Australian Politics Forum - does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?

Big Dave Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2164 Gender:	Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia? Reply #30 - Aug 6^th, 2012 at 2:05pm Syria is a muslim nation , so it is muslims killing muslims. Look it up Spot. Just the same as in Egypt, Libya and Afghanistan
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Big Dave

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #31 - Aug 6^th, 2012 at 4:49pm

Islam would have to be the most divided religon on earth. Firstly you have the nations that hate each other. Jordon hates Syria while Iran hates Iraq etc etc. Then you have the races that hate one another. Persians dislike arabs while they all look down on the black muslims. Then you have the tribes (gangs). E.g I was watching a doco on the Australian Army in Afghanistan the other day. They passed through a village and were given fruit while a couple of kms down the road they were being shot at. Then you have the family groups that want to kill each other for whatever silly reason. The only thing they have in common is that they all hate the jews and the USA. Then you go on Aussie Muslim. com and they're calling each other brother and sister. It starts from the ground up (family to country). I can't see how muslims even have a common law (sharia). There isn't any law except the law of the gun. That's where the Taliban comes in.

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freediver

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #32 - Aug 6^th, 2012 at 6:26pm

Spot:

Quote:

Like i have said several time and Abu saw it but you are selectively blind - i know all religions want to impose their beliefs on everyone else.

You seem to have made an exception for Islam. Just look at your quotes in the opening post. They are all about reading the most benign possible intent into what Abu did not say.

Quote:

However the threat in australia is the xtians not the muslims. The xtians are closer to imposing their crap on the rest of us than the muslims.

I think the threat of external war and internal or external terrorism is far greater than either. Here again it would help for both you and Abu to acknowledge the reality - not about the magnitude of the threat, but of the underlying forces of what people want. If you cannot bring yourself to admit to what people want then you have no hope at all of assessing the threat they pose.

Quote:

Abu is not personally trying to bring it about. I had thought he was a radical from all the crap you have been saying about him but he may just be a normal religious person.

Again, you are reading an aweful lot into what he does not say, while flat out rejecting what he does say - eg when he openly admits to rejecting freedom and democracy and feeling a moral imperative to change Australia.

Quote:

WTF? You are misrepresenting again. I sussed out if we were in immanent danger from abu and/or his group and we are not as far as i can tell.

You pretty much begged him to lie to you, and when he refused to do that you made it up instead. That is why you have to put words into his mouth rather than quote him, and refuse to ask for clarification when he gives childish excuses for not offering a straight answer.

Quote:

I used your questions in fact. Of course he wants his religion too be dominant in the world - all religious ppl do however the muslims in australia seem to be striving to have it for themselves first rather than everyone else.

You used my questions and got the same non-answer I did, then proceded to pretend that you got what you wanted to hear.

What does this mean spot? How hard do you have to 'strive' to obey your own rules? Does that mean you aren't striving to impose them on others?

Quote:

Maybe but it isnt the cause of the problem.

So the fact that they want to kill each other has nothing to do with the fact that they are killing each other? Is this another example of you 'sussing out' the threat?

Quote:

The cause is the lack of law and order and outside interference.

How does this contradict what I said - that as soon as there is a power a vacuum they start killing each other? It seems a bit silly to blame the power vacuum.

Quote:

If there was not such law and order in western countries we would have the same violence between xtian sects.

We have had breakdowns of law and order before. The violence between religious sects did not emerge. They come a far distant second to purely political struggles, and have done for centuries.

Abu:

Quote:

It is not about religion, it is about secularists wanting to eradicate Muslims.

So why are you so afraid to talk about your views on Shites, other than to denounce them as not being Muslims and blame them and other sects for the violence?

Quote:

In the video above, you can see they mock religion by prostrating to Bashar al-Assad.

So tell us Abu, what is the appropriate punishment for mocking religion? If the world were to 'let muslims be muslims' what would their fate be?

Quote:

Firstly the Alawites are not even considered Shi'ites.

You mentioned Shites first Abu. But OK, seeing as you cannot bring yourself to discuss them, can you tell us what the appropriate Islamic punishment is for being an alawite?

