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Avram Horowitz

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #510 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:27am

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:25am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:13am:

That is not practical is it?
Many people travel short distances everyday but what about weekends of long drive to see family, vacation etc?
What if you want one car?

It's not a matter of being practical.
We can't just keep burning fossil fuels forever.
We'll destroy the world.

Instead of trading in your old petrol car & getting nearly nothing for it -
you keep it & buy a battery car.

99% of the time that's all you'll need.

Yes it is about practical.
If you dont have a practical product then you will not make people buy it.
They will buy the petroleum car.

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Bobby.

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #511 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:32am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:27am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:25am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:13am:

That is not practical is it?
Many people travel short distances everyday but what about weekends of long drive to see family, vacation etc?
What if you want one car?

It's not a matter of being practical.
We can't just keep burning fossil fuels forever.
We'll destroy the world.

Instead of trading in your old petrol car & getting nearly nothing for it -
you keep it & buy a battery car.

99% of the time that's all you'll need.

Yes it is about practical.
If you dont have a practical product then you will not make people buy it.
They will buy the petroleum car.

Not me - I'm going to buy a battery car when they are proven & under $20,000.
I'll keep my petrol car for long trips.

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perceptions_now

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #512 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:45am

bobbythefap1 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:12am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:08am:

I have not seen people suggest a solution yet.

Only criticize and bring bad news.

Anybody can do that, what is your suggestion to replace a petrol car that serves both long and short term distances and also meets demands of more energy for the world?

Crematorium powered cars.

One of the Boom future industries is the Funeral industry, as some 2 billion Baby Boomers, Bust their life time expectations, over the next 20 years or so.

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gold_medal

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #513 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:12pm

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 6:34pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:25pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 2:19pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 1:00pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 7^th, 2012 at 11:51pm:

Honestly perceptions, its like talking to a deaf man. You simply dont hear. yes prices have risen. Amazing, isnt it! Can you possibly imagine a world in which proices actually rise? FACT. petrol prices have risen below the CPI for the last 20 years. Simpletons however who have the memory of a goldfish with the intellect to match remember only the price from last weeks discount level. SIX YEARS ago, I was paying $1.80/liter for 98 octane and now I am paying $1.58. Amazing isnt it.

it doesnt matter what anyone says to you, you are deaf dumb and blind to any new information. You will go and live in your hole pretending that oil has run out while the rest of use drive our cars fuelled by the oil fields and technology you just pretend dont exist. The same way people like you said we'd run out of fuel in 1985 and 2000.

Tar sands, shale oil... they are just words to you but there is no way you will ever change your view because you lack the capacity to learn. vast new oil fields are opening up because the price of oil on the global market is high. It is almost as if you know absolutely nothing at all about economics while quoting 'supply and demand' yet knowing nothing about beyond a year 7 understanding.

Go dig a hole and shout that the end of the world is coming. And let us just laugh. I certianly am already doing so.

Longy,

As I have been saying, Crude Oil Prices have gone from US$10 in the late 1990's, to nearly US$150 in 2008, then back to around US$40 in 2009 and now they are back to around US$100.

The big Oil fields such as Ghawar & Burgan in the Middle East are either at or already in their declining years & the North Sea is well into its Decline phase.

This is really basic stuff, which you continue to avoid, as being the main reason for the big Price increases -
IT IS BASIC ECONOMICS
IT IS SUPPLY & DEMAND!!!

As for your new Energy sources, you continue to say nothing about how to avoid those being Net Energy Sinks!

When/IF you start making some informed comments about these issues, I may consider you something other than a "Comedian".

you are a stupid old fool, perceptions. It doesnt matter what anyone says to you, your tune remains the same. IM sure your car has an 8track player and had to have indicators retro-fitted. is there anythign in your head that takes note of TODAY and how things are changing. You keep talking about net energy sinks trying to pretend that you know what it means. For starters, do you think the oil companies might have a comment or two to make on that? Do you really think that they are spending billions on oil recovery that costs more to extract thatthey will recoup? If you beleive that then you really are a very silly person.

Maintain your denial. dig another room in your bomb shelter. You seem incapable of acknoweldgeing that it is 2012 instead of 1985.

