Australian Politics Forum - How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry

NBNMyths

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Re: How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry
Reply #15 - Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 8:32pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 7:51pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 11:13pm:

I don't have a problem with Govt investing in the automotive industry, sensibly. It employs many people both directly and indirectly and contributes to advanced skills in engineering etc. We are one of only 15 countries worldwide with the capability to produce a vehicle right through from design to production, and we are certainly not alone in providing Govt assistance to automotive industry. IIRC, there are only 2 or 3 car manufacturing countries that don't provide assistance to the industry. The industry in the US, UK, Germany, Sth Africa, Sweden, Thailand (and many more) all get major Govt assistance.

There's nothing wrong with Australian made cars. On a value basis they are the equal of anything else in their class anywhere in the World. The problem is that they are not made by Australian companies and so they have little to gain by maintaining an Australian manufacturing operation. eg: The Falcon and Territory would be perfect for the US market. But they would decimate the sales of the Crown Vic and Exploder, so Ford does not want to export them there.

The key to getting value for the investment dollar is to tie it to exports. Only Toyota currently has a large export program for its vehicles, while Ford (especially) and Holden only have small export programs. The Govt should get serious about the industry and offer them major assistance. But only on the condition that they meet KPIs on exports of the vehicles.

All the vehicle manufacturers now are moving towards a worldwide standardised product line. There is no reason why Ford Australia could not be the production source of, say, the mid-size SUV for the World market (ie the Territory). Toyota have done it, Holden/GM have made a half-hearted attempt, Ford have done nothing.

The Govt needs to give the manufacturers an ultimatum: Take our money and export or get nothing and go away.

RUBBISH !!

What about any all Australian business that gets nothing ?? Are they supposed to take it up the arse each time Holden and Ford gets bailed out ?

And how do countries like Germany have their OWN car industries which export premium quality cars all over the world whilst not having to continuously subsidize foreign car corporations ??

It's about time the Aussie gov grew a pair of balls and told these Holden and Ford scammers to f.ckoff. And they can leave all of their equipment behind because we have well and truly paid for that many times over !! It belongs to the Australian tax payer now.

When Ford, Holden and Toyota get "bailed out" it helps plenty of Australian companies who supply those three. If Ford, Toyota and Holden go, then so do all their suppliers.

The German Government actually give billions to their car industry. In 2009 alone, they provided $1.5 billion Euro to them in assistance.

The German manufacturers have also started offshoring their production to other countries. In fact, "German" cars are currently made in the US, South Africa, Mexico, Argentina, India and China. Starting this year, there are very few BMW or VW models being sold in Australia that are made in Germany.

Automotive industry assistance, worldwide:

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« Last Edit: Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 8:42pm by NBNMyths »

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Prevailing Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7169 Stop Men	Re: How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry Reply #16 - Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 8:49pm What - no Tariffs and import duties? Who is compromising Australian manufacturing standards and laws?
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Sir lastnail

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Re: How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry
Reply #17 - Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 8:53pm

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 8:32pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 7:51pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 11:13pm:

I don't have a problem with Govt investing in the automotive industry, sensibly. It employs many people both directly and indirectly and contributes to advanced skills in engineering etc. We are one of only 15 countries worldwide with the capability to produce a vehicle right through from design to production, and we are certainly not alone in providing Govt assistance to automotive industry. IIRC, there are only 2 or 3 car manufacturing countries that don't provide assistance to the industry. The industry in the US, UK, Germany, Sth Africa, Sweden, Thailand (and many more) all get major Govt assistance.

There's nothing wrong with Australian made cars. On a value basis they are the equal of anything else in their class anywhere in the World. The problem is that they are not made by Australian companies and so they have little to gain by maintaining an Australian manufacturing operation. eg: The Falcon and Territory would be perfect for the US market. But they would decimate the sales of the Crown Vic and Exploder, so Ford does not want to export them there.

