of this thread is that Holden and ford should be making fully electric cars because it can be done cheaply, easily, and will increase their sales now. They don't do it because they are too dumb aparently. Now your saying china are selling cheap, fully electric cars, and are obviously selling in huge volumes. If not, how do you expect Holden and Ford to do it?

By the way, didn't know Holden made Hummers under orders by GM. What a blessing to this forum to have someone of your knowledge of the auto world.

As for the electric Holden, I have seen it in the flesh when it was new. But if I got all my information from short reports on TV, maybe I would know as much as you and would have all the answers to the world's problems.

So what happened to the E-commodore 10 years ago ? 20 mill of tax payers money in R&D flushed down the toilet so that Holden could eventually make cars that nobody wanted !! Holden Commodore is now the 8th most popular car because nobody wants that sh.t anymore.

You can buy a Toyota Camry Hybrid for 30K. All they need to do is put a plug on it. But of course using your twisted reasoning that feature will bump up the price to 60 K Cheesy

LOL

a hybrid is not an electorc car. an in fact for any serious distance it isnt an EV at all.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #186 - Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:27pm

Bobby. wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 11:04am:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 10:34am:

In the worlds big cities where people spend most of their time locked up in traffic jambs on small trips electric cars will find their footing.
From this and the rising price and scarcity of fossil fuels new technology will develop so within a few decades we will have electric vehicles that travel far greater distances and systems of recharging and battery swapping that make the general use of these vehicles more widely accepted.

Thanks Adelcrow,
Poor Nail has been pilloried from pillar to post over electric cars.
It's good that someone else can see the benefit of such cars.

Basically it's a conspiracy by oil companies to keep their profits
with gas guzzling cars.

hey moron... if you read adelcrow's post with any actual comprehension he said that EVs will ONE DAY do what they promis but for now, they are rubbish.

try comprehension next time, idiot.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #187 - Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:29pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:24pm:

[
BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO BUY THEM. have you ever even SEEN an allEV on the road?? probably not since that miEV has sold exactly 102 cars. People will buy EVs when they are good enough. in the meantime they will buy what works NOW.

Yes they are buying Toyota Camry Hybrids for 30K Wink

speak of the devil. Quantums alter ego is back as predicted Cheesy

LOL

Quantum = madweekend Cheesy

LOL

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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longweekend58

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #188 - Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:30pm

Bobby. wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 11:05am:

repeat:

Quote:

The idea is that an electric car can be made for under $20,000
available to the mass market.
It will be a car meant for short trips - under 100 kilometers on one charge.
The energy to charge the battery will hopefully come from
electric solar cells installed on the roofs of houses.
These solar cells will provide energy into the national grid
during the day & energy will be drawn out at night
to recharge the car.

This is already possible now.
Backyarders can build systems like this so multi billion dollar
corporations can do it too.
I want my tax money to go towards projects like that
not corporate welfare to Ford for their low quality gas guzzling rubbish.

Best points - no more addiction to the fossil fuel bowser.
No more giant taxes to pay for fuel -
basically free energy & low maintenance costs.

Bad points - cars only suitable for short up to 100k trips.
Since 99% of all car trips are under 100km it will suit
most people most of the time.

not tru is is effectively 100km PER DAY. now tell me how many people never do more than that or even who regularly dont do more than that. who wants to buy a car that can NEVER go more than 100km in any 24 hour period?? almost nobodye - as evidenced by the car sales for EVs - pitiful

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Sir lastnail

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #189 - Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:32pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:27pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 11:04am:

adelcrow wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 10:34am:

In the worlds big cities where people spend most of their time locked up in traffic jambs on small trips electric cars will find their footing.
From this and the rising price and scarcity of fossil fuels new technology will develop so within a few decades we will have electric vehicles that travel far greater distances and systems of recharging and battery swapping that make the general use of these vehicles more widely accepted.

Thanks Adelcrow,
Poor Nail has been pilloried from pillar to post over electric cars.
It's good that someone else can see the benefit of such cars.

Basically it's a conspiracy by oil companies to keep their profits
with gas guzzling cars.

hey moron... if you read adelcrow's post with any actual comprehension he said that EVs will ONE DAY do what they promis but for now, they are rubbish.

try comprehension next time, idiot.

Nissan Leaf does everything a commuter needs and it is here today Wink

It got a great write up in Silicon Chip magazine this month Wink

It will come down in price just as the Toyota Hybrids and flat screen TV's did but of course that fact eludes a small minded idiot such yourself !!

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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longweekend58

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #190 - Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:34pm

Bobby. wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 11:59pm:

Nail,
Quote:

So the yanks have got it wrong have they ??

And how much would a Falcon and Commodore be without the billions in corporate welfare paid out to them over years ?

And what happened to the infamous Mitsubishi 380 ?? 600 million down the drain on a cheap petrol car that nobody wanted in the end.

Nail,
This Quantum guy is probably Longweekend with a new name.
He has the same negative ideas.

actually he knows what he is talking about which is why you confuse him with me. you two gay stupidos just embarrass yourselves repeatedly.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #191 - Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:41pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:24pm:

[
BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO BUY THEM. have you ever even SEEN an allEV on the road?? probably not since that miEV has sold exactly 102 cars. People will buy EVs when they are good enough. in the meantime they will buy what works NOW.

Yes they are buying Toyota Camry Hybrids for 30K Wink

speak of the devil. Quantums alter ego is back as predicted Cheesy

LOL

Quantum = madweekend Cheesy

LOL

hybrids are not EVs moron. when you can actaully come up with a mass-selling EV that is actually afforable then come back. in the meantime you are just embararssing yourself.

andyhow... the real question is...

HAVE YOU BOUGHT AN EV YET TOENAIL????

plenty to choose from now so no excuse and you even lied to us once to say you had an order in for one but like everything else you say... it was a lie.

so have you bought an EV yet loser or are you just another of the tyre-kcikers driving multi-colour panel commodores in love with cars you will never afford?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: FORD.R.I.P. Reply #192 - Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:46pm I thought not... lastnail the hypocrite with his donkey, booby!
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 104805 Melbourne Gender:	Re: FORD.R.I.P. Reply #193 - Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:47pm I think Nail will have a similar mind to me - he will keep his luxury car until an all electric vehicle is mass produced by the Chinese & sells for under $20,000. Don't expect Ford to do that.
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Sir lastnail

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #194 - Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:57pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:41pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 5:24pm:

[
BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO BUY THEM. have you ever even SEEN an allEV on the road?? probably not since that miEV has sold exactly 102 cars. People will buy EVs when they are good enough. in the meantime they will buy what works NOW.

Yes they are buying Toyota Camry Hybrids for 30K Wink

speak of the devil. Quantums alter ego is back as predicted Cheesy

LOL

Quantum = madweekend Cheesy

LOL

hybrids are not EVs moron. when you can actaully come up with a mass-selling EV that is actually afforable then come back. in the meantime you are just embararssing yourself.

andyhow... the real question is...

HAVE YOU BOUGHT AN EV YET TOENAIL????

plenty to choose from now so no excuse and you even lied to us once to say you had an order in for one but like everything else you say... it was a lie.

so have you bought an EV yet loser or are you just another of the tyre-kcikers driving multi-colour panel commodores in love with cars you will never afford?

but like an EV a hybrid has an electric drive train with batteries and motor controller. It's not a leap of faith to see the connection between an EV, a hybrid and a plugin hybrid but of course you are stiull having difficulty.

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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