Australian Politics Forum - Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.

gold_medal

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Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #135 - Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:37pm

adelcrow wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:32pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:27pm:

adelcrow wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:12pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:09pm:

adelcrow wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:05pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:02pm:

adelcrow wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 9:30am:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 9:03am:

adelcrow wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 8:08am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 8:00am:

Dnarever wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 7:55am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 7:46am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 7:09am:

Quote:

What's wrong with changing something that clearly is not working?

Nothing - it's just that those changes are secret.
Why doesn't he come clean & tell us?

Answer:
he wants to bring back even more harsh laws against employees
& he would lose votes if he told the truth.

What "secrets"? Those were Shorten's words, not Abbott's. Lets face it, Shorten isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer so I don't know why you're putting so much faith in what that moron says.

If you are going to put Abbnott and Shorten in the same sentance it is difficult to justify insulting Shortan's inteligence when you have put dumber right there next to him..

Abbott is a Rhodes Scholar, Shorten is an ex-Union hack. Abbott doesn't blindly follow, whereas Shorten adopts his boss' view despite having no freaking idea what it is. Yeah, Shorten is definitely the dumbest politician by a long shot. Shorten wins Gold, Silver and Bronze in that event. I'll take Abbott over Shorten as PM any day.

Abbott does whatever the ultra right wing power brokers of his faction tell him to do or he's out on his arse.
Remind me again of all the ground breaking policy changes Abbott made in all the years he was a senior minister in the Howard govt and what he did to further this country in all those years that he had a golden opportunity to do so.
Personally I cant think of anything unless we include trashing the public health system and lying about massive cuts at elections.

Whatever you have been eating and drinking, it clearly doesnt agree with you. Bitterness and anger seems to be the content of your posts and pretty much nothing else. Even fact seems to elude you. It is one think to be partisan. It is another to be an embittered old fool. Your choice...

Your well thought out counter arguments are a thing to behold Grin

You dont make counter-arguments to mindless embittered blather. It accidentally gives it some credibility which it certainly doesnt deserve.

Another brilliant counter argument Grin

I can make brilliant counter arguments. That however implies you made an initial argument. You havent. You've strung together a pile of idiotic comments and then delude yourself into think that you created something of note. Your comments so far are nothing more than the vomit of a drunk outside the debating chamber.

Try some substance and you might get a substantial reply.

Abuse followed by more abuse isn't even trying to put an opinion forward.

Feel free to break the cycle and actually contribute something of credible substance. You are still a vomitting spectator.

I tend to ignore those that have nothing to say except simple minded abuse but up until now Ive excused you..
Get back to me when you have something to say..toodle oo and good luck finding someone to join your little game for longer than a few minutes.

Bye for now. I wil keep looking to see if you have a credible argument to make, but so far the score is 0% so I am not hopeful.

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scope

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Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #136 - Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:44pm

gold_medal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:13pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:07pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 2:40pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 1:17pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 12:52pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 12:27pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 9:00am:

Wow you lefties can be paranoid dunces! There is no Workchoices. There is the possibility of some industrial relations legisltaion changes just as every government has done every time. Or are you trying to say that Fiarwork is so good it needs no changes? Is that why they had a review which was the best example of a government-intiated review in that all the panel could do is say the FW was doing what was intended, not whther it was any good or not.

Get over it. Industrial relations changes are part of life and always will be.

dream on sunshine !!

It won't be called Workchoices. It will be called something else so they can get away with their lies of not reinstating it Sad

It's the same rust just with a different coat of paint covering it Sad

Another leftie trait: blatant hypocrisy. Leftie labor promises no carbon tax and then gives one. and now complain about the breach of a liberal promise that hasnt even happened.

Do you realise just how silly and pathetic you are? Why dont you come back and complain if workchoices IS reinstated. Of course the problem is that will require integrity to determine if it is workchoices rather than just a few industrial legislation changes.

Integrity: yet another attribute lefties talk about, long for yet have none of.

A few industrial legislation changes - my arse it will be !!

Get your nose out of The Australian newspaper mate because you're starting to sound like a disciple !!

well you could aways step out of loser-leftie-land and actually present FACTUAL policies from Abbott and debate them because at the moment all you are doing is repeating make-believe and fairy-stories and being silly enough to believe them to be the truth. Abbott will kill all the children under 2!!! And I know it is true because I read it on a website. The UN is planning to install Abbott as dictator-for-life. Its true because stormfront says so.

Get a fact and debate that. And by the sounds of it, you might want to pick up a life at the same time.

Well if Abbott actually had the guts to release some policies instead of motherhood statements we might be able to.
I've been wanting to see these policies and understand their implementation and ramifications for a while now, only to be told I'm not entitled to an informed vote, shut up you'll see them 3 weeks before the election and be grateful for that.

Abbott's gutless, he won't release detail, he won't have them costed, he believes he will cruise into office. Angry

While it would be nice to see detailed complete policies 12months before an election (and isnt the election over 12months away so why are you complaining??) that can only work if all parties do it. ANd since no one has done that since 1996 after the 1993 experiment, you can hardly complain. When I hear people bemoaning labor doing exactly that (refusing to release policies when in opposition) then we can debate on reasonable grounds. At the moment it is just the same old people cheering for the same old party and complaining that the other team is doing exactly what hey did in the same situation - only more successfully.

Perfect example of my highlighted statement, so when is it OK to expect these policies you want us to debate?
And if Labor is so bad, so terminal why does it matter when they are released?
And why are you doing this sock game FFS, own your posts, ignore the haters and present a decent argument like I know you can.

I said it at the time (1993) that honesty and transparency in election would die. THe libs put forward a comprehensive plan and suite of policies well before the election and were comprehensively punished for it by an electorate that was dumb. And there's the rub. voters actually are dumb and parties have to manage that stupidity carefully. keating was a spectacularly good politician. It takes quite a genius to campaign so savagely and effectively against your own preferred position (GST). Keating lied, misrepresented and took advantage of his opponent in a brilliantly effective way. But he was still a liar and an epic hypocrite. And the people rewarded him for it.

And ever since then BOTH sides refuse to release detailed policies before and election because they know that voters are stupid enough to believe the constructed nonsense of the other side (both sides). The small target approach is now how the game is played byt everyone. But dont blame the parties. Blame the voters. If the voters in 1993 had rejected keating as they originally intended to and werene sucked in by nothing more than a charismatic snake-oil hypocrite we would probably be seeing detailed liberal polices now - just as we would have been discussing Rudds in 2006 instead of 2007.

Yes I am sure it is frustrating but the rules of the game have changed. Havent you already seen the almost desperate attempt by labor to invoke the ghost of WorkChoices? do you think for one second that labor wouldn't call liberal industrial relations policy WorkChoices 2 no matter what it actually said? the level of dishonesty exhibited by both parties but especially an increasinly desperate labor party is apalling. But while the electorate rewards charisma over content and re-elects lies over vision, the small target campaign will always ensue.

trying to change history again, you never give up do you.
If you had read and understood what Keating said at the time you would recognize that he didn't lie at all.
he was for a GST but and here's the bit you don't like to mention,.He wanted a different format for the tax.
Why is that so hard for you conservatives to understand?

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 103110 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2. Reply #137 - Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:46pm Quote: Bye for now. I wil keep looking to see if you have a credible argument to make, but so far the score is 0% so I am not hopeful. You'll be back as Longweekend.
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skippy.

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Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #138 - Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:49pm

gold_medal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:13pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:07pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 2:40pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 1:17pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 12:52pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 12:27pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 9:00am:

Wow you lefties can be paranoid dunces! There is no Workchoices. There is the possibility of some industrial relations legisltaion changes just as every government has done every time. Or are you trying to say that Fiarwork is so good it needs no changes? Is that why they had a review which was the best example of a government-intiated review in that all the panel could do is say the FW was doing what was intended, not whther it was any good or not.

Get over it. Industrial relations changes are part of life and always will be.

dream on sunshine !!

It won't be called Workchoices. It will be called something else so they can get away with their lies of not reinstating it Sad

It's the same rust just with a different coat of paint covering it Sad

Another leftie trait: blatant hypocrisy. Leftie labor promises no carbon tax and then gives one. and now complain about the breach of a liberal promise that hasnt even happened.