The key to getting value for the investment dollar is to tie it to exports. Only Toyota currently has a large export program for its vehicles, while Ford (especially) and Holden only have small export programs. The Govt should get serious about the industry and offer them major assistance. But only on the condition that they meet KPIs on exports of the vehicles.

All the vehicle manufacturers now are moving towards a worldwide standardised product line. There is no reason why Ford Australia could not be the production source of, say, the mid-size SUV for the World market (ie the Territory). Toyota have done it, Holden/GM have made a half-hearted attempt, Ford have done nothing.

The Govt needs to give the manufacturers an ultimatum: Take our money and export or get nothing and go away.

RUBBISH !!

What about any all Australian business that gets nothing ?? Are they supposed to take it up the arse each time Holden and Ford gets bailed out ?

And how do countries like Germany have their OWN car industries which export premium quality cars all over the world whilst not having to continuously subsidize foreign car corporations ??

It's about time the Aussie gov grew a pair of balls and told these Holden and Ford scammers to f.ckoff. And they can leave all of their equipment behind because we have well and truly paid for that many times over !! It belongs to the Australian tax payer now.

When Ford, Holden and Toyota get "bailed out" it helps plenty of Australian companies who supply those three. If Ford, Toyota and Holden go, then so do all their suppliers.

The German Government actually give billions to their car industry. In 2009 alone, they provided $1.5 billion Euro to them in assistance.

The German manufacturers have also started offshoring their production to other countries. In fact, "German" cars are currently made in the US, South Africa, Mexico, Argentina, India and China. Starting this year, there are very few BMW or VW models being sold in Australia that are made in Germany.

Automotive industry assistance, worldwide:

Yes but at the end of the day the profits stay in Germany unlike Australia where the profits are sent back to US head quarters. Where is the investmnet to the Austrealian tax payer ? What shares does the Australian tax payer receive for all of the money it has given these foreign car companies Sad

It would be a lot different if the money that was pored into the car industry here was used to support ALL Australian car companies but it is not. As such companies like Ford and Holden keep the good stuff for themselves in the US whilst giving Australia the scraps that nobody wants anymore.

For example the Holden plugin hybnrid Volt is going to be manufactured in the US exclusively but they don't want to let Holden Australia make it nor does Ford which is working on an all electric car, plugin hybrid etc This is a recipe for a failed car industry in Australia where Ford and Holden will only stay as long as the Government keeps bailing them out just so that they can make outdated petrol guzzlers that nobody wants Sad

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NBNMyths

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Re: How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry
Reply #18 - Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 10:34pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 8:53pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 8:32pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 7:51pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 11:13pm:

I don't have a problem with Govt investing in the automotive industry, sensibly. It employs many people both directly and indirectly and contributes to advanced skills in engineering etc. We are one of only 15 countries worldwide with the capability to produce a vehicle right through from design to production, and we are certainly not alone in providing Govt assistance to automotive industry. IIRC, there are only 2 or 3 car manufacturing countries that don't provide assistance to the industry. The industry in the US, UK, Germany, Sth Africa, Sweden, Thailand (and many more) all get major Govt assistance.

There's nothing wrong with Australian made cars. On a value basis they are the equal of anything else in their class anywhere in the World. The problem is that they are not made by Australian companies and so they have little to gain by maintaining an Australian manufacturing operation. eg: The Falcon and Territory would be perfect for the US market. But they would decimate the sales of the Crown Vic and Exploder, so Ford does not want to export them there.

The key to getting value for the investment dollar is to tie it to exports. Only Toyota currently has a large export program for its vehicles, while Ford (especially) and Holden only have small export programs. The Govt should get serious about the industry and offer them major assistance. But only on the condition that they meet KPIs on exports of the vehicles.

All the vehicle manufacturers now are moving towards a worldwide standardised product line. There is no reason why Ford Australia could not be the production source of, say, the mid-size SUV for the World market (ie the Territory). Toyota have done it, Holden/GM have made a half-hearted attempt, Ford have done nothing.

The Govt needs to give the manufacturers an ultimatum: Take our money and export or get nothing and go away.

RUBBISH !!

