Australian Politics Forum - all the jewish tribes were treacherous

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49371
At my desk.

all the jewish tribes were treacherous
Jul 28^th, 2012 at 9:40pm

How many Jewish tribes does this statement cover?

What period did the Yemeni treaties occur in?

Did Muhammed make treaties with Jews outside of Medina?

falah wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 7:10pm:

Yadda wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 2:28pm:

falah wrote on May 24^th, 2012 at 2:06pm:

The Jewish Nadir and Quraiza tribes were permitted to stay until they broke their peace treaty and fought against the Muslims, with the Nadir tribe being the main offenders in breaking peace treaties with Muslims initially, after being pressured by the Meccans pagans who were furious at being defeated by Muslims at the Battle of Badr:

In the time of Mohammed, Jewish communities in Saudi Arabia were being oppressed and pillaged by moslems.

Why?

Simply because many of the Jews refused to relinquish Judaism, and adopt ISLAM.

This is false Yadda, the Jews had invited Muhammed to come to Madina and be their ruler. The Jews had signed treaties promising to protect the Islamic state. The Jews broke their treaties and attacked the Islamic state. This was grounds for their expulsion. Some of the Jewish tribes had been more treacherous than other. Despite their many crimes, Prophet Muhammed mercifully gave the tribe deemed least treacherous one last chance to stay if they converted to Islam. Some of the Jews dedcided to take up the offer and converted o Islam, others left.

This was all done on a case by case basis. Over the years, all the Jewish tribes in Madina proved themselves to be treacherous and broke their treaties with the Muslims.

There were other Jews living under the islamic state, like those in Yemen. The Yemeni Jews did not break treaties, and therefore were not expelled from Yemen. In fact most of the Yemeni jews converted to Islam, but many remained Jewish and till this day there are many Yemeni Jews.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

bobbythefap1 Gold Member Offline Posts: 7026 Listen now to the rain	Re: all the jewish tribes were treacherous Reply #1 - Jul 28^th, 2012 at 9:42pm Usury
Back to top	A day without sunshine is like night. IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49371
At my desk.

Re: all the jewish tribes were treacherous
Reply #2 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:32am

From the Aisha thread:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26^th, 2014 at 8:27pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2014 at 6:59pm:

It is not clear at all. You have merely insisted it is the case, while taking 3 contradictory stances. You claim they were constantly trying to annihilate each other, that they had stopped fighting in the interests of self preservation and that one group was maintaining the upper hand and somehow ruling the weaker tribes, while not actually annihilating them.

lol - it is not contradictory when they happen in sequence: first the jews ruled over the arabs, second the arabs overthrew them and ruled over the jews, third the arabs fought each other for over a century - only deciding to end the destructive war when it was obvious each side was anhialating itself. If Muhammad ceased hostilities in the interests of self preservation, you would merely cite it as evidence of how sinister he was.

So at the time Muhammed turned up, the tribes were living together in peace, as equals, and Muhammed fixed this by kicking out the first two Jewish tribes and annihilating the third?

If he had actually ceased the (already-ceased) hostilities, that might make him a peacemaker. He was a classic warmonger, and these transparent justifications for Jew-slaughtering would make Goebbels proud.

Quote:

This sequence of events very plainly demonstrates your portrayal of coexisting tribes trading with each other and having a society based on "genuine equality" with no caste system is a complete joke.

Why? Because it had not been that way for all eternity?

Quote:

hilarious. I'm not justifying anything - quote me justifying anything Muhammad did in this thread.

You have justified his slaughter of an entire Jewish tribe, on the grounds that they were all scheming Jews who deserved what they got.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: all the jewish tribes were treacherous Reply #3 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:49am There were about 11 jewish tribes in Medina. Little is written about the other 8 or so, but we do know they continued to coexist with the muslims. When Umar conquered Jerusalem his army comprised some jews from Medina.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: all the jewish tribes were treacherous
Reply #4 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 10:59am

freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:32am:

Why? Because it had not been that way for all eternity?

No, you said Muhammad invented a completely alien religious caste system in Medina - he demonstrably did not. Most historians agree that at the time Muhammad entered Medina, the jews were subjects to the Aws and Khazraj - and had been such since the Aws and Khazraj stopped being subjects to the jews, after a violent revolt.

freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 7:32am:

You have justified his slaughter of an entire Jewish tribe, on the grounds that they were all scheming Jews who deserved what they got.

You invented the strawman in the thread you quote - to try and worm your way out of the fact that you made up BS fairy tales about Muhammad disrupting a utopian society society based on "genuine equality". My simple rebuttal consists only of pointing out that you are speaking out of your arse with a complete ignorance of history - not some red herring about how Muhammad was justified in what he did.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49371
At my desk.

Re: all the jewish tribes were treacherous
Reply #5 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 11:38am

Quote:

There were about 11 jewish tribes in Medina.

