Australian Politics Forum - Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.

Andrei.Hicks

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23818
Carlsbad, CA
Gender: male

Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #195 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:37pm

gold_medal wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:17pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

We had a great long meeting not long ago on the legislation that is "Fair Work Australia" about our staff in the ANZ offices.

Seriously, the stuff in there left the room in silence.

Aside from a VP of the company who turned to me (knowing I originally had come from Australia) and said "You guys are a bunch of fking Commies".....

To be fair though. American companies treat their employees like crap. While I agree that FairWork is a retrograde step, your comments are even worse. Americans do tend to consider the bottom-line the only consideration. And I must repeat that despite these obligations, our economy is world-best while the American economy is well... looming into double-dip recession after only just avoiding depression. It is hardly an endorsement of your profit-at-all-costs mentality. There is a balance to be sought but Im not sure you have the slightest clue what that is or even means. Im sure that if you were permitted to halve employye salaries and remove all benefits and perks you would in a hearbeat.

Your arrogant assumption that you have more employees that live in my city pretty much puts paid to your credibility. Employ over 3 million, do you?

Sure it doesn't have anything to do with just bare-ass fortune you sit on raw materials that China needs??

Kuwait and Saudi Arabia have good economic balance sheet too - for exactly the same reason.

Don't fool yourselves you are good economic managers - you are expensive, you tax your people too much and you attract "something for nothing" sh*t people to turn up in boats.

Back to top

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

IP Logged

Andrei.Hicks

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23818
Carlsbad, CA
Gender: male

Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #196 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:42pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:14pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:07pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:05pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 11:45am:

It's got nothing to do with setting up payroll.

We're in the top 10 biggest companies in the world and have more power than the country of Australia itself.
We probably have more part time employees paid than live in your city.

This is about the role.
Why should we have to find a 2 day per week role for someone because they want to fit in with their lifestyle.

We have a job, we kept it open for you (fine with that) but its not a 2 day per week role.

Take it back or bugger off somewhere else.

That's how it works elsewhere but Aussies being the fking socialists they are seem to think we should be bent over backwards.

You're far too soft.

We look after our people. I child has a better upbringing if the mother works part time vs full time. The mother is more productive (per hour) part time than full time.
A working mother is more productive to the country, even at 2-3 days a week, than a non working mother.
Anyway, the part time is only for a few years until the kid is school age, when most career mothers go back to full time work.

I'm sure being the arsehole you are, you'll find a way to sack her, and put that family into financial stress.

And what do you suppose the business does with a 5 day per week role that the person coming back wants to do 2 days?

Just drop 3 days onto other workers?

Or increase the headcount (and all the atttributed expense) to suit in with an employee.

The horse following the cart isn't it?

Another example of a pig headed ignorant management approach.

For a start, youve had a year to think about it, probably 1.5 years since she told you she was pregnant. Start planning ahead.

Secondly, you've managed "somehow" (god knows how with your inflexibility) to survive without her for 12 months.

And finally, it would be highly unlikely if her division is exactly the same size (budget, headcount) as it was when she left.

And double finally, if you are a big organisation its very easy to accomodate shifting work patterns, as they tend to even out.

Your problem here is pig headed inflexible management driven by misguided ideology and a hatred of their workers.

Do you have any idea how US multi-nationals work from a perspective of headcount and divisional management?

1) Employee announces pregnant
2) Headcount hire is approve for backfill for 12 month pregnancy period
3) 12 month contractor brought in - like for like salary - headcount remains static so as not dis-balance the profitability ratio
4) Employee returns, contractor leaves

Boom.
No headcount increase, marginal increase in OpEx from recruitment fees but being the size of the company we are we can bully them down to a low price and OpEx remains under control.

Now think about the Aussie situation -

Employee comes back to 2 days a week??
Why should we have to increase headcount or OpEx to suit in with them personally?
Who are they to tell us what to do?
Plus how engaged will they be after 5pm? We need office staff to be able to put the hours in when needed - they will be less able now.