Longy,
1) You still haven't given any informed comments on the following, despite numerous requests.
"As I have been saying, Crude Oil Prices have gone from US$10 in the late 1990's, to nearly US$150 in 2008, then back to around US$40 in 2009 and now they are back to around US$100.

The big Oil fields such as Ghawar & Burgan in the Middle East are either at or already in their declining years & the North Sea is well into its Decline phase.

This is really basic stuff, which you continue to avoid, as being the main reason for the big Price increases -
IT IS BASIC ECONOMICS
IT IS SUPPLY & DEMAND!!!

As for your new Energy sources, you continue to say nothing about how to avoid those being Net Energy Sinks!"
Could it possible be that IF you did, it would further expose your apparent lack of knowledge?

2) Have you "officially" given away the Longweekend ID?
If so, would you like me to close it down, for you?
Perhaps, you may "wish" to consider posting under the ID of Rip Van Winkle, given your apparent lengthy sleepovers in "Fairyland"?
After all, you have just woken up, since going to sleep when Crude Oil was still plentiful and that's quite a while ago. In fact, its back in the days of "sleeping Beauty" (Ha! Ha!) & back in the days of the Exponential Growth Fairy, who (as is apparent) died some time ago, may it RIP.

Btw, as has been pointed out previously, there is a spellcheck facility on this site, it really doesn't take too long Longy and it may help you appear a little better?

prices of oil have risen and fallen sharply and will do so again. so what is your point? Is this breathtakingly astonishing news to anyone? Is oil the first product or service to have massive rises and falls in cost?

You have still not ONCE addressed the issue of new oil fields improved technology at all just saying 'energy sinks' and thinking that is an answer. it's not. Or is it that somehow you know a great deal more than oil companies who are currently exploring and retrieiving such oil?

You cannot have a discussion on peak oil if you simply and obstinately refuse to accept any changes in oil supply or technology in the last 20 years as you have done. It renders your conclusions patently absurd.

So at the risk of inviting yet another repetition of your cut-and-past replies can you finally, just once, address improved technology, newly viable oil fields and *shock horror* unpredictable events that may render your deeply deeply depressive predictions invalid? Or are you going to pretend that you are the oracle and everyone else is wrong?

I would find it incredible, if there was any thinking person, who is not astonished that the worlds number 1 Energy source increased by some 1500% in Price in the space of some 10 years!

At 10% average annual increase (inflation), costs would roughly double each 7 years, which means at 10% inflation Oil would have gone from $10 to let's say $27, but Oil went from $10 P/B to $147 in the space of 10 years!

But, this is not just any product, IT IS THE WORLDS PREMIER PRODUCT, IT IS WHAT LITERALLY & FACTUALLY DRIVES THE WORLD & THE WORLDS ECONOMY AND YOU DON'T FIND ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THIS?

To use one of your favorite words, you are an idiot!

And in that self-same period of time (selectively chosen of course!) did the price of petrol go up by 15 times? no. It went up by around 50%. Now if all of you arguments are going to be based on selective reporting (and of course they are) you discredit yourself. Why not compare the price of oil since 1970 to now instead of picking up a mid-recession low point as your starting point. And in case the concept sounds foreign to you it is call 'critical analysis'.

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gold_medal

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #514 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:14pm

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 6:43pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:46pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:04pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 2:24pm:

Perceptions - the movement in the price of oil per barrell in the last half decade has been driven in large part by speculation on the currency markets - much more so than traditional supply and demand curve.

We, along with our competitors, explained this in our lodged accounts and profit annoucements to Wall Street.

There's significant investment in other areas of technology - principally geo-thermal - but the fact is that petroleum will remain the number 1 source of energy for a significant period to come.

I agree that Crude Oil will remain in the top 2 Energy Source positions, for most usual needs.

Oil & Coal will continue to dominate, because there are very few other real alternatives that can go full scale on a Global basis and the few that are about also have some problems. So, we are between a rock & a hard place, particularly in a Global Economy where the standard "Economic & Political Rule number 1", IS GROWTH.

I also agree that currency markets have had some impact on various issues, including but not limited to, Crude Oil Pricing and in particular in the lead up to and since the GFC started in 2007.

However, there was also a large movement in Oil Prices starting in the late 1990's, when Oil went from around US$10 to an all time high of US$147 just prior to the GFC stock market collapse in 2008 and the majority of that related to "Supply/Demand" perceptions of the broader markets.