Dave:

Quote:

The thing that gets me is how everything is the blame of the west when muslims start killing one another. It was some past colonial power that left a power vacuum 70 years ago or some western created puppet government. Syria has been one of the most closed of muslim nations for many decades. Everything thing that is happening there is their own doing. Muslims have killed one another for century upon century. Remember the Iran/Iraq War Abu.

You might find this enlightening. It is back from when Abu was not so afraid to give a straight answer:

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 6:29pm:

sprint,

Quote:

abu - you dont blieve ANYTHING untoward said about ANY muslim EVER.

Generally, no, I don't. I try to always think good about Muslims, and make excuses for them. This is an Islamic etiquette, like it or lump it.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 15^th, 2008 at 9:42am:

Quote:

Could you elbaborate on this 'Islamic etiquette' please Abu?

The first rule is to extend to a Muslim the benefit of the doubt

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 15^th, 2008 at 8:02pm:

Quote:

Every single post of yours is riddled with bias and bigotry, which you yourself recently have admitted

Yes, i can admit I am biased towards Islam

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 15^th, 2008 at 4:20pm:

Also it can be further understood by supporting hadiths such as this one:

"Whosoever conceals the faults of a Muslim, Allah will conceal his faults in this world and the Hereafter. Allah will aid a servant (of His) so long as the servant aids his brother."

Quote:

Didnt he just explain that it wasnt muslims killing each other?

No Spot. Again you are reading what you want to read rather than what is actually there. He denounced one side as not being Muslims. However, he even does this for Shites. He claimed it has nothing to do with religion, then went on to complain about how the 'other side' had an incorrect interpretation of Islam. Think about it. It is like a Protestant saying that the problems in Ireland have nothing at all to do with religion because the Catholics are not even religious. You go to absurd lengths to excuse Islam's role in this violence, yet happily make sweeping generalisations about other religions being th cause of violence. Why the double standard?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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abu_rashid

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #33 - Aug 6^th, 2012 at 8:35pm

Big Dave wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 9:37am:

The thing that gets me is how everything is the blame of the west when muslims start killing one another. It was some past colonial power that left a power vacuum 70 years ago or some western created puppet government. Syria has been one of the most closed of muslim nations for many decades. Everything thing that is happening there is their own doing. Muslims have killed one another for century upon century. Remember the Iran/Iraq War Abu.

Big Dave wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 2:05pm:

Syria is a muslim nation , so it is muslims killing muslims. Look it up Spot. Just the same as in Egypt, Libya and Afghanistan

Big Dave,

The Western colonialist powers left certain minorities in charge of certain countries for a good reason. I don't think anyone can doubt the divide and rule policies of the colonialists.

Although Syria has a largely Muslim population, the country itself has been ruled by the ideology of Ba'athism for the past 60 or so years. There's nothing "muslim" about Ba'athism, it is an anti-Islamic Nazi-like ideology, which has oppressed Muslims all over the Arab world since it was first founded as a movement.

You seem to be operating under some really ignorant delusion that if a country is Arabic, therefore it's a "muslim" country, ruling by Islam, and representing Islam and that all of its interactions and transactions stem from Islam and have some connection to Islam. This is just ludicrous.

Syria is a nation of Muslims who have been suppressed under a Ba'athist regime. The situation there is a result of Ba'athism being forced onto a people, nothing more nothing less.

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia? Reply #34 - Aug 6^th, 2012 at 8:42pm But you are a pack of desert dogs with no order. You know we could drive you into the sea if we so wish yes? Everyday you should be grateful we showed Arabs mercy when they stupidly attack us.
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freediver

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #35 - Aug 6^th, 2012 at 8:46pm

Quote:

You seem to be operating under some really ignorant delusion that if a country is Arabic, therefore it's a "muslim" country, ruling by Islam, and representing Islam and that all of its interactions and transactions stem from Islam and have some connection to Islam. This is just ludicrous.

Of course. It is all George Bush's fault that Muslims slaughter each other at every opportunity.

Quote:

There's nothing "muslim" about Ba'athism, it is an anti-Islamic Nazi-like ideology

Tell us how many Jews Muhammed slaughtered Abu.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Big Dave Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2164 Gender:	Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia? Reply #36 - Aug 6^th, 2012 at 8:59pm Thje French pulled out of Syria in 1946 Abu . That's almost 70 years ago!!! The bloodshed is a Syrian issue and nobody elses. These muslims are unbelievable and dillusional man!!! They even blame some past colonial era for their inability to get along in the modern world.
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abu_rashid

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #37 - Aug 6^th, 2012 at 10:25pm

freediver wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 8:46pm:

Of course. It is all George Bush's fault that Muslims slaughter each other at every opportunity.

When you get the concept that Muslims are not slaughtering Muslims in Syria, then maybe we can discuss the issue. Study up on the situation there, Muslims are attempting to rid themselves of the tyrannical Ba'athist regime, as are other Syrians, Christians, Alawites & Druze.

freediver wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 8:46pm:

Tell us how many Jews Muhammed slaughtered Abu.

You've yet to show he slaughtered any Jew.

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #38 - Aug 6^th, 2012 at 10:37pm

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 10:25pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 8:46pm:

Of course. It is all George Bush's fault that Muslims slaughter each other at every opportunity.

When you get the concept that Muslims are not slaughtering Muslims in Syria, then maybe we can discuss the issue. Study up on the situation there, Muslims are attempting to rid themselves of the tyrannical Ba'athist regime, as are other Syrians, Christians, Alawites & Druze.

freediver wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 8:46pm:

Tell us how many Jews Muhammed slaughtered Abu.

You've yet to show he slaughtered any Jew.

Muslims are killing Muslims in Syria.
That is fact.

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Bobby.

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #39 - Aug 6^th, 2012 at 11:09pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 10:37pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 10:25pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 8:46pm:

Of course. It is all George Bush's fault that Muslims slaughter each other at every opportunity.

When you get the concept that Muslims are not slaughtering Muslims in Syria, then maybe we can discuss the issue. Study up on the situation there, Muslims are attempting to rid themselves of the tyrannical Ba'athist regime, as are other Syrians, Christians, Alawites & Druze.

freediver wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 8:46pm:

Tell us how many Jews Muhammed slaughtered Abu.

You've yet to show he slaughtered any Jew.

Muslims are killing Muslims in Syria.
That is fact.

Hi Avram,
they are barbaric animals still stuck in the bronze age with modern weapons.

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abu_rashid

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #40 - Aug 6^th, 2012 at 11:22pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 10:37pm:

Muslims are killing Muslims in Syria.
That is fact.

I understand _your_ confusion Avram, since your religion is all mixed in with your ethnicity. Our religion is not like that. The Ba'athists may be Arabs, but they are not Muslims. Muslims (and other Syrians, Christians, Druze & Alawites etc) are fighting against Ba'athists, not against fellow Muslims.

So if a Druze soldier in the FSA kills an atheist Ba'athist, then you label this as "Muslims killing Muslims"?? Because both are Arabs?? And you don't have the basic intellect required to distinguish between them??

That false claim is a reflection of your low intellect, not of the facts.

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Yadda

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #41 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 1:36am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 4:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 5^th, 2012 at 3:15pm:

Hi Avram,
I am learning about them.
As we speak they are executing women & children in cold blood in Syria
& yelling Allah Akbar.

That isnt because they are muslim - its because they live in Syria and they have problems (we dont know yet who is causing them). They just happen to be muslims.

SOB

When moslems murder.....

Quote:

That isnt because they are muslim............They just happen to be muslims.

Yadda makes a comment;

IMAGE...

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #42 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 2:09am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 6:20am:

Quote:

So why are you so keen to deny that Abu wants Shariah law for Australia? Do you think pretending Muslims don't want this is an effective way to counter the movement?

WTF? You are misrepresenting again. I sussed out if we were in immanent danger from abu and/or his group and we are not as far as i can tell. I used your questions in fact. Of course he wants his religion too be dominant in the world - all religious ppl do however the muslims in australia seem to be striving to have it for themselves first rather than everyone else.

Imminent danger ?

So, IN YOUR OPINION, we are NOT in danger from moslems [.....living in Australia].

But we are in 'danger' from 'xtians'. http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1344119653/5#5

SPOT,
How do you define this 'danger', which emanates from 'xtians' ?

Are those Christians 'extremists' perhaps ???

e.g.
Have these 'xtians' burnt any witches lately ???

