Australian Politics Forum - Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.

Bobby.

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Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #225 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 10:23am

Even the Libbos think Tony will bring back workchoices.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/07/23/essential-workchoices-data-retention-will-li...

Quote:

There’s been a slight rise in the number of voters who believe the Liberals will bring back WorkChoices in government, to 53% from 51% in November, but still below the levels of 2010. While Labor and Greens voters are strongly of the view that a prime minister Abbott would bring back WorkChoices, even many Liberal voters remain convinced he would, with 40% of Liberal voters believing the party would bring it back to 34% who don’t. The level of voters “very concerned” about the return of WorkChoices has also gone up, to 30% from 26% in November. This is higher even than in 2010, possibly suggesting the “productivity debate”, such as it is, has turned voters’ minds back onto IR. The total number of voters very or quite concerned has risen from 46% from 41%. Concern is strongest among Labor voters and full-time workers.

Voters are also more likely to think Australian workers will be worse off under an Abbott government. Thirty seven per cent believe workers will be worse off, while 32% think they’ll be better off; 19% believe there would be no difference. The response was strongly split along party lines, not surprisingly, although Liberal voters, at 22%, were much more likely to believe an Abbott government wouldn’t make any difference to workers.

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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30066 Gender:	Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2. Reply #226 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 10:54am Abort is an intellectual nobody with no vision
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Prevailing Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7169 Stop Men	Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2. Reply #227 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 10:56am Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 10:54am: Abort is an intellectual nobody with no vision So is Gillard & Milne for that matter...
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Bobby.

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Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #228 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:00am

Prevailing wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 10:56am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 10:54am:

Abort is an intellectual nobody with no vision Sad

So is Gillard & Milne for that matter...

Good post prevailing.

You know -
Gillard & Abbott are such unimaginative dunces that I think
that neither of them will be leading their party at the next election.

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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30066 Gender:	Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2. Reply #229 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:02am The issue for the libbos is that nobody trusts phony Tony He is always on the news doing the rounds of businesses to shore up his work choices mandate
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Dnarever

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Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #230 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:16am

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 8:01am:

Andrei,
Quote:

In comparison I quite like the Liberal Party policies.

What are Tony's policies?

All we know is that he's going to stop the boats
& he's bringing back workchoices.

He is that keen to stop the boats that he is currently making sure they are not stopped and is blocking legislation which would allow him to stop them if elected.

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Dnarever

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Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #231 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:19am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

You need to appreciate the difference between paying industry standard for your SLT members and paying additional headcount for no reason.

One if worked into your budget, the other is completely additional to operating at optimum, which is what we commit to shareholders.

appreciate the difference between paying industry standard for your

SLT members

I am inpressed you employ SLT employees - Sri Lanka Telecom employees.

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Prevailing Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7169 Stop Men	Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2. Reply #232 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:26am Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 10:54am: Abort is an intellectual nobody with no vision So is Gillard & Milne for that matter...
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 103107 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2. Reply #233 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:28am Prevailing wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 11:26am: Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 10:54am: Abort is an intellectual nobody with no vision So is Gillard & Milne for that matter... I already replied to that post.
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Soren

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Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #234 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 3:06pm

Gist wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 1:46pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 1:41pm:

Dnarever wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 11:08am:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 9:00am:

Wow you lefties can be paranoid dunces! There is no Workchoices. There is the possibility of some industrial relations legisltaion changes just as every government has done every time. Or are you trying to say that Fiarwork is so good it needs no changes? Is that why they had a review which was the best example of a government-intiated review in that all the panel could do is say the FW was doing what was intended, not whther it was any good or not.

Get over it. Industrial relations changes are part of life and always will be.

Get over it. Industrial relations changes are part of life and always will be

Yes and if you want to see some drastic changes which will disadvantage workers vote for Tnoy or if you are a worker and think that your pay levels and working conditions are too generous then Tnoy can and will fix that for you.

Nowadays everyone is fooken disadvantaged if he doesn't have his life exactly as he dreamed it when he was 10.

I am sick of the 'disadvantaged'. For them everything is someone else's fooken responsibility.

I dream of continuing in my job until I'm ready to throw it in. I dream of keeping my pay and conditions just as they are. I dream of regular pay reviews and rises in line with my contribution to the organisation. I'd be disadvantaged if Lieberals make any kind of change to those dreams.

And I don't see why I shouldn't argue very loudly to make sure they don't.

