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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30088 Gender:	Re: FORD.R.I.P. Reply #555 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 1:27pm OK gold_muppet LOL
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Sir lastnail

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #556 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 1:30pm

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 1:20pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 11:29am:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:55am:

What is this? 'proving my point' day? You spend endless days abusing and berating anyone and everyone who doesnt 100% agree with you - a position which says we should all be using EVs even though you refuse to buy one yourself.

The ironic thing is, your reason for not buying an EV is the same as everyone elses. Too expensive and not good enough yet. As has been stated many times, the choice of EV or ICE is economic and practical. At the moments EVs cost way too much and are a very poor substitute in functionaility for petrol vehicles. So why isanyone - including you - surprised that they dont sell well? Paying more for less has never been a great marketing slogan.

read what I write properly and stop spouting the same old drivel. I have NEVER stated that everyone should be driving EV's. I have stated that EV's should be made available for people to buy instead of being supressed by vested interests Sad

Regarding the cost of an EV, until you can explain why a Toyota Hybrid camry sells for 30K and the GM Volt hybrid sells for 60K then your argument is totally fallacious so stop parroting the sam old sh.t about the cost of EV's. The low cost of the Toyota Camry hybrid blows all of your economic arguments right out of the water.

You are still proving my point. EVs ARE available right now, today. Theres a small range to choose from. But you continue to moan and groan about why there are not more which of course is because people like YOU dont buy them.

Try again and see which other point of mind you prove next time. But it will be lastnail or booby that responds. You are both the same person.

NO I continue to moan about the fact that tax payers are forced to dole out 100's of millions to Ford and Holden so they can keep making obsolete junk that nobody really wants anymore when their counterparts in the states are working on the latest EV's and plugin hybrids !!

Why are you so thick that I have to keep repeating myself Sad

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 104688 Melbourne Gender:	Re: FORD.R.I.P. Reply #557 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 1:31pm Quote: But it will be lastnail or booby that responds. You are both the same person. No we're not. You have a cheek to say that Longweekend. Your cover has been blown by my clever detective work - hypocrite.
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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30088 Gender:	Re: FORD.R.I.P. Reply #558 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 1:37pm Bobby. wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 1:31pm: Quote: But it will be lastnail or booby that responds. You are both the same person. No we're not. You have a cheek to say that Longweekend. Your cover has been blown by my clever detective work - hypocrite. no only is it a deceitful sock muppet it's also a hypocrite
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perceptions_now

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #559 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:34pm

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:55am:

What is this? 'proving my point' day? You spend endless days abusing and berating anyone and everyone who doesnt 100% agree with you - a position which says we should all be using EVs even though you refuse to buy one yourself.

The ironic thing is, your reason for not buying an EV is the same as everyone elses. Too expensive and not good enough yet. As has been stated many times, the choice of EV or ICE is economic and practical. At the moments EVs cost way too much and are a very poor substitute in functionaility for petrol vehicles. So why isanyone - including you - surprised that they dont sell well? Paying more for less has never been a great marketing slogan.

Longy,
Well, I must say, I'm impressed!

I would have said, it was nearly impossible for anyone to post 37.5 average posts, every day.

But, you've done better, much better, you've posted 37.5 absolute drivel posts, every day, since you stopped being Longy (well sort of stopped).

Oh& you will be pleased, as I also find myself agreeing with your words for a change, as I truly do agree that "You spend endless days abusing and berating anyone and everyone who doesnt 100% agree with you"

Btw, have you figured out yet, why Crude Oil Prices increased 1500% in 10 years?

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gold_medal

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #560 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 5:24pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 1:30pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 1:20pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 11:29am:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:55am:

What is this? 'proving my point' day? You spend endless days abusing and berating anyone and everyone who doesnt 100% agree with you - a position which says we should all be using EVs even though you refuse to buy one yourself.