Do you realise just how silly and pathetic you are? Why dont you come back and complain if workchoices IS reinstated. Of course the problem is that will require integrity to determine if it is workchoices rather than just a few industrial legislation changes.

Integrity: yet another attribute lefties talk about, long for yet have none of.

A few industrial legislation changes - my arse it will be !!

Get your nose out of The Australian newspaper mate because you're starting to sound like a disciple !!

well you could aways step out of loser-leftie-land and actually present FACTUAL policies from Abbott and debate them because at the moment all you are doing is repeating make-believe and fairy-stories and being silly enough to believe them to be the truth. Abbott will kill all the children under 2!!! And I know it is true because I read it on a website. The UN is planning to install Abbott as dictator-for-life. Its true because stormfront says so.

Get a fact and debate that. And by the sounds of it, you might want to pick up a life at the same time.

Well if Abbott actually had the guts to release some policies instead of motherhood statements we might be able to.
I've been wanting to see these policies and understand their implementation and ramifications for a while now, only to be told I'm not entitled to an informed vote, shut up you'll see them 3 weeks before the election and be grateful for that.

Abbott's gutless, he won't release detail, he won't have them costed, he believes he will cruise into office. Angry

While it would be nice to see detailed complete policies 12months before an election (and isnt the election over 12months away so why are you complaining??) that can only work if all parties do it. ANd since no one has done that since 1996 after the 1993 experiment, you can hardly complain. When I hear people bemoaning labor doing exactly that (refusing to release policies when in opposition) then we can debate on reasonable grounds. At the moment it is just the same old people cheering for the same old party and complaining that the other team is doing exactly what hey did in the same situation - only more successfully.

Perfect example of my highlighted statement, so when is it OK to expect these policies you want us to debate?
And if Labor is so bad, so terminal why does it matter when they are released?
And why are you doing this sock game FFS, own your posts, ignore the haters and present a decent argument like I know you can.

I said it at the time (1993) that honesty and transparency in election would die. THe libs put forward a comprehensive plan and suite of policies well before the election and were comprehensively punished for it by an electorate that was dumb. And there's the rub. voters actually are dumb and parties have to manage that stupidity carefully. .

you only need to look at the polls to see that is true. This new sock of long weekends must be his honest sock. I'm not surprised the abusive sock got banned. Grin

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Bobby.

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Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #139 - Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:52pm

Longweekend,
Quote:

I said it at the time (1993) that honesty and transparency in election would die. THe libs put forward a comprehensive plan and suite of policies well before the election and were comprehensively punished for it by an electorate that was dumb. And there's the rub. voters actually are dumb and parties have to manage that stupidity carefully. .

Thanks for your honesty.

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gold_medal

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Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #140 - Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:56pm

scope wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:44pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:13pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:07pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 2:40pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 1:17pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 12:52pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 12:27pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 9:00am:

Wow you lefties can be paranoid dunces! There is no Workchoices. There is the possibility of some industrial relations legisltaion changes just as every government has done every time. Or are you trying to say that Fiarwork is so good it needs no changes? Is that why they had a review which was the best example of a government-intiated review in that all the panel could do is say the FW was doing what was intended, not whther it was any good or not.

Get over it. Industrial relations changes are part of life and always will be.

dream on sunshine !!

It won't be called Workchoices. It will be called something else so they can get away with their lies of not reinstating it Sad

It's the same rust just with a different coat of paint covering it Sad

Another leftie trait: blatant hypocrisy. Leftie labor promises no carbon tax and then gives one. and now complain about the breach of a liberal promise that hasnt even happened.

Do you realise just how silly and pathetic you are? Why dont you come back and complain if workchoices IS reinstated. Of course the problem is that will require integrity to determine if it is workchoices rather than just a few industrial legislation changes.

Integrity: yet another attribute lefties talk about, long for yet have none of.

A few industrial legislation changes - my arse it will be !!

Get your nose out of The Australian newspaper mate because you're starting to sound like a disciple !!

well you could aways step out of loser-leftie-land and actually present FACTUAL policies from Abbott and debate them because at the moment all you are doing is repeating make-believe and fairy-stories and being silly enough to believe them to be the truth. Abbott will kill all the children under 2!!! And I know it is true because I read it on a website. The UN is planning to install Abbott as dictator-for-life. Its true because stormfront says so.

Get a fact and debate that. And by the sounds of it, you might want to pick up a life at the same time.

Well if Abbott actually had the guts to release some policies instead of motherhood statements we might be able to.
I've been wanting to see these policies and understand their implementation and ramifications for a while now, only to be told I'm not entitled to an informed vote, shut up you'll see them 3 weeks before the election and be grateful for that.

Abbott's gutless, he won't release detail, he won't have them costed, he believes he will cruise into office. Angry

While it would be nice to see detailed complete policies 12months before an election (and isnt the election over 12months away so why are you complaining??) that can only work if all parties do it. ANd since no one has done that since 1996 after the 1993 experiment, you can hardly complain. When I hear people bemoaning labor doing exactly that (refusing to release policies when in opposition) then we can debate on reasonable grounds. At the moment it is just the same old people cheering for the same old party and complaining that the other team is doing exactly what hey did in the same situation - only more successfully.

Perfect example of my highlighted statement, so when is it OK to expect these policies you want us to debate?
And if Labor is so bad, so terminal why does it matter when they are released?
And why are you doing this sock game FFS, own your posts, ignore the haters and present a decent argument like I know you can.

I said it at the time (1993) that honesty and transparency in election would die. THe libs put forward a comprehensive plan and suite of policies well before the election and were comprehensively punished for it by an electorate that was dumb. And there's the rub. voters actually are dumb and parties have to manage that stupidity carefully. keating was a spectacularly good politician. It takes quite a genius to campaign so savagely and effectively against your own preferred position (GST). Keating lied, misrepresented and took advantage of his opponent in a brilliantly effective way. But he was still a liar and an epic hypocrite. And the people rewarded him for it.

And ever since then BOTH sides refuse to release detailed policies before and election because they know that voters are stupid enough to believe the constructed nonsense of the other side (both sides). The small target approach is now how the game is played byt everyone. But dont blame the parties. Blame the voters. If the voters in 1993 had rejected keating as they originally intended to and werene sucked in by nothing more than a charismatic snake-oil hypocrite we would probably be seeing detailed liberal polices now - just as we would have been discussing Rudds in 2006 instead of 2007.

Yes I am sure it is frustrating but the rules of the game have changed. Havent you already seen the almost desperate attempt by labor to invoke the ghost of WorkChoices? do you think for one second that labor wouldn't call liberal industrial relations policy WorkChoices 2 no matter what it actually said? the level of dishonesty exhibited by both parties but especially an increasinly desperate labor party is apalling. But while the electorate rewards charisma over content and re-elects lies over vision, the small target campaign will always ensue.

trying to change history again, you never give up do you.
If you had read and understood what Keating said at the time you would recognize that he didn't lie at all.
he was for a GST but and here's the bit you don't like to mention,.[highlight]He wanted a different format for the tax.[/highlight]
Why is that so hard for you conservatives to understand?

the different format he wanted was it being a Labor Policy. it takes a special kind of hypocrisy to campaign against what you actually beleive in like that.

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progressiveslol

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Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #141 - Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:56pm

skippy. wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:49pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:36pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:13pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:07pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 2:40pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 1:17pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 12:52pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 12:40pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 12:27pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 9:00am:

Wow you lefties can be paranoid dunces! There is no Workchoices. There is the possibility of some industrial relations legisltaion changes just as every government has done every time. Or are you trying to say that Fiarwork is so good it needs no changes? Is that why they had a review which was the best example of a government-intiated review in that all the panel could do is say the FW was doing what was intended, not whther it was any good or not.

Get over it. Industrial relations changes are part of life and always will be.

dream on sunshine !!

It won't be called Workchoices. It will be called something else so they can get away with their lies of not reinstating it Sad

It's the same rust just with a different coat of paint covering it Sad