What do we do with the other 3 days?
Increase the headcount?
Find someone for just 3 days? Find another role?

It's absurd. You can see why Americans think the law is a joke.

Back to top

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

IP Logged

gold_medal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 3897
Gender: male

Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #197 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:43pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:34pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:21pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:07pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:05pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 11:45am:

It's got nothing to do with setting up payroll.

We're in the top 10 biggest companies in the world and have more power than the country of Australia itself.
We probably have more part time employees paid than live in your city.

This is about the role.
Why should we have to find a 2 day per week role for someone because they want to fit in with their lifestyle.

We have a job, we kept it open for you (fine with that) but its not a 2 day per week role.

Take it back or bugger off somewhere else.

That's how it works elsewhere but Aussies being the fking socialists they are seem to think we should be bent over backwards.

You're far too soft.

We look after our people. I child has a better upbringing if the mother works part time vs full time. The mother is more productive (per hour) part time than full time.
A working mother is more productive to the country, even at 2-3 days a week, than a non working mother.
Anyway, the part time is only for a few years until the kid is school age, when most career mothers go back to full time work.

I'm sure being the arsehole you are, you'll find a way to sack her, and put that family into financial stress.

And what do you suppose the business does with a 5 day per week role that the person coming back wants to do 2 days?

Just drop 3 days onto other workers?

Or increase the headcount (and all the atttributed expense) to suit in with an employee.

The horse following the cart isn't it?

its called Human Resource Management. Look it up. The rest of the world has been doing it for decades. AS usual the USA leads in technological matters but lags dreadfully in socio-economic matters.

On the contrary, where I work actively promotes employee engagement.
How do you think we deliver such excellent results in a downturn and remain one of the biggest petroleum companies in the world in all countries?

However it is about 2 things -
Employee engagement
Returning maximum shareholder profit

Both of the two in sync with each other.

Employees can (and do) take maternity leave but then when they come back - it should be either to the same role or not at all (or to another role if it is available).
We cannot though expect companies to change a role to work in with someone just because their circumstances have changed.

It's literally the case of the soldier telling the general what he has decided to do.

The employee works for the employer - not the other way around.

The Fair Work Australia legislation is ridiculous.
Take 12 months off, option to take longer and then come back and employer must offer suitable work conditions to suit the employee's circumstances.

Unbelievable.

And you wonder why you pay more tax than I do and have to pay 40% more than I do for pretty much everything.

Australia, nice beaches, nice bridge - but fking socialist in its outlook and just out of touch.

it is not even close to what you say (highlighted). That yuo would use this ridiculous metaphor shows exactly why you dont have a clue about the needs of others or employees. Do you actually care about the needs of others? It doesnt sound much like it!

Back to top

IP Logged

Andrei.Hicks

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23818
Carlsbad, CA
Gender: male

Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #198 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:45pm

I actively care about the company, its goals, my divisions and their staff and all of the other things.

But to have legislation in Australia where an employee can come back after taking off 12 months and tell us they will only work 2 or 3 days and we have to accommodate that is beyond absurd.

We are giving them off 12 months, the role is kept open.
That's how it works here. Why should they change the role and why should they be able to?

Do you not see the issue with that?

Back to top

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

IP Logged

gold_medal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 3897
Gender: male

Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #199 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:46pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:37pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:17pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

We had a great long meeting not long ago on the legislation that is "Fair Work Australia" about our staff in the ANZ offices.

Seriously, the stuff in there left the room in silence.

Aside from a VP of the company who turned to me (knowing I originally had come from Australia) and said "You guys are a bunch of fking Commies".....

To be fair though. American companies treat their employees like crap. While I agree that FairWork is a retrograde step, your comments are even worse. Americans do tend to consider the bottom-line the only consideration. And I must repeat that despite these obligations, our economy is world-best while the American economy is well... looming into double-dip recession after only just avoiding depression. It is hardly an endorsement of your profit-at-all-costs mentality. There is a balance to be sought but Im not sure you have the slightest clue what that is or even means. Im sure that if you were permitted to halve employye salaries and remove all benefits and perks you would in a hearbeat.