I am not talking about you - you are not 'disadvantaged'.

You go to the shops but not to keep buying the more expensive but inferior product on offer. Same with labour - why pay labour that is less productive but more expensive? It makes sense up to a point - community, local talent and educating the next generation and so forth - but that doesn't outweigh every consideration, always.
Also remember that if labour prices a product out of the market, the business will go bust and everyone will be out of a job.

SO wanting stagnation, wanting everything to stay as is (your attitude) contributes to jobs going offshore more than anything else.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 103107 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2. Reply #235 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 3:39pm Soren - that is a strawman fallacy argument. We want to be competitive - we just don't want workers to be exploited by Libbo bosses.
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Prevailing Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7169 Stop Men	Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2. Reply #236 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 4:52pm I wont have any fascist trying to tell me what conditions I will work or trade under -I will sue your freakin' 'rse off...
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gold_medal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3897 Gender:	Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2. Reply #237 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:01pm Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 3:39pm: Soren - that is a strawman fallacy argument. We want to be competitive - we just don't want workers to be exploited by Libbo bosses. methinks that is the only debating terminology you know while clearly not understanding it!
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Bobby.

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Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #238 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:41pm

gold_medal wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:01pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 3:39pm:

Soren - that is a strawman fallacy argument.

We want to be competitive - we just don't want
workers to be exploited by Libbo bosses.

methinks that is the only debating terminology you know while clearly not understanding it!

Gold/Longy,
you use the strawman fallacy all the time.

It's explained for you on Ozpolitcs page here:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/logical-fallacies.html#strawman

Quote:

strawman

This term is probably a reference to the middle ages, when people would build scarecrows stuffed with straw to use for military training. Strawmen are easy to defeat. In debates, people will often misrepresent the argument of their opposition, then gleefully shoot it down. Rather than explaining yourself again, just call it for what it is (provided of course you explained yourself clearly the first time).

People can set up sock puppets to pose as straw men. That is, creating a profile that disagrees with you, but makes such a poor argument that you ‘win’ the debate. Then you can point out to your detractors that you have already shown their argument to be lacking. You can even let someone else do the refuting, and just pass yourself of as ‘the enemy’ – a particularly stupid one.

McDonalds has made very good use of straw men in its recent advertising campaign where it 'debunks' a lot of the criticism made against its 'food'. For example, they debunk the myth that they're burgers are not 100% beef (ie, no car parts or fertiliser), without addressing in any meaningful way the real issue of the fat content and quality of that beef.

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gold_medal

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Re: Tony admits WORKCHOICES round 2.
Reply #239 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 7:14pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:41pm:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:01pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 3:39pm:

Soren - that is a strawman fallacy argument.

We want to be competitive - we just don't want
workers to be exploited by Libbo bosses.

methinks that is the only debating terminology you know while clearly not understanding it!

Gold/Longy,
you use the strawman fallacy all the time.

It's explained for you on Ozpolitcs page here:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/logical-fallacies.html#strawman

Quote:

strawman

This term is probably a reference to the middle ages, when people would build scarecrows stuffed with straw to use for military training. Strawmen are easy to defeat. In debates, people will often misrepresent the argument of their opposition, then gleefully shoot it down. Rather than explaining yourself again, just call it for what it is (provided of course you explained yourself clearly the first time).

People can set up sock puppets to pose as straw men. That is, creating a profile that disagrees with you, but makes such a poor argument that you ‘win’ the debate. Then you can point out to your detractors that you have already shown their argument to be lacking. You can even let someone else do the refuting, and just pass yourself of as ‘the enemy’ – a particularly stupid one.

McDonalds has made very good use of straw men in its recent advertising campaign where it 'debunks' a lot of the criticism made against its 'food'. For example, they debunk the myth that they're burgers are not 100% beef (ie, no car parts or fertiliser), without addressing in any meaningful way the real issue of the fat content and quality of that beef.

But funnily enough it is the ONLY logical fallacy you ever complain about while indulging in such incredible illogical statements of all kinds.

You often try to 'prove the rule by exception' which should be pretty embarrassing for anyone who claims a university education as you do. And there are other logical errors. Plus there is you sychophancy... (look it up).

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Poll
Question: Do you trust Tony Abbott?
yes 7 (26.9%) no 18 (69.2%) not sure 1 (3.8%) Total votes: 26 « Created by: Bobby. on: Aug 4^th, 2012 at 8:19am »