What about any all Australian business that gets nothing ?? Are they supposed to take it up the arse each time Holden and Ford gets bailed out ?

And how do countries like Germany have their OWN car industries which export premium quality cars all over the world whilst not having to continuously subsidize foreign car corporations ??

It's about time the Aussie gov grew a pair of balls and told these Holden and Ford scammers to f.ckoff. And they can leave all of their equipment behind because we have well and truly paid for that many times over !! It belongs to the Australian tax payer now.

When Ford, Holden and Toyota get "bailed out" it helps plenty of Australian companies who supply those three. If Ford, Toyota and Holden go, then so do all their suppliers.

The German Government actually give billions to their car industry. In 2009 alone, they provided $1.5 billion Euro to them in assistance.

The German manufacturers have also started offshoring their production to other countries. In fact, "German" cars are currently made in the US, South Africa, Mexico, Argentina, India and China. Starting this year, there are very few BMW or VW models being sold in Australia that are made in Germany.

Automotive industry assistance, worldwide:

Yes but at the end of the day the profits stay in Germany unlike Australia where the profits are sent back to US head quarters. Where is the investmnet to the Austrealian tax payer ? What shares does the Australian tax payer receive for all of the money it has given these foreign car companies Sad

It would be a lot different if the money that was pored into the car industry here was used to support ALL Australian car companies but it is not. As such companies like Ford and Holden keep the good stuff for themselves in the US whilst giving Australia the scraps that nobody wants anymore.

For example the Holden plugin hybnrid Volt is going to be manufactured in the US exclusively but they don't want to let Holden Australia make it nor does Ford which is working on an all electric car, plugin hybrid etc This is a recipe for a failed car industry in Australia where Ford and Holden will only stay as long as the Government keeps bailing them out just so that they can make outdated petrol guzzlers that nobody wants Sad

I would love nothing more than for there to be an Australian car company. But there isn't one, and there never will be. If Ford, Holden and Toyota close shop, then there will be no Australian car industry at all.

It's not true that Australian cars are ones that "nobody wants". Nor are they all "gas guzzlers" (Witness Falcon ecoboost & ecoLPI, Cruze diesel, Territory diesel, Camry hybrid). While sales of the big cars (Falcon/Commodore) are down, they are still infinitely more popular than an electric or hybrid. Holden also make the small Cruze (which is doing quite well), and Ford have the extremely popular Territory.

I do think there is promise in alternative fuel cars, but they are a long way from being mainstream. In the real world in which we live, it makes absolutely no business sense for GM or Ford to make those niche cars in our country, with its expensive labour and tiny market.

There is plenty of world market for a variety of vehicles. We are good at building large sedans and SUVs in Australia. It's our strength. Hence my call for Govt assistance to be dependent on exports, and by extension the integration of Australia into the world plans of our three local manufacturers.

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Prevailing

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Re: How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry
Reply #19 - Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 10:54pm

Shout out if you are sick of the negativity of the "We Can't" anti tariff brigade who undermine our competitive advantage by not charging Australian production costs to our competitors. All to willing to tax and drive down Australian conditions, security and standards to third world level these people hold back Australia and deliberately sabotage our position and its time to call them what they are - agents for foreign interests and traitors. I say, yes we can - get out of our way dirt ball and stop undermining Australia. Cool

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NBNMyths

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Re: How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry
Reply #20 - Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 11:10pm

Prevailing wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 10:54pm:

Shout out if you are sick of the negativity of the "We Can't" anti tariff brigade who undermine our competitive advantage by not charging Australian production costs to our competitors. All to willing to tax and drive down Australian conditions, security and standards to third world level these people hold back Australia and deliberately sabotage our position and its time to call them what they are - agents for foreign interests and traitors. I say, yes we can - get out of our way dirt ball and stop undermining Australia. Cool

Have you got off your high horse and stopped undermining the Australian web hosting industry yet?