The ironic thing is, your reason for not buying an EV is the same as everyone elses. Too expensive and not good enough yet. As has been stated many times, the choice of EV or ICE is economic and practical. At the moments EVs cost way too much and are a very poor substitute in functionaility for petrol vehicles. So why isanyone - including you - surprised that they dont sell well? Paying more for less has never been a great marketing slogan.

read what I write properly and stop spouting the same old drivel. I have NEVER stated that everyone should be driving EV's. I have stated that EV's should be made available for people to buy instead of being supressed by vested interests Sad

Regarding the cost of an EV, until you can explain why a Toyota Hybrid camry sells for 30K and the GM Volt hybrid sells for 60K then your argument is totally fallacious so stop parroting the sam old sh.t about the cost of EV's. The low cost of the Toyota Camry hybrid blows all of your economic arguments right out of the water.

You are still proving my point. EVs ARE available right now, today. Theres a small range to choose from. But you continue to moan and groan about why there are not more which of course is because people like YOU dont buy them.

Try again and see which other point of mind you prove next time. But it will be lastnail or booby that responds. You are both the same person.

NO I continue to moan about the fact that tax payers are forced to dole out 100's of millions to Ford and Holden so they can keep making obsolete junk that nobody really wants anymore when their counterparts in the states are working on the latest EV's and plugin hybrids !!

Why are you so thick that I have to keep repeating myself Sad

Contrary to your repeated adnauseum complaints, petrol cars are the entirety of what people buy for transport. The support given to car companies is nothing compared to the support given to other industries and groups. At the moment, the technology for a viable effective and affordable EV simply doesnt exist. The tru waste of money would be in doing what the USA govt has done in giving GM a billion dollars for its Volt development only to have the thing barely sell. Or liek Europe spending a fortune in subsidies to get people to buy EVs and still they wont.

Like it or not, the question about EVs is quite simple: economics and functionality. Until EVs are economic and do what people want (drive places when they want to actually drive) then they will be a niche seller and nothering more. Ranting and raving about government funds isnt making something that doesnt exists magically appear. No one else can build these things economically either. Teslas great car is uber-expensive and the batteries are still sold at a major loss. There is some distance to go before anyone - including you - is going to buy one.

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gold_medal

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #561 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 5:45pm

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:34pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:55am:

What is this? 'proving my point' day? You spend endless days abusing and berating anyone and everyone who doesnt 100% agree with you - a position which says we should all be using EVs even though you refuse to buy one yourself.

The ironic thing is, your reason for not buying an EV is the same as everyone elses. Too expensive and not good enough yet. As has been stated many times, the choice of EV or ICE is economic and practical. At the moments EVs cost way too much and are a very poor substitute in functionaility for petrol vehicles. So why isanyone - including you - surprised that they dont sell well? Paying more for less has never been a great marketing slogan.

Longy,
Well, I must say, I'm impressed!

I would have said, it was nearly impossible for anyone to post 37.5 average posts, every day.

But, you've done better, much better, you've posted 37.5 absolute drivel posts, every day, since you stopped being Longy (well sort of stopped).

Oh& you will be pleased, as I also find myself agreeing with your words for a change, as I truly do agree that "You spend endless days abusing and berating anyone and everyone who doesnt 100% agree with you"

Btw, have you figured out yet, why Crude Oil Prices increased 1500% in 10 years?

And have you worked out yet that quoting an artificially low start point for your graph, rather than stretch it back 20 years where it was HIGHER, is intellectually bereft?

Anyone can make an argument that is nonsense based on a small subset of data within a large series. I could just as easily 'prove' that oil prices are dropping by using another segment of the same data.

But I do notice that you failed (again) to reply as to why petrol prices themselves have failed to rised by 1500% in that same period of time and instead rose by only 60% or slightly LESS than CPI.

Try arguing the whole argument and not the 'conspiracy angle'.

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« Last Edit: Aug 12^th, 2012 at 7:01pm by gold_medal »

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Sir lastnail

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #562 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 7:50pm

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 5:24pm:

Contrary to your repeated adnauseum complaints, petrol cars are the entirety of what people buy for transport. The support given to car companies is nothing compared to the support given to other industries and groups. At the moment, the technology for a viable effective and affordable EV simply doesnt exist. The tru waste of money would be in doing what the USA govt has done in giving GM a billion dollars for its Volt development only to have the thing barely sell. Or liek Europe spending a fortune in subsidies to get people to buy EVs and still they wont.