There has also been a great deal of market manipulation of currencies & markets in general, by Central Banks, with the US Fed & the ECB leading the way.

In fact, at most points in the modern Economics era and in particular the last 100 years, the Central Banks (in particular the US Fed) would have eaten 99% of all Economic hiccups before breakfast.

However, on this occasion, with a mixture of Demographics, Energy Supply/Demand problems & Climate Change leading the way to monstrous Debt problems & more, much more, and whilst they are trying hard, THEY HAVE NO CHANCE OF WINNING!

And ultimately that is your position - doom and gloom and no facts can possibly alter it. Your position isnt rational, it is paranoid.

You use the phrase "doom & gloom, whereas my position is that of realist!

These Central banks would normally have fixed minor market problems, but these are not minor, nor usual, they are a once in history combination of factors, which you are, as usual, blind to, Rip, because you are still asleep in a bygone era!

thats what all good doom-and-gloom merchants call themselves - realists. The trouble is they are very rarely right yet continue to call themselves 'realists' when the proper word is 'false prophet' or the even more accurate 'fool'.

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gold_medal

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #515 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:17pm

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 6:44pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:28pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 3:04pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 2:24pm:

Perceptions - the movement in the price of oil per barrell in the last half decade has been driven in large part by speculation on the currency markets - much more so than traditional supply and demand curve.

We, along with our competitors, explained this in our lodged accounts and profit annoucements to Wall Street.

There's significant investment in other areas of technology - principally geo-thermal - but the fact is that petroleum will remain the number 1 source of energy for a significant period to come.

I agree that Crude Oil will remain in the top 2 Energy Source positions, for most usual needs.

Oil & Coal will continue to dominate, because there are very few other real alternatives that can go full scale on a Global basis and the few that are about also have some problems. So, we are between a rock & a hard place, particularly in a Global Economy where the standard "Economic & Political Rule number 1", IS GROWTH.

I also agree that currency markets have had some impact on various issues, including but not limited to, Crude Oil Pricing and in particular in the lead up to and since the GFC started in 2007.

However, there was also a large movement in Oil Prices starting in the late 1990's, when Oil went from around US$10 to an all time high of US$147 just prior to the GFC stock market collapse in 2008 and the majority of that related to "Supply/Demand" perceptions of the broader markets.

There has also been a great deal of market manipulation of currencies & markets in general, by Central Banks, with the US Fed & the ECB leading the way.

In fact, at most points in the modern Economics era and in particular the last 100 years, the Central Banks (in particular the US Fed) would have eaten 99% of all Economic hiccups before breakfast.

However, on this occasion, with a mixture of Demographics, Energy Supply/Demand problems & Climate Change leading the way to monstrous Debt problems & more, much more, and whilst they are trying hard, THEY HAVE NO CHANCE OF WINNING!

The Great depression comes to mind as a spectacular dis-proof to that notion. And of course the stagflation of the 70s, severe recession of 80s and of course the GFC.

It is actually a proof, not a dis-proof!

truly staggering... you claim the central banks would easily eat all major financial problems in the last 100 years and claim the great Depression as proof? Proof of what? that the banks spectaculary failed and that central banks totally ignored the signs and frankly. did pretty much everything wrong?

How on any location in this universe the Great Depression an example of the Central banks ability to 'eat financial crises for breakfast'?

I cant wait for the next installment of your increasingly ludicrous explanation.

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 104725 Melbourne Gender:	Re: FORD.R.I.P. Reply #516 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:17pm Gold/Longy, Quote: thats what all good doom-and-gloom merchants call themselves - realists. The trouble is they are very rarely right yet continue to call themselves 'realists' when the proper word is 'false prophet' or the even more accurate 'fool'. Or they can be like you - a luddite & a polluter of our planet.
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gold_medal

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #517 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:19pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 7:54pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 2:09pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 1:01pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 12:06pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 11:45am:

Yet you talk about electric vehicles that are being developed and going on sale in the USA but not in Australia?

So why mention them? You haven't got them mate....

Wink

By the way, did you know my company holds more than 25 patent rights on electric vehicle development?

Just so you know.....

But they are on sale in Australia now. The Nissan Leaf and Mitsubishi iMiev is now available in Australia and GM will be flogging it's plugin hybrid here in October. The reason why I keep mentioning EV's is because we keep throwing good money after bad at the likes of ford and holden and they keep making obsolete sh.t that nobody wants anymore. That's why i keep mentioning it Sad

And your electric vehicle patents are not worth a hat full of dogs tits if you don't sell a product that uses them !!

Also you keep mentioning how petrol is cheaper in the USA but you fail to mention that the average wage is much lower than in Australia so of course they can't afford to pay what we pay for petrol Wink

So what EV do you drive? based on your abusive evangelistic promotion of then, it would be reasonable to assume you drive an EV? Correct?

Listen gold_wank that is totally irrelevant just as not being able to talk about the shuttle because I don't own one. What have I stated about EV's that is not correct ? Stick to the facts instead of introducing strawman fallacies. You really are a time wasting troll on these forums Sad

The last time an actual EV owner who owns a Toyota RAV4-EV and runs the website www.evnut.com came onto this forum you were rude and abrupt to him and weren't interested in debating with him in an intelligent way so don't bloody well tell me how the whole argument of EV's hinges on me owning and driving one Sad

Go pull your head in you sanctimonious piece of sh.t !!

Hi Nail,
it seems that if you don't own an electric vehicle you have no right to talk about them.
In that case it includes Longweekend/Gold.

What was Longweekend's reason to change his name to Gold_medal?

Has he got a gold medal in fallacious arguments?
(in this case the straw man.)

ACtually nail berates everyone for not owning an EV and for even the mere suggestion that they dont want one or that hey dont suit them. And then... he refuses to buy one himself when his regular compaint is about the petrol costs of commuting which is EXACTLY where EVs have an advantage.

it is not just hypocrisy, you could almost insert this in a dictionary as a case history definition.

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gold_medal

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #518 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:23pm

Kat wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 11:34pm:

Just my take...excuse me if I post a bit slow, I'm busy struggling into my asbestos suit....

IMO, Ford and Holden have three choices...

1/ Keep going as they are, and eventually go into receivership.

2/ Convert ALL current production to run on CNG ONLY, and
develop a VIABLE electric car (NOT a hybrid). Govt could help
(but won't) by mandating CNG-only cars be built OR imported.

3/ Dump ALL 'consumer' models and concentrate on high-quality,
high-performance limited-edition stuff.

4/ Look to throw-off the US inflence/power/shares and become
independent.. Easier for Holden, as it's an Aus company, Ford isn't.

I'd opt for #2 in the short/medium term, and aim at #3 & 4 as the long-term goal.

**Checks asbestos suit, looks for cover.**

You need more than asbestos to protect yourself from the well-deserved flames from that post.

2 is almost beyond contempt, based on the idea that CNG is a 100% replacement. After all, we already have that ability and most dont do it so why not???

3 is possibly the quickest route to bankruptcy possible. in a very small market, producing niche models like the HSV/FPV range is already a loss-maker but is used to get customers to lust after the high-end and buy the low/med range. Eliminate the low/med range and all you have is loss making.

4. holden isnt a company it is GM-H which is a wholly-owned american subsidiary of GM

feel the flames....

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Prevailing

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #519 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:24pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:17pm:

Gold/Longy,
Quote:

thats what all good doom-and-gloom merchants call themselves - realists.
The trouble is they are very rarely right yet continue to call themselves 'realists' when the proper word is 'false prophet' or the even more accurate 'fool'.

Or they can be like you - a luddite & a polluter of our planet.

And you are a fascist and we are going to scrap the carbon tax and sue your freakin' 'rse off for abuse of the parliamentary system and constitutional law...we will take you for everything you have pal...we will pursue you relentlessly through the court giving you no rest and we will never stop...

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The Government Supports Gynocide
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JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5471 Gender:	Re: FORD.R.I.P. Reply #520 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:25pm shut the bugger up about 'suing' people, you're not going to do sh!t
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gold_medal

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #521 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:26pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 10:42am:

Kat wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 11:34pm:

Just my take...excuse me if I post a bit slow, I'm busy struggling into my asbestos suit....

IMO, Ford and Holden have three choices...

1/ Keep going as they are, and eventually go into receivership.

2/ Convert ALL current production to run on CNG ONLY, and
develop a VIABLE electric car (NOT a hybrid). Govt could help
(but won't) by mandating CNG-only cars be built OR imported.

3/ Dump ALL 'consumer' models and concentrate on high-quality,
high-performance limited-edition stuff.

4/ Look to throw-off the US inflence/power/shares and become
independent.. Easier for Holden, as it's an Aus company, Ford isn't.

I'd opt for #2 in the short/medium term, and aim at #3 & 4 as the long-term goal.

**Checks asbestos suit, looks for cover.**

How about giving a rebate for buying an electric car like they do in the US. Even better make it a rebate for an electric car only made here Wink

Also Holden is not an Australian company anymore. It is owned by GMC and takes it's orders from US headquarters Sad

Europe (typical!) has the worlds biggest subsidies on EVs and they still can barely give them away. The VOlt IS subsidies heavily and is a very poor seller. It sold 7000 last year out of a market of 16million.

Subsidy and low price are no alternative for functionality. It would be like exalting over you 90" LCD Tv that you pad $500 for but you can only use it between 4am and 5am and if the sun hasnt been shining you get a 12" picture only.

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Prevailing Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7169 Stop Men	Re: FORD.R.I.P. Reply #522 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:28pm JC Denton wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:25pm: shut the bugger up about 'suing' people, you're not going to do sh!t And you are going to stop me how? You will; lose even the shirt on your back dipstick - you are screwed we will chase you down -we are the Nazi hunters and we are coming for you....
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gold_medal

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #523 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:28pm

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 12:08pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 6:34pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:25pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 2:19pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 1:00pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 7^th, 2012 at 11:51pm:

Honestly perceptions, its like talking to a deaf man. You simply dont hear. yes prices have risen. Amazing, isnt it! Can you possibly imagine a world in which proices actually rise? FACT. petrol prices have risen below the CPI for the last 20 years. Simpletons however who have the memory of a goldfish with the intellect to match remember only the price from last weeks discount level. SIX YEARS ago, I was paying $1.80/liter for 98 octane and now I am paying $1.58. Amazing isnt it.

it doesnt matter what anyone says to you, you are deaf dumb and blind to any new information. You will go and live in your hole pretending that oil has run out while the rest of use drive our cars fuelled by the oil fields and technology you just pretend dont exist. The same way people like you said we'd run out of fuel in 1985 and 2000.

Tar sands, shale oil... they are just words to you but there is no way you will ever change your view because you lack the capacity to learn. vast new oil fields are opening up because the price of oil on the global market is high. It is almost as if you know absolutely nothing at all about economics while quoting 'supply and demand' yet knowing nothing about beyond a year 7 understanding.

Go dig a hole and shout that the end of the world is coming. And let us just laugh. I certianly am already doing so.

Longy,

As I have been saying, Crude Oil Prices have gone from US$10 in the late 1990's, to nearly US$150 in 2008, then back to around US$40 in 2009 and now they are back to around US$100.

The big Oil fields such as Ghawar & Burgan in the Middle East are either at or already in their declining years & the North Sea is well into its Decline phase.

This is really basic stuff, which you continue to avoid, as being the main reason for the big Price increases -
IT IS BASIC ECONOMICS
IT IS SUPPLY & DEMAND!!!

As for your new Energy sources, you continue to say nothing about how to avoid those being Net Energy Sinks!

When/IF you start making some informed comments about these issues, I may consider you something other than a "Comedian".

you are a stupid old fool, perceptions. It doesnt matter what anyone says to you, your tune remains the same. IM sure your car has an 8track player and had to have indicators retro-fitted. is there anythign in your head that takes note of TODAY and how things are changing. You keep talking about net energy sinks trying to pretend that you know what it means. For starters, do you think the oil companies might have a comment or two to make on that? Do you really think that they are spending billions on oil recovery that costs more to extract thatthey will recoup? If you beleive that then you really are a very silly person.

Maintain your denial. dig another room in your bomb shelter. You seem incapable of acknoweldgeing that it is 2012 instead of 1985.

Longy,
1) You still haven't given any informed comments on the following, despite numerous requests.
"As I have been saying, Crude Oil Prices have gone from US$10 in the late 1990's, to nearly US$150 in 2008, then back to around US$40 in 2009 and now they are back to around US$100.