Your arrogant assumption that you have more employees that live in my city pretty much puts paid to your credibility. Employ over 3 million, do you?

Sure it doesn't have anything to do with just bare-ass fortune you sit on raw materials that China needs??

Kuwait and Saudi Arabia have good economic balance sheet too - for exactly the same reason.

Don't fool yourselves you are good economic managers - you are expensive, you tax your people too much and you attract "something for nothing" sh*t people to turn up in boats.

USA digs up and sells more than we do. So how come you dont apply that rule to yourself?

its not about mining or any other aspect of the economy. it is about managing what you have properly and staying out of debt - something USA has been truly woeful at. Like everything in life, it is not about your skills or giftings - it is about how you use them to their maximum and doing so responsibly. I wish I could say you could understand that but I doubt it. Im sure everything in your life has a dollar value attached to it.

Back to top

IP Logged

gold_medal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 3897
Gender: male

Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #200 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:47pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:42pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:14pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:07pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:05pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 11:45am:

It's got nothing to do with setting up payroll.

We're in the top 10 biggest companies in the world and have more power than the country of Australia itself.
We probably have more part time employees paid than live in your city.

This is about the role.
Why should we have to find a 2 day per week role for someone because they want to fit in with their lifestyle.

We have a job, we kept it open for you (fine with that) but its not a 2 day per week role.

Take it back or bugger off somewhere else.

That's how it works elsewhere but Aussies being the fking socialists they are seem to think we should be bent over backwards.

You're far too soft.

We look after our people. I child has a better upbringing if the mother works part time vs full time. The mother is more productive (per hour) part time than full time.
A working mother is more productive to the country, even at 2-3 days a week, than a non working mother.
Anyway, the part time is only for a few years until the kid is school age, when most career mothers go back to full time work.

I'm sure being the arsehole you are, you'll find a way to sack her, and put that family into financial stress.

And what do you suppose the business does with a 5 day per week role that the person coming back wants to do 2 days?

Just drop 3 days onto other workers?

Or increase the headcount (and all the atttributed expense) to suit in with an employee.

The horse following the cart isn't it?

Another example of a pig headed ignorant management approach.

For a start, youve had a year to think about it, probably 1.5 years since she told you she was pregnant. Start planning ahead.

Secondly, you've managed "somehow" (god knows how with your inflexibility) to survive without her for 12 months.

And finally, it would be highly unlikely if her division is exactly the same size (budget, headcount) as it was when she left.

And double finally, if you are a big organisation its very easy to accomodate shifting work patterns, as they tend to even out.

Your problem here is pig headed inflexible management driven by misguided ideology and a hatred of their workers.

Do you have any idea how US multi-nationals work from a perspective of headcount and divisional management?

1) Employee announces pregnant
2) Headcount hire is approve for backfill for 12 month pregnancy period
3) 12 month contractor brought in - like for like salary - headcount remains static so as not dis-balance the profitability ratio
4) Employee returns, contractor leaves

Boom.
No headcount increase, marginal increase in OpEx from recruitment fees but being the size of the company we are we can bully them down to a low price and OpEx remains under control.

Now think about the Aussie situation -

Employee comes back to 2 days a week??
Why should we have to increase headcount or OpEx to suit in with them personally?
Who are they to tell us what to do?
Plus how engaged will they be after 5pm? We need office staff to be able to put the hours in when needed - they will be less able now.

What do we do with the other 3 days?
Increase the headcount?
Find someone for just 3 days? Find another role?

It's absurd. You can see why Americans think the law is a joke.

So you are saying that it is all too hard for you to handle? Im sure your intellect is up to the challenge so what is the problem?

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 58162
Here
Gender: male

Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #201 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:47pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:37pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:17pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

We had a great long meeting not long ago on the legislation that is "Fair Work Australia" about our staff in the ANZ offices.