3 of those tribes were big enough to be a threat to Muhammed's quest for power. Guess which 3 Muhammed got rid of?

Quote:

You invented the strawman in the thread you quote - to try and worm your way out of the fact that you made up BS fairy tales about Muhammad disrupting a utopian society society based on "genuine equality". My simple rebuttal consists only of pointing out that you are speaking out of your arse with a complete ignorance of history - not some red herring about how Muhammad was justified in what he did.

You challenged me to quote you justifying anything Muhammed did, after you just finished justifying him slaughtering that tribe of Jews.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: all the jewish tribes were treacherous Reply #6 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 12:11pm freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 11:38am: You challenged me to quote you justifying anything Muhammed did In the context of the topic we were discussing - obviously.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49371 At my desk.	Re: all the jewish tribes were treacherous Reply #7 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 12:14pm This was the context Gandalf: You are misrepresenting the conditions in Medina in order to justify the underhandedness and brutality with which Muhammed took control of the city. How is the slaughtering of an entire Jewish tribe in any way out of context?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: all the jewish tribes were treacherous Reply #8 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 12:43pm ummm yes FD - thats the strawman you created - the very quote Did you have a point?
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Team Murdoch

Full Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 238
Gender: male

Re: all the jewish tribes were treacherous
Reply #9 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 2:28pm

freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 12:14pm:

This was the context Gandalf:

You are misrepresenting the conditions in Medina in order to justify the underhandedness and brutality with which Muhammed took control of the city.

How is the slaughtering of an entire Jewish tribe in any way out of context?

The entire tribe was not slaughtered. Only fighters from the tribe who had committed treachery by attacking the state from within and aiding an invading enemy contrary to an established treaty were punished with death.

The US has death on the statutes for treachery. The US has executed Jews, including women, for treachery. Have a problem with the US too?

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49371
At my desk.

Re: all the jewish tribes were treacherous
Reply #10 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 2:48pm

Quote:

Only fighters from the tribe who had committed treachery by attacking the state from within and aiding an invading enemy contrary to an established treaty were punished with death.

Crap. There was no actual fighting until Muhammed laid siege to the Jewish tribe. Nor was there any kind of state for them to attack. It was a city that Muhammed was still trying to gain control of. Muhammed slaughtered about 800 Jewish men that day. How many died in the alleged "fighting"?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Baronvonrort

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 18724
Gender: male

Re: all the jewish tribes were treacherous
Reply #11 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 2:53pm

Team Murdoch wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 2:28pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 12:14pm:

This was the context Gandalf:

You are misrepresenting the conditions in Medina in order to justify the underhandedness and brutality with which Muhammed took control of the city.

How is the slaughtering of an entire Jewish tribe in any way out of context?

The entire tribe was not slaughtered. Only fighters from the tribe who had committed treachery by attacking the state from within and aiding an invading enemy contrary to an established treaty were punished with death.

The US has death on the statutes for treachery. The US has executed Jews, including women, for treachery. Have a problem with the US too?

The women and children were not slaughtered they were sold into slavery so Muhammad could get money for weapons and horses.

So how many muslim deaths were caused by the jews defending Muhammad from 15,000 Meccan soldiers who wanted Muhammad for robbing the trade caravans, was it none zip zilch?

So when was the last execution for treason in the USA?

Back to top

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: all the jewish tribes were treacherous
Reply #12 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 4:43pm

freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

Crap. There was no actual fighting until Muhammed laid siege to the Jewish tribe.

Umm the city was under attack by the Quraysh. Also the Sealed Nectar, which Baron always used to love to reference, describes specific attacks by the Qurayza against the muslims during the siege.

In any case, all that really matters is that the Qurayza secretly met with the Quraysh to arrange the opening up of a second front, on order for the Quraysh to perform a genocide and destroy the muslim state. The deal only fell through over a disagreement about hostages (each side would take hostages from the other as insurance). That alone is a capital offense in just about everyone's book.

So tough titties traitors Cool

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 42289	Re: all the jewish tribes were treacherous Reply #13 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 4:53pm SIGH, here we go again. FD speaking from ignorance again...
Back to top	Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49371
At my desk.

Re: all the jewish tribes were treacherous
Reply #14 - Sep 29^th, 2014 at 6:22pm

Quote:

Umm the city was under attack by the Quraysh.

How many died in this attack?

Quote:

In any case, all that really matters is that the Qurayza secretly met with the Quraysh to arrange the opening up of a second front, on order for the Quraysh to perform a genocide and destroy the muslim state. The deal only fell through over a disagreement about hostages (each side would take hostages from the other as insurance). That alone is a capital offense in just about everyone's book.
So tough titties traitors

Of course. All 800 of them deserved to die for being scheming Jews and plotting against Muhammed who had treated them with nothing but respect, right? Can you conceive of any modern situation where you would support the execution of 800 people over a single incident?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged