Australian Politics Forum - does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?

Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #45 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 4:50am

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You seem to have made an exception for Islam. Just look at your quotes in the opening post. They are all about reading the most benign possible intent into what Abu did not say.

Liar. You just twist things so it looks like i do.

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I think the threat of external war and internal or external terrorism is far greater than either.

Then why did you quote my statement about internal conflict?

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Again, you are reading an aweful lot into what he does not say

you are the one reading what ppl do not say

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You pretty much begged him to lie to you, and when he refused to do that you made it up instead. That is why you have to put words into his mouth rather than quote him, and refuse to ask for clarification when he gives childish excuses for not offering a straight answer.

I used YOUR words so there would be no confusion. I see you try to confuse it anyway. Yet you never answer any questions you just accuse and distort.

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You used my questions and got the same non-answer I did

He answered the questions that were asked - they just werent the answers you wanted. He is religious just like you but your religions are different so you think he is more of a threat than you.

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We have had breakdowns of law and order before. The violence between religious sects did not emerge. They come a far distant second to purely political struggles, and have done for centuries.

No - not in australia we havent had a breakdown on par with how they live in middle eastern countries.

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No Spot. Again you are reading what you want to read rather than what is actually there. He denounced one side as not being Muslims. However, he even does this for Shites. He claimed it has nothing to do with religion, then went on to complain about how the 'other side' had an incorrect interpretation of Islam. Think about it. It is like a Protestant saying that the problems in Ireland have nothing at all to do with religion because the Catholics are not even religious. You go to absurd lengths to excuse Islam's role in this violence, yet happily make sweeping generalisations about other religions being th cause of violence. Why the double standard?

Blah blah blah blah - what has it got to do with me? Xtians do the same thing they denounce each other as not true xtians. They are biased towards themselves. They give each other "benefit of the doubt". Its all the same. Religion. You ppl always think your religion is the 1 thats different than all the others but they are all the same.

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Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26509 Australia	Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia? Reply #46 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 4:51am Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 8:42pm: But you are a pack of desert dogs with no order. You know we could drive you into the sea if we so wish yes? Everyday you should be grateful we showed Arabs mercy when they stupidly attack us. When they defend themselves and you call it attack? SOB
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #47 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 4:53am

freediver wrote on Aug 6^th, 2012 at 8:46pm:

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You seem to be operating under some really ignorant delusion that if a country is Arabic, therefore it's a "muslim" country, ruling by Islam, and representing Islam and that all of its interactions and transactions stem from Islam and have some connection to Islam. This is just ludicrous.

Of course. It is all George Bush's fault that Muslims slaughter each other at every opportunity.

Haha way to not address what he said. Why am i butting in? Because you do it to me all the time.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #48 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 5:07am

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SPOT,
How do you define this 'danger', which emanates from 'xtians' ?

Are those Christians 'extremists' perhaps ???

e.g.
Have these 'xtians' burnt any witches lately ???

Yadda open your friggin eyes mate.

I already defined "the danger". All religion is dangerous IMO because @ any moment they can get violent. All religion has the capacity. However in australia ATM the threat is more of control and forcing ppl to follow their religion. Xtians want religion in schools and we are the only western country that still has the crap (actually we were rid of it for a few short years but an extremist got in power and brought it back). Xtians want to prevent gays getting married Xtians want to stop abortion. That extremist party that popped up a few years ago wanted to burn lesbians @ a stake - remember them? Who were they? Family first?

There are extremists in every religion and they are usually the dangerous ones. Abbott is extremist catholic and it will not be good if he manages to grab the power he so desperately wants (though he wont because ppl see the hate).

Yeah extremist religion promotes hate. You are an extremist yadda. When you dont like something i say you accuse me of being some other religion you hate. You try to insult me. No other religions are worthy not even other sects of your own religion. How do you feel about mormons yadda? Would you like a mormon to be in charge of this country?

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freediver

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #49 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 1:44pm

Abu:

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You've yet to show he slaughtered any Jew.

I don't need to to ask the question Abu. You have told us plenty of stories about Muhammed killing Jews, so it is a bit hypocritical for you to describe the others as Nazi-like. Any Nazi can give you a reason for it that sounds no less valid than the dodgy excuses Muslims give for slaughtering Jews.

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When you get the concept that Muslims are not slaughtering Muslims in Syria

I get that you decry anyone who doesn't share your version of Islam as not being a Muslim. I also get that you always blame the non 'Muslim' by default. You don't even have to think about it. Your bias does not change the reality.