The big Oil fields such as Ghawar & Burgan in the Middle East are either at or already in their declining years & the North Sea is well into its Decline phase.

This is really basic stuff, which you continue to avoid, as being the main reason for the big Price increases -
IT IS BASIC ECONOMICS
IT IS SUPPLY & DEMAND!!!

As for your new Energy sources, you continue to say nothing about how to avoid those being Net Energy Sinks!"
Could it possible be that IF you did, it would further expose your apparent lack of knowledge?

2) Have you "officially" given away the Longweekend ID?
If so, would you like me to close it down, for you?
Perhaps, you may "wish" to consider posting under the ID of Rip Van Winkle, given your apparent lengthy sleepovers in "Fairyland"?
After all, you have just woken up, since going to sleep when Crude Oil was still plentiful and that's quite a while ago. In fact, its back in the days of "sleeping Beauty" (Ha! Ha!) & back in the days of the Exponential Growth Fairy, who (as is apparent) died some time ago, may it RIP.

Btw, as has been pointed out previously, there is a spellcheck facility on this site, it really doesn't take too long Longy and it may help you appear a little better?

prices of oil have risen and fallen sharply and will do so again. so what is your point? Is this breathtakingly astonishing news to anyone? Is oil the first product or service to have massive rises and falls in cost?

You have still not ONCE addressed the issue of new oil fields improved technology at all just saying 'energy sinks' and thinking that is an answer. it's not.

Or is it that somehow you know a great deal more than oil companies who are currently exploring and retrieiving such oil?

You cannot have a discussion on peak oil if you simply and obstinately refuse to accept any changes

in oil supply or technology in the last 20 years as you have done. It renders your conclusions patently absurd.

So at the risk of inviting yet another repetition of your cut-and-past replies can you finally, just once, address improved technology, newly viable oil fields and *shock horror* unpredictable events that may render your deeply deeply depressive predictions invalid? Or are you going to pretend that you are the oracle and everyone else is wrong?

I would find it incredible, if there was any thinking person, who is not astonished that the worlds number 1 Energy source increased by some 1500% in Price in the space of some 10 years!

At 10% average annual increase (inflation), costs would roughly double each 7 years, which means at 10% inflation Oil would have gone from $10 to let's say $27, but Oil went from $10 P/B to $147 in the space of 10 years!

But, this is not just any product, IT IS THE WORLDS PREMIER PRODUCT, IT IS WHAT LITERALLY & FACTUALLY DRIVES THE WORLD & THE WORLDS ECONOMY AND YOU DON'T FIND ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THIS?

To use one of your favorite words, you are an idiot!

Longy,
No answer to a Price inflation of 1500% over 10 years, hey?

Btw, just because YOU don't regard my continued answer to your new Energy sources of Tar Sands & Shale Oil, as an answer, doesn't make it so.

The fact is that your 2 new sources produce Energy at an EROEI of less than 5 to 1, whilst the older conventional Oil sources once produced an EROEI of 150 to 1 and still produce at 35 to 1. This means that the spare Energy capacity, which was once available, to achieve Productivity gains & grow a Global Economy, simply is no longer available!

However and as I have also previously said, these new sources are simply incapable of scaling up Production, to meet the increased needs of a Growing Global Population & Economy.

Nor can these new sources ever hope to garner the sort of Productions levels achieved via "Conventional" Oil, it is simply not possible!

Finally, I do agree with your following comment -

You cannot have a discussion on peak oil if you simply and obstinately refuse to accept any changes

Which is exactly what YOU consistently do!

WORK or EMPLOYMENT - a concept that eludes you as much as the idea of change does. Not ONCE have you considered that oil companies have very long term views and have expectations that the fields they have now that are only marginally viable will become far more profitable with the new technology that is still coming.

Your predictions totally exclude any possiblity of changes in those numbers you repeatedly quote while clearly not understanding them.

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gold_medal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3897 Gender:	Re: FORD.R.I.P. Reply #524 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:29pm Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:08am: Quote: Apparently, Longy doesn't think so? Longy doesn't seem to be posting anymore. Look up 'employment' While you are at it look up 'family' and 'having a life'.
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