This below, rather, sounds dangerous, and extreme, to me.....

e.g. #1,
Quote:

"[a respected moslem community spokesman has] called on Australian Muslims to spurn secular democracy and Western notions of moderate Islam...
...[moslems in Australia were told] that democracy is "haram" (forbidden) for Muslims, whose political engagement should be be based purely on Islamic law.
"We must adhere to Islam and Islam alone," Mr Hanif [said]"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/australia-members-of-hizb-ut-tahrir-say-countr...

e.g. #2,

Australian Islamic leader defends jihad.
".....Abu Bakr says he does not accept other religions.
"I am telling you that my religion doesn't tolerate other religion. It doesn't tolerate," he said.
"The only one law which needs to spread, it can be here or anywhere else, is Islam." "

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200508/s1430551.htm

e.g. #3,
GOOD AUSTRALIAN BORN MOSLEM SPEAKS TO AN AUSTRALIAN *MOSLEM* AUDIENCE

Use children as troops, says cleric [Sheik Feiz Mohammed]
January 18, 2007
..."We want to have children and offer them as soldiers...Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior). Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom."
......"The peak, the pinnacle, the crest, the highest point, the pivot, the summit of Islam is jihad," he declares in the film, before denouncing "kaffirs" (non-Muslims).
"Kaffir is the worst word ever written, a sign of infidelity, disbelief, filth, a sign of dirt."

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=94224
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014863.php

Hey SPOT,
Who are the 'Kaffir' that this AUSTRALIAN BORN MOSLEM is speaking of ???

What is a 'Kaffir' SPOT ???

#3,
SAME GOOD MOSLEM SPEAKS TO NON-MOSLEM AUDIENCE - showing his blatant deceit
Fiery Australian cleric claims jihad remarks were misunderstood

"The jihad I speak of is not one of violence,"...
"I don't believe in suicide bombing. I don't believe in violence against others," he said. "We denounce that. This is not Islamic law and it is not moral."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/01/fiery-australian-cleric-claims-jihad-remarks-w...

Sheik Feiz declares;

"....violence against others,..This is not Islamic law and it is not moral.";

Sheik Feiz Mohammed's declaration is made in the face of this open declaration in the Koran.....

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #43 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 2:24am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 10:05am:

Big Dave wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 9:37am:

The thing that gets me is how everything is the blame of the west when muslims start killing one another. It was some past colonial power that left a power vacuum 70 years ago or some western created puppet government. Syria has been one of the most closed of muslim nations for many decades. Everything thing that is happening there is their own doing. Muslims have killed one another for century upon century. Remember the Iran/Iraq War Abu.

Didnt he just explain that it wasnt muslims killing each other?

Are you getting "middle eastern" mixed up with "muslim"?

SOB

SPOT,

And didn't Yadda just explain, that EACH SIDE IN THIS CONFLICT WITHIN SYRIA, considers the other side to be the infidel ???

Quote:

"Conviction is the art of being certain"
the sig line of NorthOfNorth, helian.

The Alawite moslems [i.e. the Syrian government forces] consider the Sunni moslem faction to be infidels.

And the Sunni moslem faction [i.e. the insurgents] consider the Alawite moslems to be infidels.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1333935983/0#0

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #44 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 4:37am

Big Dave wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 4:49pm:

Islam would have to be the most divided religon on earth. Firstly you have the nations that hate each other. Jordon hates Syria while Iran hates Iraq etc etc. Then you have the races that hate one another. Persians dislike arabs while they all look down on the black muslims. Then you have the tribes (gangs). E.g I was watching a doco on the Australian Army in Afghanistan the other day. They passed through a village and were given fruit while a couple of kms down the road they were being shot at. Then you have the family groups that want to kill each other for whatever silly reason. The only thing they have in common is that they all hate the jews and the USA. Then you go on Aussie Muslim. com and they're calling each other brother and sister. It starts from the ground up (family to country). I can't see how muslims even have a common law (sharia). There isn't any law except the law of the gun. That's where the Taliban comes in.

Hahahaha Catholics mormons jws, scientologists, 7th day adventists, baptists, pentacostals, AOE, AOG, etc etc etc etc

SOB

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