Or are you still hosting your website with the foreign traitors? Grin

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Prevailing

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Re: How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry
Reply #21 - Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 11:20pm

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 11:10pm:

Prevailing wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 10:54pm:

Shout out if you are sick of the negativity of the "We Can't" anti tariff brigade who undermine our competitive advantage by not charging Australian production costs to our competitors. All to willing to tax and drive down Australian conditions, security and standards to third world level these people hold back Australia and deliberately sabotage our position and its time to call them what they are - agents for foreign interests and traitors. I say, yes we can - get out of our way dirt ball and stop undermining Australia. Cool

Have you got off your high horse and stopped undermining the Australian web hosting industry yet?

Or are you still hosting your website with the foreign traitors? Grin

Get lost, not only do you remove tafiffs that meet Australian standards on production costs for import, you argue for a crippling economic sanction or tariff on our own production that you dishonestly call Emissions Trading. Emissions trading is a con and it wont survive - the High Court will bury it or the coalition will first - and then we are going to make our competitors pay appropriate costs to sell their goods in our Market....Up yours Synarchists...up yours.... Tongue

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Sir lastnail

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Re: How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry
Reply #22 - Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 12:52am

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 10:34pm:

I would love nothing more than for there to be an Australian car company. But there isn't one, and there never will be. If Ford, Holden and Toyota close shop, then there will be no Australian car industry at all.

It's not true that Australian cars are ones that "nobody wants". Nor are they all "gas guzzlers" (Witness Falcon ecoboost & ecoLPI, Cruze diesel, Territory diesel, Camry hybrid). While sales of the big cars (Falcon/Commodore) are down, they are still infinitely more popular than an electric or hybrid. Holden also make the small Cruze (which is doing quite well), and Ford have the extremely popular Territory.

I do think there is promise in alternative fuel cars, but they are a long way from being mainstream. In the real world in which we live, it makes absolutely no business sense for GM or Ford to make those niche cars in our country, with its expensive labour and tiny market.

There is plenty of world market for a variety of vehicles. We are good at building large sedans and SUVs in Australia. It's our strength. Hence my call for Govt assistance to be dependent on exports, and by extension the integration of Australia into the world plans of our three local manufacturers.

So how did Germany do it ??

Certainly not by feeding Holden and Ford with billions of their taxpayer dollars !!

How about this company for a start. Lets pump up their measily 3 million R&D grant to 100 million and reduce Holden's by 100 million. At least this company is working in the right direction and are really building a green car !!

http://www.evengineering.com.au/

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Prevailing

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Re: How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry
Reply #23 - Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 1:09am

Tariffs on imports and subsidy's for our own food and manufacturing industries is the way to go - its an investment in our own jobs & children's future and lets face it the Greens are lunatics Cheesy

clearly in the Pay of overseas interests....they think spending our tax payers money subsidizing jobs in foreign countries is a good idea - do the math - vote Rise Up Australia party - dump the Greens loons Cheesy

and keep Australia Australian...

http://riseupaustraliaparty.com/

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry
Reply #24 - Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 5:39am

NBNMyths wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 11:50pm:

Prevailing wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 11:29pm:

The Australian Government is legally obliged to add tariffs to every car imported to Australia to make sure they meet normal Australian production cost standards to make sure our manufacturing industries are not unfairly under cut....

While you can make a case for some tariff protection, there is also a downside. Tariffs can make manufacturers lazy when it comes to quality and value for money. I'd be happy with tariffs to stay where they are now.

Quote:

Only the Rise Up Australia Party will ensure this happens and Australian conditions and laws are not circumvented....http://riseupaustraliaparty.com

Isn't a little bit ironic that the "rise up Australia party", arguing for keeping things Australian, does not even have an Australian domain name (ie .au)?....and, worse, has a website that is hosted in the US by a US-owned company. How can one argue for keeping things Australian when they don't even bother to host their own website here? Roll Eyes

Prolly dont want to pay the extra $125 it costs for an aussie domain name. Notice this forum doesnt have one either.

Aussie hosting companies are ripoff bastards. And ridiculously expensive.