Like it or not, the question about EVs is quite simple: economics and functionality. Until EVs are economic and do what people want (drive places when they want to actually drive) then they will be a niche seller and nothering more. Ranting and raving about government funds isnt making something that doesnt exists magically appear. No one else can build these things economically either. Teslas great car is uber-expensive and the batteries are still sold at a major loss. There is some distance to go before anyone - including you - is going to buy one.

So why can't you tell us why Toyota can sell it's Camry Hybrid for 30K but Holden has to sell its Cruze hybrid for twice the price ?? Any reason knowing very well that people are NOT going to pay 60K for a Holden Cruze of any variety !!

Maybe when you can answer that without being a tool you will be able to answer your own stupid chicken and egg questions.

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gold_medal

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #563 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 7:54pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 7:50pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 5:24pm:

Contrary to your repeated adnauseum complaints, petrol cars are the entirety of what people buy for transport. The support given to car companies is nothing compared to the support given to other industries and groups. At the moment, the technology for a viable effective and affordable EV simply doesnt exist. The tru waste of money would be in doing what the USA govt has done in giving GM a billion dollars for its Volt development only to have the thing barely sell. Or liek Europe spending a fortune in subsidies to get people to buy EVs and still they wont.

Like it or not, the question about EVs is quite simple: economics and functionality. Until EVs are economic and do what people want (drive places when they want to actually drive) then they will be a niche seller and nothering more. Ranting and raving about government funds isnt making something that doesnt exists magically appear. No one else can build these things economically either. Teslas great car is uber-expensive and the batteries are still sold at a major loss. There is some distance to go before anyone - including you - is going to buy one.

So why can't you tell us why Toyota can sell it's Camry Hybrid for 30K but Holden has to sell its Cruze hybrid for twice the price ?? Any reason knowing very well that people are NOT going to pay 60K for a Holden Cruze of any variety !!

Maybe when you can answer that without being a tool you will be able to answer your own stupid chicken and egg questions.

who is talking about one particular hybrid? You do this all the time. when you get beaten in a debate you move it to another area or topic to somehow try and convince people you are clever. It isnt working. You look ever sillier changing tack to the price of a hybrid - which is an exercise in pointlessness - when the discusison has been on fully EVs.

Let's face it, you dont WANT and EV. You just want to whinge anc complain about something because your own life is so pathetic. Man up and stick with the topic! Defend your position with passion and evidence. but for now all you do is yell, scream and generally look like an idiot for refusing to buy an EV yourself while criticising everyone else for not doing so.

Bobby is the ONLY person who supports you - which is why everyone thinks you and he are the same.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #564 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:04pm

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 7:54pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 7:50pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 5:24pm:

Contrary to your repeated adnauseum complaints, petrol cars are the entirety of what people buy for transport. The support given to car companies is nothing compared to the support given to other industries and groups. At the moment, the technology for a viable effective and affordable EV simply doesnt exist. The tru waste of money would be in doing what the USA govt has done in giving GM a billion dollars for its Volt development only to have the thing barely sell. Or liek Europe spending a fortune in subsidies to get people to buy EVs and still they wont.

Like it or not, the question about EVs is quite simple: economics and functionality. Until EVs are economic and do what people want (drive places when they want to actually drive) then they will be a niche seller and nothering more. Ranting and raving about government funds isnt making something that doesnt exists magically appear. No one else can build these things economically either. Teslas great car is uber-expensive and the batteries are still sold at a major loss. There is some distance to go before anyone - including you - is going to buy one.

So why can't you tell us why Toyota can sell it's Camry Hybrid for 30K but Holden has to sell its Cruze hybrid for twice the price ?? Any reason knowing very well that people are NOT going to pay 60K for a Holden Cruze of any variety !!

Maybe when you can answer that without being a tool you will be able to answer your own stupid chicken and egg questions.

who is talking about one particular hybrid? You do this all the time. when you get beaten in a debate you move it to another area or topic to somehow try and convince people you are clever. It isnt working. You look ever sillier changing tack to the price of a hybrid - which is an exercise in pointlessness - when the discusison has been on fully EVs.