You don't get to change the meaning of the word Muslim just to suit your blame shifting game.

Spot:

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Liar. You just twist things so it looks like i do.

No Spot. You twist everything because you are incredibly biased. Like when you outright reject what Abu says because it does not suit the pigeon hole you have put him in.

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Then why did you quote my statement about internal conflict?

Because that is what I was responding to.

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I used YOUR words so there would be no confusion.

And you did not get a straight answer, so you made one up on Abu's behalf. This is why you can only talk about what Abu "pretty much said" rather than what he actually said.

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He answered the questions that were asked - they just werent the answers you wanted.

No he didn't. He answered different questions and gave dodgy excuses for not answering, just like he did in this thread, and for some stupid reason you cannot tell the difference.

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No - not in australia we havent had a breakdown on par with how they live in middle eastern countries.

Spot has it ever occurred to you that the extent of the breakdown may be the result of all the Muslims wanting to kill Muslims?

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Blah blah blah blah - what has it got to do with me? Xtians do the same thing they denounce each other as not true xtians.

The Muslims kill each other. That is not the same thing as denouncing. It is fundamentally different - a difference you seem completely oblivious to. Ask Abu what he thinks the appropriate punishment is for these people, then you will have your reason for why they are killing each other.

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Its all the same. Religion.

Spot it is the killing each other bit that is different. If you weren't so blinded by your desire to put all religious people in the same pigeon hole you would see this.

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You ppl always think your religion is the 1 thats different than all the others but they are all the same.

How about you stick to what I actually say spot? Did you say "you people" because you know this is not in any way a reasonable response to what I posted?

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Yadda open your friggin eyes mate.

I already defined "the danger".

Most people think that people killing each other is more dangerous than people having religion or 'denouncing' each other. If you weren't so biased this would make more sense to you.

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All religion is dangerous IMO because @ any moment they can get violent.

So why are you so afraid to criticise Abu for wanting to kill apostates etc? You are so afraid you can't even bring yourself to talk about it. As soon as you get close you run away, chanting 'all religions are the same'.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #50 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 1:54pm

In australia they do not kill each other. In xtianity the penalty for worshipping other gods is death also but aussie xtians dont do that. This country has law and order and so the religions are kept under control.

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

and this one is a beauty!

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

But you dont see muslims or xtians following these directives in australia. Except the occasional psycho of course.

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Big Dave

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #51 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 3:33pm

This is how I see most australian muslims spot. They love the freedom and good life that australia offers them. Just ordinary good australians who love the place like us all. They don't want to know anybody outside their communities , families or religon at any deeper level . That's okay because most humans are like that. They'd like the place to be muslim but that aint gonna happen so they just deal with it. They mostly show manners and goodwill to people who are nice to them as Islam teaches. BUT SOME are a concern. Particularly the 2nd gen from tight-knit social groups. Some muslims in oz for personal reasons want to set their communities against the wider australian community. The love to play the victim at every opportunity. They are a danger to australia like no other group is. Several terrorist disasters have luckily been foiled. Tell me when has a christian group in oz had a terrorist plan foiled?

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freediver

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #52 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 6:22pm

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In australia they do not kill each other.

You are having a lot of trouble joining the dots here spot. In Australia they still want to kill each other. Abu wants to kill apostates. This is why he refuses to discuss what he wants and insists that the only thing 'worth discussing' is what he is able to achieve in the short term - which you of course take to mean he does not want the death penalty for apostasy.

Overseas, where they they are able to, the do punish apostasy. And of course as soon as there is a breakdown of law and order and a struggle for power, the various groups who think each other should be stoned to death for apostasy have trouble agreeing on who should get stoned to death.

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In xtianity the penalty for worshipping other gods is death also but aussie xtians dont do that.

Perhaps you should let the Christians speak for their religion. Contrary to what you say, not all religions are the same, and Islam is definitely unique in the extent to which it equates politics and religion. This is something that both Abu and his critics largely agree on, yet for some reason you refuse to acknowledge this reality. You prefer to cover your ears and chant silly little mantras about all religions being equal.

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This country has law and order and so the religions are kept under control.

Don't be so naive spot. The reason they are 'under control' is because the people control themselves. If the majority of Australia's religious people actually wanted what you attribute to them, they would have achieved it. The democracy and freedom we have today is a reflection of what Australians want. Why is it you are so willing to ascribe these things to people who don't actually believe it, but when Abu comes right out and says it you refuse to believe it?

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #53 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 7:01pm

Big Dave wrote on Aug 7^th, 2012 at 3:33pm:

This is how I see most australian muslims spot. They love the freedom and good life that australia offers them. Just ordinary good australians who love the place like us all. They don't want to know anybody outside their communities , families or religon at any deeper level . That's okay because most humans are like that. They'd like the place to be muslim but that aint gonna happen so they just deal with it. They mostly show manners and goodwill to people who are nice to them as Islam teaches. BUT SOME are a concern. Particularly the 2nd gen from tight-knit social groups. Some muslims in oz for personal reasons want to set their communities against the wider australian community. The love to play the victim at every opportunity. They are a danger to australia like no other group is. Several terrorist disasters have luckily been foiled. Tell me when has a christian group in oz had a terrorist plan foiled?

Yup some are bad. Radical muslims are not good. We dont have as lot of those here though ebcause they dont want to be here. Eveyr now and then we get one but they dont last long.

A xtian terrorist group got busted back in the early 80s or late 70s out @ lithgow. Cant remember the name of it - was a book written about it. Bad apples are bad apples and usually they have a religion to blame it on. Thing is xtians want australia to be xtian. Ive even heard idiots say australia is a xtian country (usually ppl full of yank jargon). Hindus want everywhere to be hindu. Even buddhists want everyone to be budhists.

Jews and catholics play the martyr card every chance they get BTW. Muslims are not alone in that respect.

Anyway we dont know what the heck goes on really. Media only tells us what they want us to know which is 1/2 truths lies and they just dont tell us things they dont feel like telling us. Who knows wth happens.

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freediver

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #54 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 7:06pm

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Yup some are bad.

I see you are not afraid to put it as a vague generalisation. But when you are faced with one you turn and run.

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Thing is xtians want australia to be xtian. Ive even heard idiots say australia is a xtian country (usually ppl full of yank jargon). Hindus want everywhere to be hindu. Even buddhists want everyone to be budhists.

And Muslims like Abu want to impose Shariah law on people - not exactly the same thing is it spot? But you can't admit this because it undermines your 'all religions are equal' BS.

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Anyway we dont know what the heck goes on really.

You could start by acknowledging the things that Abu has said and not putting more convenient words in his mouth.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #55 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 7:17pm

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Perhaps you should let the Christians speak for their religion.

Its in the book. Its what they believe. Isnt that what you say about the other religions?

The xtian book punishes apostasy with death also. Do you believe your book? Do you believe ppl should be put to death for not being xtian? Obviously you think muslims should be.

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about all religions being equal.

All religions are equally absurd.

In australia xtianity is more of a threat than islam.

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freediver

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #56 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 7:38pm

Quote:

Its in the book. Its what they believe. Isnt that what you say about the other religions?

No. I have never gone to the Koran and attempted to tell Muslims what they believe. Instead I ask Abu what he believes, and hold that to be his belief. I think that makes far more sense. You should try it.

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In australia xtianity is more of a threat than islam.

Yes I know you 'sussed out' the threat in about 20 seconds. If you cannot even get your head around what Abu wants what position are you in to gauge a far more complex threat?

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia? Reply #57 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 9:04pm freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2012 at 6:22pm: Abu wants to kill apostates. You've made this lying accusation so many times fd, yet never once have you produced a single quote from me stating anything like this. Either you're clairvoyant, or you're speaking outta yer rectum. You seriously have no shame.
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freediver

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #58 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 9:39pm

So what is the proper Islamic punishment for apostasy?

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 27^th, 2008 at 10:02pm:

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Abu would you kill peope like them if the appropriate situation arose - like a Caliphate?

Since I'd probably never consider state-executioner as a good career path, I highly doubt it.

If however you're insinuating (as you've done enough times before, and been told to stop being so daft) that I might be a vigilante of some kind, then all I can say is get a grip on yourself.

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Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #59 - Aug 7^th, 2012 at 9:46pm

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2012 at 6:22pm:

The democracy and freedom we have today is a reflection of what Australians want. Why is it you are so willing to ascribe these things to people who don't actually believe it, but when Abu comes right out and says it you refuse to believe it?

Mother, why do you have so much trouble taking Muslims at their own word? It is a very typical 'Guardian reader' affliction.

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