Seriously, the stuff in there left the room in silence.

Aside from a VP of the company who turned to me (knowing I originally had come from Australia) and said "You guys are a bunch of fking Commies".....

To be fair though. American companies treat their employees like crap. While I agree that FairWork is a retrograde step, your comments are even worse. Americans do tend to consider the bottom-line the only consideration. And I must repeat that despite these obligations, our economy is world-best while the American economy is well... looming into double-dip recession after only just avoiding depression. It is hardly an endorsement of your profit-at-all-costs mentality. There is a balance to be sought but Im not sure you have the slightest clue what that is or even means. Im sure that if you were permitted to halve employye salaries and remove all benefits and perks you would in a hearbeat.

Your arrogant assumption that you have more employees that live in my city pretty much puts paid to your credibility. Employ over 3 million, do you?

Sure it doesn't have anything to do with just bare-ass fortune you sit on raw materials that China needs??

Kuwait and Saudi Arabia have good economic balance sheet too - for exactly the same reason.

Don't fool yourselves you are good economic managers - you are expensive, you tax your people too much and you attract "something for nothing" sh*t people to turn up in boats.

attract "something for nothing" sh*t people to turn up in boats.

The rotten poms with the first fleet started the rot.

What about the shite people who fly in and openly admit to avoiding paying their tax.

Back to top

IP Logged

Andrei.Hicks

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23818
Carlsbad, CA
Gender: male

Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #202 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:47pm

gold_medal wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:46pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:37pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:17pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

We had a great long meeting not long ago on the legislation that is "Fair Work Australia" about our staff in the ANZ offices.

Seriously, the stuff in there left the room in silence.

Aside from a VP of the company who turned to me (knowing I originally had come from Australia) and said "You guys are a bunch of fking Commies".....

To be fair though. American companies treat their employees like crap. While I agree that FairWork is a retrograde step, your comments are even worse. Americans do tend to consider the bottom-line the only consideration. And I must repeat that despite these obligations, our economy is world-best while the American economy is well... looming into double-dip recession after only just avoiding depression. It is hardly an endorsement of your profit-at-all-costs mentality. There is a balance to be sought but Im not sure you have the slightest clue what that is or even means. Im sure that if you were permitted to halve employye salaries and remove all benefits and perks you would in a hearbeat.

Your arrogant assumption that you have more employees that live in my city pretty much puts paid to your credibility. Employ over 3 million, do you?

Sure it doesn't have anything to do with just bare-ass fortune you sit on raw materials that China needs??

Kuwait and Saudi Arabia have good economic balance sheet too - for exactly the same reason.

Don't fool yourselves you are good economic managers - you are expensive, you tax your people too much and you attract "something for nothing" sh*t people to turn up in boats.

USA digs up and sells more than we do. So how come you dont apply that rule to yourself?

its not about mining or any other aspect of the economy. it is about managing what you have properly and staying out of debt - something USA has been truly woeful at. Like everything in life, it is not about your skills or giftings - it is about how you use them to their maximum and doing so responsibly. I wish I could say you could understand that but I doubt it. Im sure everything in your life has a dollar value attached to it.

The USA also has a population 17-18 times that of Australia.
You look at your revenue from mining per person and compare that to the United States.

This country has to support an expanse across it.
Australia literally has to support 5 cities on the coast and a little bit in between.

Comparing apples with batteries basically.

Back to top

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

IP Logged

gold_medal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 3897
Gender: male

Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #203 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:48pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

I actively care about the company, its goals, my divisions and their staff and all of the other things.

But to have legislation in Australia where an employee can come back after taking off 12 months and tell us they will only work 2 or 3 days and we have to accommodate that is beyond absurd.

We are giving them off 12 months, the role is kept open.
That's how it works here. Why should they change the role and why should they be able to?

Do you not see the issue with that?

Maybe you should rename yourself Mr Inflexible. It's one thing to disagree with a policy but you seem uniquely incapable of coping with it. it's just all too hard for you!