SOB

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Verge

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Re: How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry
Reply #25 - Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 10:24am

Ford and holden sadly build peices of junk. They regularly have suspension or gearbox problems, the VE's are notorious for scrubbing tyres, the clutches in the manuals arent heavy duty enough and they fall to bits.

The FG's have issues with brake rotars warping quickly, boot releases playing up, and too are very plastic inside.

I just went to a Nissan and couldnt be happier, all the extras come standard and I know Ive got a better build quality.

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Prevailing

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Re: How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry
Reply #26 - Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 10:57am

We all know Australia built the finest cars and the ALP deliberately sabotaged them by lowering tariffs so imports could be sold cheaper here. They know these imports do not meet our production standards but they are happy to circumvent our standards in this way and undermine our own competitive position for personal short term gain. But these economic rationalists are selling our country and the time has come to stop it and reinstall appropriate tariffs and protections of our national sovereignty , our food security and manufacturing with appropriate tariffs and duties on imports to make sure our own trading position is not unfairly disadvantaged. The carbon tax and ETS must be scrapped or charged on imports from countries like China and India who are the real mass emissions offenders. We must stop subsidizing other nations and there peoples jobs over our own which is illegal and unconstitutional. Only the Rise Up Australia Party has the sensible policies to secure Australia's economic future and Keep Australia Australian owned...
http://riseupaustraliaparty.com

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry
Reply #27 - Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 11:02am

Verge wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 10:24am:

Ford and holden sadly build peices of junk. They regularly have suspension or gearbox problems, the VE's are notorious for scrubbing tyres, the clutches in the manuals arent heavy duty enough and they fall to bits.

The FG's have issues with brake rotars warping quickly, boot releases playing up, and too are very plastic inside.

I just went to a Nissan and couldnt be happier, all the extras come standard and I know Ive got a better build quality.

verge - yes, most people are buying imported cars because they are better.

the customers always right.
ford have presented cars with the same weak points for decades.

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Prevailing

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Re: How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry
Reply #28 - Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 11:08am

And yet we all know that Australians make better cars but the Government deliberately places illegal economic sanctions on them to make them price uncompetitive. We must urge politicians with a nation wide campaign to reinstate tariffs urgently to force foreign countries to meet our standards of production. When Australian builds things they are built to last...

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Verge

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Re: How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry
Reply #29 - Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 11:36am

Prevailing wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 10:57am:

We all know Australia built the finest cars and the ALP deliberately sabotaged them by lowering tariffs so imports could be sold cheaper here. They know these imports do not meet our production standards but they are happy to circumvent our standards in this way and undermine our own competitive position for personal short term gain. But these economic rationalists are selling our country and the time has come to stop it and reinstall appropriate tariffs and protections of our national sovereignty , our food security and manufacturing with appropriate tariffs and duties on imports to make sure our own trading position is not unfairly disadvantaged. The carbon tax and ETS must be scrapped or charged on imports from countries like China and India who are the real mass emissions offenders. We must stop subsidizing other nations and there peoples jobs over our own which is illegal and unconstitutional. Only the Rise Up Australia Party has the sensible policies to secure Australia's economic future and Keep Australia Australian owned...
http://riseupaustraliaparty.com

Thats rot. The Holden and Falcon have survived on emotion alone for over a decade.

Their reliability is pathetic, and their suspension packages "for Australian conditions" couldnt be further from the truth.

The hyundai i30 won car of the year for something like 3 years in a row and it didnt change in that time.

Ford and Holden have treated their customers poorly by overcharging for heaps of rubbish. If it wasnt for the ford/holden V8SC rivalry they would have died long ago. Even NASCAR went to smaller vehicles for their main racing game long ago.

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Poll
Question: How to deal with Car Manufacturing Industry
* This poll has now closed *
Continue to pump billions of wasted dollars in 0 (0.0%) Stop funding failed businesses 7 (87.5%) Force mining companies to sell them cheap metals 1 (12.5%) Don't Know 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 8 « Created by: bobbythefap1 on: Jul 21^st, 2012 at 12:20pm »