Let's face it, you dont WANT and EV. You just want to whinge anc complain about something because your own life is so pathetic. Man up and stick with the topic! Defend your position with passion and evidence. but for now all you do is yell, scream and generally look like an idiot for refusing to buy an EV yourself while criticising everyone else for not doing so.

Bobby is the ONLY person who supports you - which is why everyone thinks you and he are the same.

Since there is only a handful of cars in Australia with electric drive trains I ask you again for the 100th time.

Why does the Holden Cruze Hybrid sell for 30K more than the Toyota Camry Hybrid ??

Don't you think that Holden could be making this hybrid car here and selling it for the same price as Toyota ?

Please explain muppet ??

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Bobby.

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #565 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:11pm

Longy/Gold,
Quote:

Bobby is the ONLY person who supports you - which is why everyone thinks you and he are the same.

Gold/longy
You're a brute & perceptions is against you.
Always an arumentum ad hominem fallacy -
because you don't have any relevant points.
The fact that Nail doesn't own an EV is a strawman fallacy.

Perceptions: Today at 8:55am
Quote:

you've posted 37.5 absolute drivel posts, every day, since you stopped being Longy (well sort of stopped).

Good post perceptions.
Nail & I were hoping he'd been banned but he came back.

Longy,
Have a look through the thread & see how many other people have supported Nail's clean, green ideas.
You're a luddite - yesterday's man & your ideas are discarded.

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gold_medal

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #566 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:16pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:04pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 7:54pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 7:50pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 5:24pm:

Contrary to your repeated adnauseum complaints, petrol cars are the entirety of what people buy for transport. The support given to car companies is nothing compared to the support given to other industries and groups. At the moment, the technology for a viable effective and affordable EV simply doesnt exist. The tru waste of money would be in doing what the USA govt has done in giving GM a billion dollars for its Volt development only to have the thing barely sell. Or liek Europe spending a fortune in subsidies to get people to buy EVs and still they wont.

Like it or not, the question about EVs is quite simple: economics and functionality. Until EVs are economic and do what people want (drive places when they want to actually drive) then they will be a niche seller and nothering more. Ranting and raving about government funds isnt making something that doesnt exists magically appear. No one else can build these things economically either. Teslas great car is uber-expensive and the batteries are still sold at a major loss. There is some distance to go before anyone - including you - is going to buy one.

So why can't you tell us why Toyota can sell it's Camry Hybrid for 30K but Holden has to sell its Cruze hybrid for twice the price ?? Any reason knowing very well that people are NOT going to pay 60K for a Holden Cruze of any variety !!

Maybe when you can answer that without being a tool you will be able to answer your own stupid chicken and egg questions.

who is talking about one particular hybrid? You do this all the time. when you get beaten in a debate you move it to another area or topic to somehow try and convince people you are clever. It isnt working. You look ever sillier changing tack to the price of a hybrid - which is an exercise in pointlessness - when the discusison has been on fully EVs.

Let's face it, you dont WANT and EV. You just want to whinge anc complain about something because your own life is so pathetic. Man up and stick with the topic! Defend your position with passion and evidence. but for now all you do is yell, scream and generally look like an idiot for refusing to buy an EV yourself while criticising everyone else for not doing so.

Bobby is the ONLY person who supports you - which is why everyone thinks you and he are the same.

Since there is only a handful of cars in Australia with electric drive trains I ask you again for the 100th time.

Why does the Holden Cruze Hybrid sell for 30K more than the Toyota Camry Hybrid ??

Don't you think that Holden could be making this hybrid car here and selling it for the same price as Toyota ?

Please explain muppet ??

who cares??? I dont and you dont coz its not like you will ever buy one! Imagine two cars with vastly different prices!!! what will happen next???

Go buy an EV yourself or just shut up about your never-ending crap.

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gold_medal

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #567 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:17pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:11pm:

Longy/Gold,
Quote:

Bobby is the ONLY person who supports you - which is why everyone thinks you and he are the same.

Gold/longy
You're a brute & perceptions is against you.
Always an arumentum ad hominem fallacy -
because you don't have any relevant points.
The fact that Nail doesn't own an EV is a strawman fallacy.