Back to top

IP Logged

gold_medal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 3897
Gender: male

Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #204 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:51pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:47pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:46pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:37pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:17pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

We had a great long meeting not long ago on the legislation that is "Fair Work Australia" about our staff in the ANZ offices.

Seriously, the stuff in there left the room in silence.

Aside from a VP of the company who turned to me (knowing I originally had come from Australia) and said "You guys are a bunch of fking Commies".....

To be fair though. American companies treat their employees like crap. While I agree that FairWork is a retrograde step, your comments are even worse. Americans do tend to consider the bottom-line the only consideration. And I must repeat that despite these obligations, our economy is world-best while the American economy is well... looming into double-dip recession after only just avoiding depression. It is hardly an endorsement of your profit-at-all-costs mentality. There is a balance to be sought but Im not sure you have the slightest clue what that is or even means. Im sure that if you were permitted to halve employye salaries and remove all benefits and perks you would in a hearbeat.

Your arrogant assumption that you have more employees that live in my city pretty much puts paid to your credibility. Employ over 3 million, do you?

Sure it doesn't have anything to do with just bare-ass fortune you sit on raw materials that China needs??

Kuwait and Saudi Arabia have good economic balance sheet too - for exactly the same reason.

Don't fool yourselves you are good economic managers - you are expensive, you tax your people too much and you attract "something for nothing" sh*t people to turn up in boats.

USA digs up and sells more than we do. So how come you dont apply that rule to yourself?

its not about mining or any other aspect of the economy. it is about managing what you have properly and staying out of debt - something USA has been truly woeful at. Like everything in life, it is not about your skills or giftings - it is about how you use them to their maximum and doing so responsibly. I wish I could say you could understand that but I doubt it. Im sure everything in your life has a dollar value attached to it.

The USA also has a population 17-18 times that of Australia.
You look at your revenue from mining per person and compare that to the United States.

This country has to support an expanse across it.
Australia literally has to support 5 cities on the coast and a little bit in between.

Comparing apples with batteries basically.

ACtually you are dead wrong and Im surprised someone with your education gets it so wrong. yes we have 1/17the the population of USA. but the country is the same size and it may surprise you to learnn that there is a country outside of capital cities. ACtual towns with industry and agriculture (have you ever seen a dirty road?) Economies of scale play to the USA's advantage, not ours.

For someone who claims to be an Australian you seem to know very little about the country.

Back to top

IP Logged

Andrei.Hicks

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23818
Carlsbad, CA
Gender: male

Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #205 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:51pm

gold_medal wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:47pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:42pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:14pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:07pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:05pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 11:45am:

It's got nothing to do with setting up payroll.

We're in the top 10 biggest companies in the world and have more power than the country of Australia itself.
We probably have more part time employees paid than live in your city.

This is about the role.
Why should we have to find a 2 day per week role for someone because they want to fit in with their lifestyle.

We have a job, we kept it open for you (fine with that) but its not a 2 day per week role.

Take it back or bugger off somewhere else.

That's how it works elsewhere but Aussies being the fking socialists they are seem to think we should be bent over backwards.

You're far too soft.

We look after our people. I child has a better upbringing if the mother works part time vs full time. The mother is more productive (per hour) part time than full time.
A working mother is more productive to the country, even at 2-3 days a week, than a non working mother.
Anyway, the part time is only for a few years until the kid is school age, when most career mothers go back to full time work.

I'm sure being the arsehole you are, you'll find a way to sack her, and put that family into financial stress.

And what do you suppose the business does with a 5 day per week role that the person coming back wants to do 2 days?

Just drop 3 days onto other workers?

Or increase the headcount (and all the atttributed expense) to suit in with an employee.

The horse following the cart isn't it?

Another example of a pig headed ignorant management approach.

For a start, youve had a year to think about it, probably 1.5 years since she told you she was pregnant. Start planning ahead.

