freediver wrote on Aug 24^th, 2012 at 8:08am:


I don't believe I have. I believe as usual you are just concocting this garbage as you go.

I am doing nothing of the kind. All that's transpired here is bobby has claimed something is contained in the Qur'an, I've stated it is not. Nothing to do with what I believe at all.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 24^th, 2012 at 7:37am:


It does not state it in those words, nor in other words.

Again I ask, if it exists, then please do produce it. Surely you could google it if such a passage did exist? Surely the anti-Islamic hate sites would have an abundance of references to it out there.

The Qur'an:
Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"

Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."   

Other verses that seem to support the many Hadith demanding death for apostates are Qur'an verses 2:217, 9:73-74, 88:21, 5:54, and 9:66. 



From the Hadith:



The reason why executing apostates has always been well-ensconced in Islamic law is that there is an indisputable record of Muhammad and his companions doing exactly that according to the reliable Hadith.  According to verse 4:80 of the Quran: "Whoso obeyeth the Messenger obeyeth Allah."



Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "  Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.



Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."



Bukhari (84:57) - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"



Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."



Bukhari (84:58) - "There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, 'Who is this (man)?'  Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.'  Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.'  Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'"



Bukhari (84:64-65) - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.'"



Abu Dawud (4346) - "Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him?"  Muhammad is chastising his companions for allowing an apostate to "repent" under duress.  (The person in question was Muhammad's former scribe who left him after doubting the authenticity of divine "revelations" upon finding out that he could suggest grammatical changes.  He was brought back to Muhammad after having been captured in Medina).



Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1 - "When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed."  (o8.4 affirms that there is no penalty for killing an apostate).

OK Abu - I googled it and you are WRONG.
You must kill all Apostates -
nothing less than the Koran forces you to obey!

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

    2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Soren wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2012 at 10:41pm:


Islam and Muslims have always been known specifically for their honesty. That's why some entire nations like Indonesia entered into Islam, was largely due to the honesty and upright character of the Muslim traders they encountered.

You can retrospectively try and re-write history if you like, but I think you know deep down you are distorting it for your own purposes.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 21^st, 2012 at 8:07pm:


I want it for the entire world, not specifically Australia.

I think all mankind should live under the shade of Islam.

Just as I'm sure you'd like to see the entire world living under whatever ideals you consider to be the right ones.

That's not what fd is asking though, he's attempting to claim I am going to force it onto people or "introduce it by stealth" or some other nonsense.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 21^st, 2012 at 9:27pm:


Freediver has used the word impotence in relation to your ability to implement sharia law.

The desire is there yet you cannot get it, i think FD nailed it.

http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Muslims_Only.jpg