Perceptions: Today at 8:55am
Quote:

you've posted 37.5 absolute drivel posts, every day, since you stopped being Longy (well sort of stopped).

Good post perceptions.
Nail & I were hoping he'd been banned but he came back.

Longy,
Have a look through the thread & see how many other people have supported Nail's clean, green ideas.
You're a luddite - yesterday's man & your ideas are discarded.

no one besides you and you are him so the score is still zero.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #568 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:21pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:11pm:

Longy/Gold,
Quote:

Bobby is the ONLY person who supports you - which is why everyone thinks you and he are the same.

Gold/longy
You're a brute & perceptions is against you.
Always an arumentum ad hominem fallacy -
because you don't have any relevant points.
The fact that Nail doesn't own an EV is a strawman fallacy.

Perceptions: Today at 8:55am
Quote:

you've posted 37.5 absolute drivel posts, every day, since you stopped being Longy (well sort of stopped).

Good post perceptions.
Nail & I were hoping he'd been banned but he came back.

Longy,
Have a look through the thread & see how many other people have supported Nail's clean, green ideas.
You're a luddite - yesterday's man & your ideas are discarded.

gold_muppet's arguments fall in a heap simply because Toyota can sell a hybrid car locally assembled here for 30K whilst Holden is charging twice the price of Toyota for a fully imported hybrid car when the imported version of the petrol equivalent was only selling here for 20K. Go figure !!

Somehow I don't think gold_muppet can weasle his way out of this one Wink

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: FORD.R.I.P.
Reply #569 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:24pm

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:16pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:04pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 7:54pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 7:50pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 5:24pm:

Contrary to your repeated adnauseum complaints, petrol cars are the entirety of what people buy for transport. The support given to car companies is nothing compared to the support given to other industries and groups. At the moment, the technology for a viable effective and affordable EV simply doesnt exist. The tru waste of money would be in doing what the USA govt has done in giving GM a billion dollars for its Volt development only to have the thing barely sell. Or liek Europe spending a fortune in subsidies to get people to buy EVs and still they wont.

Like it or not, the question about EVs is quite simple: economics and functionality. Until EVs are economic and do what people want (drive places when they want to actually drive) then they will be a niche seller and nothering more. Ranting and raving about government funds isnt making something that doesnt exists magically appear. No one else can build these things economically either. Teslas great car is uber-expensive and the batteries are still sold at a major loss. There is some distance to go before anyone - including you - is going to buy one.

So why can't you tell us why Toyota can sell it's Camry Hybrid for 30K but Holden has to sell its Cruze hybrid for twice the price ?? Any reason knowing very well that people are NOT going to pay 60K for a Holden Cruze of any variety !!

Maybe when you can answer that without being a tool you will be able to answer your own stupid chicken and egg questions.

who is talking about one particular hybrid? You do this all the time. when you get beaten in a debate you move it to another area or topic to somehow try and convince people you are clever. It isnt working. You look ever sillier changing tack to the price of a hybrid - which is an exercise in pointlessness - when the discusison has been on fully EVs.

Let's face it, you dont WANT and EV. You just want to whinge anc complain about something because your own life is so pathetic. Man up and stick with the topic! Defend your position with passion and evidence. but for now all you do is yell, scream and generally look like an idiot for refusing to buy an EV yourself while criticising everyone else for not doing so.

Bobby is the ONLY person who supports you - which is why everyone thinks you and he are the same.

Since there is only a handful of cars in Australia with electric drive trains I ask you again for the 100th time.

Why does the Holden Cruze Hybrid sell for 30K more than the Toyota Camry Hybrid ??

Don't you think that Holden could be making this hybrid car here and selling it for the same price as Toyota ?

Please explain muppet ??

who cares??? I dont and you dont coz its not like you will ever buy one! Imagine two cars with vastly different prices!!! what will happen next???

Go buy an EV yourself or just shut up about your never-ending crap.

Just as I thought you can't possibly offer a rational explanation other than the fact that Holden or GMC doesn't really want to sell that car to anyone here Sad

Instead they will keep holding out their hands for more corporate welfare and try and force people to buy their old junk Sad

Why use new technology to make cars when it is easier to scab money off the tax payers Sad

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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