Secondly, you've managed "somehow" (god knows how with your inflexibility) to survive without her for 12 months.

And finally, it would be highly unlikely if her division is exactly the same size (budget, headcount) as it was when she left.

And double finally, if you are a big organisation its very easy to accomodate shifting work patterns, as they tend to even out.

Your problem here is pig headed inflexible management driven by misguided ideology and a hatred of their workers.

Do you have any idea how US multi-nationals work from a perspective of headcount and divisional management?

1) Employee announces pregnant
2) Headcount hire is approve for backfill for 12 month pregnancy period
3) 12 month contractor brought in - like for like salary - headcount remains static so as not dis-balance the profitability ratio
4) Employee returns, contractor leaves

Boom.
No headcount increase, marginal increase in OpEx from recruitment fees but being the size of the company we are we can bully them down to a low price and OpEx remains under control.

Now think about the Aussie situation -

Employee comes back to 2 days a week??
Why should we have to increase headcount or OpEx to suit in with them personally?
Who are they to tell us what to do?
Plus how engaged will they be after 5pm? We need office staff to be able to put the hours in when needed - they will be less able now.

What do we do with the other 3 days?
Increase the headcount?
Find someone for just 3 days? Find another role?

It's absurd. You can see why Americans think the law is a joke.

So you are saying that it is all too hard for you to handle? Im sure your intellect is up to the challenge so what is the problem?

I am not saying that at all.
I am saying as a company, a top listed multi-national, we have a duty to our shareholders to deliver a maximum return.

Our revenue is impacted by external areas out of control, such as price per barrel, conflict, supply etc.

Therefore it is imperative we keep things within our control, in control and thats OpEx.

One of the biggest areas of OpEx is headcount management and salaries & wages.
To have an employee dictate to us what they will work and when is quite frankly absurd and takes control of our salaries out of our hands.
Our headcount metrics are askew, we are not operating with optimum headcount control, we are heavy in salaries, we have payroll tax paying which we could avoid, we have an employee not 100% engaged beyond 9-5 etc etc

We don't have this issue in North America. Well we do a bit in Canada, but its not as bad as Australia.

Back to top

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

IP Logged

Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2. Reply #206 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:53pm gold_medal wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:51pm: For someone who claims to be an Australian you seem to know very little about the country. I have spent less than 8% of my life in Australia. I have never claimed to be Mick Dundee.
Back to top	Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde IP Logged

Andrei.Hicks

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23818
Carlsbad, CA
Gender: male

Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #207 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:54pm

Dnarever wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:47pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:37pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:17pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

We had a great long meeting not long ago on the legislation that is "Fair Work Australia" about our staff in the ANZ offices.

Seriously, the stuff in there left the room in silence.

Aside from a VP of the company who turned to me (knowing I originally had come from Australia) and said "You guys are a bunch of fking Commies".....

To be fair though. American companies treat their employees like crap. While I agree that FairWork is a retrograde step, your comments are even worse. Americans do tend to consider the bottom-line the only consideration. And I must repeat that despite these obligations, our economy is world-best while the American economy is well... looming into double-dip recession after only just avoiding depression. It is hardly an endorsement of your profit-at-all-costs mentality. There is a balance to be sought but Im not sure you have the slightest clue what that is or even means. Im sure that if you were permitted to halve employye salaries and remove all benefits and perks you would in a hearbeat.

Your arrogant assumption that you have more employees that live in my city pretty much puts paid to your credibility. Employ over 3 million, do you?

Sure it doesn't have anything to do with just bare-ass fortune you sit on raw materials that China needs??

Kuwait and Saudi Arabia have good economic balance sheet too - for exactly the same reason.

Don't fool yourselves you are good economic managers - you are expensive, you tax your people too much and you attract "something for nothing" sh*t people to turn up in boats.

attract "something for nothing" sh*t people to turn up in boats.

The rotten poms with the first fleet started the rot.

What about the shite people who fly in and openly admit to avoiding paying their tax.

Tax avoidance is evasion and is illegal.
If anyone admits to that, they are admitting fraud.

I don't know anyone who has done that.

Back to top

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

IP Logged

gold_medal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 3897
Gender: male

Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #208 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:57pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:47pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:42pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:14pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:07pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:05pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 11:45am:

It's got nothing to do with setting up payroll.

We're in the top 10 biggest companies in the world and have more power than the country of Australia itself.
We probably have more part time employees paid than live in your city.

This is about the role.
Why should we have to find a 2 day per week role for someone because they want to fit in with their lifestyle.

We have a job, we kept it open for you (fine with that) but its not a 2 day per week role.

Take it back or bugger off somewhere else.

That's how it works elsewhere but Aussies being the fking socialists they are seem to think we should be bent over backwards.

You're far too soft.

We look after our people. I child has a better upbringing if the mother works part time vs full time. The mother is more productive (per hour) part time than full time.
A working mother is more productive to the country, even at 2-3 days a week, than a non working mother.
Anyway, the part time is only for a few years until the kid is school age, when most career mothers go back to full time work.

I'm sure being the arsehole you are, you'll find a way to sack her, and put that family into financial stress.

And what do you suppose the business does with a 5 day per week role that the person coming back wants to do 2 days?

Just drop 3 days onto other workers?

Or increase the headcount (and all the atttributed expense) to suit in with an employee.

The horse following the cart isn't it?

Another example of a pig headed ignorant management approach.

For a start, youve had a year to think about it, probably 1.5 years since she told you she was pregnant. Start planning ahead.

Secondly, you've managed "somehow" (god knows how with your inflexibility) to survive without her for 12 months.

And finally, it would be highly unlikely if her division is exactly the same size (budget, headcount) as it was when she left.

And double finally, if you are a big organisation its very easy to accomodate shifting work patterns, as they tend to even out.

Your problem here is pig headed inflexible management driven by misguided ideology and a hatred of their workers.

Do you have any idea how US multi-nationals work from a perspective of headcount and divisional management?

1) Employee announces pregnant
2) Headcount hire is approve for backfill for 12 month pregnancy period
3) 12 month contractor brought in - like for like salary - headcount remains static so as not dis-balance the profitability ratio
4) Employee returns, contractor leaves

Boom.
No headcount increase, marginal increase in OpEx from recruitment fees but being the size of the company we are we can bully them down to a low price and OpEx remains under control.

Now think about the Aussie situation -

Employee comes back to 2 days a week??
Why should we have to increase headcount or OpEx to suit in with them personally?
Who are they to tell us what to do?
Plus how engaged will they be after 5pm? We need office staff to be able to put the hours in when needed - they will be less able now.

What do we do with the other 3 days?
Increase the headcount?
Find someone for just 3 days? Find another role?

It's absurd. You can see why Americans think the law is a joke.

So you are saying that it is all too hard for you to handle? Im sure your intellect is up to the challenge so what is the problem?

I am not saying that at all.
I am saying as a company, a top listed multi-national, we have a duty to our shareholders to deliver a maximum return.

Our revenue is impacted by external areas out of control, such as price per barrel, conflict, supply etc.

Therefore it is imperative we keep things within our control, in control and thats OpEx.

One of the biggest areas of OpEx is headcount management and salaries & wages.
To have an employee dictate to us what they will work and when is quite frankly absurd and takes control of our salaries out of our hands.
Our headcount metrics are askew, we are not operating with optimum headcount control, we are heavy in salaries, we have payroll tax paying which we could avoid, we have an employee not 100% engaged beyond 9-5 etc etc

We don't have this issue in North America. Well we do a bit in Canada, but its not as bad as Australia.

that is the standard copout - shareholders and is used as an excsue for EVERYTHING - except of course for the $400M CEO salary (yes there have been such).

How much does you CEO make?

Back to top

IP Logged

Andrei.Hicks

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23818
Carlsbad, CA
Gender: male

Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #209 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:58pm

gold_medal wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:57pm: