Australian Politics Forum - does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?

Sir Spot of Borg

Gold Member

Offline

WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26508
Australia

Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #60 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 5:51am

Quote:

No Spot. You twist everything because you are incredibly biased. Like when you outright reject what Abu says because it does not suit the pigeon hole you have put him in.

abu answered my question (which i phrased exactly how you asked it) that he did not have any desire to kill anyone. He said that he wanted ppl to come to islam of their own accord.

Quote:

Because that is what I was responding to.

Do you know the difference between internal and external? You know by internal i meant in australia right?

Quote:

And you did not get a straight answer, so you made one up on Abu's behalf.

He answered the question freediver. He said he had no desire to kill anyone.

Quote:

No he didn't. He answered different questions and gave dodgy excuses for not answering, just like he did in this thread, and for some stupid reason you cannot tell the difference.

I guess if you keep reinterpreting the questions they will never be answered.

Quote:

Spot has it ever occurred to you that the extent of the breakdown may be the result of all the Muslims wanting to kill Muslims?

Is it a "breakdown"? Or has it always been that way? if it is a breakdown - when did it occur?

Quote:

The Muslims kill each other. That is not the same thing as denouncing. It is fundamentally different - a difference you seem completely oblivious to. Ask Abu what he thinks the appropriate punishment is for these people, then you will have your reason for why they are killing each other.

Only in certain countries. Not in australia. dont you think theres a reason why it happens in certain places and not others? Perhaps it is environmental more than religious? perhaps the religion is just the justification?

Quote:

So why are you so afraid to criticise Abu for wanting to kill apostates etc?

Because he told me he didnt want to kill them and you have a history of distorting what ppl say so i dont believe you.

Quote:

And Muslims like Abu want to impose Shariah law on people

As i have said many times all religions want to impose themselves on ppl. There is no danger of sharia law in australia and abu has said that he is not try8ing to impose it here because he realises theres no way it will happen. Are jews trying to impose their OT laws on ppl here? No? Why not?

Some muslims in australia (i dont know if abu is one) would like sharia law for themselves and their community but they arent allowed to. that is as far as it goes.

Quote:

So what is the proper Islamic punishment for apostasy?

What is the proper xtian punishment for apostasy?

What is the proper jewish punishment for apostasy?

SOB

Back to top

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49016
At my desk.

Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #61 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 8:30am

Quote:

abu answered my question (which i phrased exactly how you asked it) that he did not have any desire to kill anyone. He said that he wanted ppl to come to islam of their own accord.

He also said that they should get the death penalty if they change their mind. Abu has some very strange ideas about what 'freely choosing' Islam means. He sees no contradiction between believing that there should be no compulsion in religion and stoning apostates to death. He thinks that freely choosing Islam should be encouraged by a system that discriminates against non-Muslims at every opportunity.

Quote:

He answered the question freediver. He said he had no desire to kill anyone.

You are confused again spot. We were actually talking about Abu wanting to impose Shariah law on people. Obviously if you forget what the question is so quickly you will have a bit of trouble noticing if Abu does not actually answer it. No wonder you haven't picked up on that yet.

Quote:

I guess if you keep reinterpreting the questions they will never be answered.

I have given you plenty of direct quotes from Abu. You simply refuse to believe them.

Quote:

There is no danger of sharia law in australia and abu has said that he is not try8ing to impose it here because he realises theres no way it will happen.

Recognising his own impotence merely means he is not completely insane. It does not men he does not want to impose Shariah on people or that he does not support it happening overseas.

Quote:

What is the proper xtian punishment for apostasy?

What is the proper jewish punishment for apostasy?

Like I said spot, Islam differs in that it is a complete legal, political, social and cultural system. Abu will agree with me on this. I am not attempting to tell any religious people what they believe. You are. I asked Abu, and Abu believes that apostates should be stoned to death. I bet you that not even Yadda believes that.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 21768
A cat with a view

Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #62 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 11:12am

freediver wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 8:30am:

Quote:

What is the proper xtian punishment for apostasy?

What is the proper jewish punishment for apostasy?

Like I said spot, Islam differs in that it is a complete legal, political, social and cultural system. Abu will agree with me on this. I am not attempting to tell any religious people what they believe. You are.

I asked Abu, and Abu believes that apostates should be stoned to death.

I bet you that not even Yadda believes that.

Correct FD.

In concluding my posts, addressing persons who disagreed with my views, i have often stated on OzPol.....

Quote:

"Go your won way.

Walk your own path."

Quote:

"You are free to believe whatever you want to believe.

And so am i."

The views that i hold about apostasy and ['religious'] belief [....i.e. that 'belief' is a personal matter, a matter of conscience], are distinctly different from what Allah and Mohammed state, as being firm doctrine.

i.e.
That unbelief [rejecting ISLAM] is a crime, against Allah.

And also, it is clear [in the light of what is revealed within ISLAMIC texts], that consequently, moslems believe that they have a lawful sanction from their god, Allah, to punish all criminals, for their 'error'.

In Australia, Australian laws, for the most part, are able to protect us [the broader Australian community] from moslem sectarian violence, directed against perceived 'unbelievers' and apostates.

And our Australian laws also prevent moslems from the violent inclination [many] Australian moslems do harbour, to try impose Sharia law in Australia.

Google;
sharia4australia

But ALL moslems living within Australia DO want to remove Australian law, and if they could, moslems living within Australia, would use force, to impose Sharia law upon all Australians.

Any moslem who would deny this, would be barefacedly lying to you.

+++

ISLAMIC texts are clear.....

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

Every moslem is obligated, to engage in the Jihad, in Allah's cause.

What is 'Jihad' ???

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #001.002.026

"A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.065
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.080i

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

abu_rashid

Gold Member

Offline

Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353

Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #63 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 9:23pm

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2012 at 9:39pm:

So what is the proper Islamic punishment for apostasy?

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 27^th, 2008 at 10:02pm:

Quote:

Abu would you kill peope like them if the appropriate situation arose - like a Caliphate?

Since I'd probably never consider state-executioner as a good career path, I highly doubt it.

If however you're insinuating (as you've done enough times before, and been told to stop being so daft) that I might be a vigilante of some kind, then all I can say is get a grip on yourself.

Where in that post exactly do I state I want to execute anyone? Please highlight it for me, because excuse my inability to find it, but it really doesn't appear to be there.

Again, I implore you, if you have even a shred of decency and credibility about you, then try saving the meagre little shred of dignity you might have left and either bring forth your supposed quote from me, or admit to being a lying swine.

Back to top

IP Logged

abu_rashid

Gold Member

Offline

Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353

Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #64 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 9:34pm

Yadda wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 11:12am:

Correct FD.

In concluding my posts, addressing persons who disagreed with my views, i have often stated on OzPol.....

Quote:

"Go your won way.

Walk your own path."

Quote:

"You are free to believe whatever you want to believe.

And so am i."

The views that i hold about apostasy and ['religious'] belief [....i.e. that 'belief' is a personal matter, a matter of conscience], are distinctly different from what Allah and Mohammed state, as being firm doctrine.

Yadda, the fact is your holy book demands the death penalty for apostasy. And up until a few centuries ago (ie. for about 80% of the entire history of Christianity) Christians were still implementing it.

The only reason you don't implement it today is because the atheists and secularists ousted you from power in the various revolutions. If not for this, you'd still be implementing it as we speak. The idea that Bible believers stopped doing this when the "New Covenant" was revealed is just bollocks and you well know it (or you've never picked up a history book). They continued doing it for almost 2000 years after the so called New Covenant had arrived. You are the only one here attempting to deceive anyone.

If you think Islam is evil for punishing apostates, then you must admit that you worship an evil god, since according to your book, he clearly prescribed this.

"If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God" (Deuteronomy 13:6-11)

Clear as day there Yadda. Even your own wife or daughter, says you must be the first to stone them to death. Is that an evil command? Do you worship an evil being? Or do you think "God turned over a new leaf" and was reformed? He was previously an evil god, but he changed his wicked ways? Strange beliefs indeed.

Back to top

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #65 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 10:22pm

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 9:34pm:

Yadda, the fact is your holy book demands the death penalty for apostasy. And up until a few centuries ago (ie. for about 80% of the entire history of Christianity) Christians were still implementing it.

But we do not live a few centuries ago. We live now, here. You live in the past in your head,. But otherwise you are also here now.

What Christianity did a few centuries ago and has now abandoned is no justification for your to maintain, now, that death for apostasy is OK.

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49016
At my desk.

Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #66 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 10:37pm

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 9:23pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2012 at 9:39pm:

So what is the proper Islamic punishment for apostasy?

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 27^th, 2008 at 10:02pm:

Quote:

Abu would you kill peope like them if the appropriate situation arose - like a Caliphate?

Since I'd probably never consider state-executioner as a good career path, I highly doubt it.

If however you're insinuating (as you've done enough times before, and been told to stop being so daft) that I might be a vigilante of some kind, then all I can say is get a grip on yourself.

Where in that post exactly do I state I want to execute anyone? Please highlight it for me, because excuse my inability to find it, but it really doesn't appear to be there.

Again, I implore you, if you have even a shred of decency and credibility about you, then try saving the meagre little shred of dignity you might have left and either bring forth your supposed quote from me, or admit to being a lying swine.

Here are some more for you Abu. Have you changed your mind about the death penalty for apostasy? Or do you now need other people to remind you what you believe?

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 9^th, 2008 at 7:44pm:

Quote:

What is that again? I think there was some abiguity last time we touched on that.

Not from me, perhaps with Malik. Apostasy is a capital offense.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 9^th, 2008 at 7:12pm:

Quote:

but you especially object to them talking in a gay way, having their own culture, and riding round on floats with their arse cheeks hanging out?

Islamically, someone who'd taken it this far would've apostasised and the Islamic ruling for apostasy would now apply to him.

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 8^th, 2009 at 11:04pm:

Quote:

not killing apostates etc

As has been mentioned above, death penalty is the issue you should be discussing. Also treason (which is what apostasy is according to Islam) *IS* a capital offence in many 'modern' states.

Apparently it is propaganda to even distinguish between apostasy and treason:

abu_rashid wrote on Sep 17^th, 2011 at 9:09pm:

2) Apostasy (or treason as it's called when not trying to make propaganda) has also been dealt with on numerous occasions, please change the record.

Here is an interesting one where Abu appears to claim that Shites are not apostates. Have you changed your mind Abu?

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 10^th, 2008 at 1:38pm:

So if you have a quote from me claiming Shi'a are apostates, bring it. If you don't, cut the crap.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

abu_rashid

Gold Member

Offline

Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353

Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #67 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 11:55pm

Soren wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 10:22pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 9:34pm:

Yadda, the fact is your holy book demands the death penalty for apostasy. And up until a few centuries ago (ie. for about 80% of the entire history of Christianity) Christians were still implementing it.

But we do not live a few centuries ago. We live now, here. You live in the past in your head,. But otherwise you are also here now.

What Christianity did a few centuries ago and has now abandoned is no justification for your to maintain, now, that death for apostasy is OK.

Have they actually abandoned it? Or like me, do they just know that in this secular society it is not going to be implemented, and so the issue does not even register for them (just as it does not for me)??

I know you'd like to establish a difference there, but in reality there is none.

Back to top

IP Logged

abu_rashid

Gold Member

Offline

Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353

Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #68 - Aug 8^th, 2012 at 11:57pm

freediver wrote on Aug 8^th, 2012 at 10:37pm:

Here are some more for you Abu. Have you changed your mind about the death penalty for apostasy? Or do you now need other people to remind you what you believe?

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 9^th, 2008 at 7:44pm:

Quote:

What is that again? I think there was some abiguity last time we touched on that.

Not from me, perhaps with Malik. Apostasy is a capital offense.

Still can't find it I see.

Indeed apostasy is a capital offense according to Islamic law, that's not what you've been harping on about though. You've been claiming I personally want to kill Shi'ites.

You're a liar, and I think you know it, that's why you're clutching at straws.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 104726 Melbourne Gender:	Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia? Reply #69 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:15am Abu, Quote: Indeed apostasy is a capital offense according to Islamic law Abu, You are an Islamic person therefore you must agree with killing people for religious reasons? When will you see that this is morally wrong?
Back to top	IP Logged

abu_rashid

Gold Member

Offline

Aussie Muslim

Posts: 8353

Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #70 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:34am

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:15am:

Abu,
Quote:

Indeed apostasy is a capital offense according to Islamic law

Abu,
You are an Islamic person therefore you must agree with killing people for religious reasons?

When will you see that this is morally wrong?

Bobby,

Islamic law is not strictly religious in the sense you believe it to be. The Islamic apostasy law is akin to today's treason laws. It was a law instituted to ensure people did not betray the Islamic state.

It is an affair of state, and therefore does not really impact on my life in the least. I know you live under some delusion that Muslims sit around plotting the shari'ah takeover of Australia, and the beheading of all apostates (Protocols of the elders of Mecca anyone??), but it's pure fantasy. You're a nutcase and nothing more. Even someone like spot, who is totally anti-religious can recognise how sane my general outlook is (I'm sure we would disagree on plenty of specific issues) and how utterly nonsensical and paranoid yours is. That should say something to you.

Tell me Bobby, does Australia's treason law impact on your life? Do you want to run around locking anyone up in your basement and deprive them of their liberty if they happen to show disrespect or disloyalty to Australia? After all that's what Australian law effectively does. Do you want to take the law into your own hands and lock people up in your basement for such things?

Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? Always good to have a quick peek into the mirror before you post your tripe.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 104726
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #71 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 12:43am

Abu,

Your treason argument is a strawman fallacy.

We haven't executed anyone for that since WW2 - I think.

On the other hand people in Iran are killed all the time for apostasy.

I have good reason to believe that you want that here judging by your posts.

Just say it's not true -
you don't believe in killing people for religious reasons.
Tell us that you are a moderate Islamist who wants
peace in the world & that you recognise our secular society
& that's what you want for Australia.

It's that simple Abu.

Back to top

IP Logged

Sir Spot of Borg

Gold Member

Offline

WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26508
Australia

Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #72 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 6:36am

Quote:

He also said that they should get the death penalty if they change their mind. Abu has some very strange ideas about what 'freely choosing' Islam means. He sees no contradiction between believing that there should be no compulsion in religion and stoning apostates to death. He thinks that freely choosing Islam should be encouraged by a system that discriminates against non-Muslims at every opportunity.

Look in the mirror freediver. you accuse me of telling ppl what they believe yet you do it to him. You say he discriminates against other religions yet you discriminate against his. Just look @ the crap going on in america (that some want to bring here) where xtians think that "freedom of religion" means freedom to be xtian.

Quote:

You are confused again spot. We were actually talking about Abu wanting to impose Shariah law on people. Obviously if you forget what the question is so quickly you will have a bit of trouble noticing if Abu does not actually answer it. No wonder you haven't picked up on that yet.

You take the friggin history out of the posts and quote a lil bit that says nothing - i dont have time to scroll back pages and pages to see what you are talking about and you know it. Part of your strategy i suppose. He said he didnt want sharia law in australia.

Quote:

I have given you plenty of direct quotes from Abu. You simply refuse to believe them.

Because i know you take things out of context and misrepresent ppl and he denies it. If he denies it he must not think it. You are @ fault here. You seem to think getting some kind of semantic victory is a "win" but its not because if its not the intent in what someone was saying then no amount of semantics will make it true.

Quote:

It does not men he does not want to impose Shariah on people or that he does not support it happening overseas.

I did not ask about overseas. I think if islamic countries want sharia law then they will have it. As he explained they dont and they dont.

SOB

Back to top

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

IP Logged

Sir Spot of Borg

Gold Member

Offline

WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26508
Australia

Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #73 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 6:46am

Quote:

The views that i hold about apostasy and ['religious'] belief [....i.e. that 'belief' is a personal matter, a matter of conscience], are distinctly different from what Allah and Mohammed state, as being firm doctrine.

i.e.
That unbelief [rejecting ISLAM] is a crime, against Allah.

Why are you ignoring my quotes from your book that state the same thing about your god and ppl that worship different ones?

Quote:

In Australia, Australian laws, for the most part, are able to protect us [the broader Australian community] from moslem sectarian violence, directed against perceived 'unbelievers' and apostates.

That is what i have been saying. So now you agree with me? They also keep xtians from imposing their death penalties too but since its been going on longer than 1 generation you like to ignore that.

Quote:

And our Australian laws also prevent moslems from the violent inclination [many] Australian moslems do harbour, to try impose Sharia law in Australia.

I said this also but they are trying to impose it on themselves not everyone. They are not allowed in this country though apparently because the laws conflict with ours.

Quote:

But ALL moslems living within Australia DO want to remove Australian law, and if they could, moslems living within Australia, would use force, to impose Sharia law upon all Australians.

No. They want to impose it on themselves not all australians.

Quote:

Any moslem who would deny this, would be barefacedly lying to you.

Because you believe it so it must be true - or did god tell you?

Xtian texts are clear:

Quote:

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. - John 15:6

Back to top

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49016
At my desk.

Re: does Abu want Shariah law for Australia?
Reply #74 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 8:59am

Quote:

Have they actually abandoned it? Or like me, do they just know that in this secular society it is not going to be implemented, and so the issue does not even register for them (just as it does not for me)??

I have never come across a Christian who wants to bring back death by stoning. The vast majority have genuinely abandoned it and genuinely support religious freedom, democracy, human rights etc.

Quote:

I know you'd like to establish a difference there, but in reality there is none.

You only have to look at the different examples set by Muhammed and Jesus to see how much easier it is for Christians to let the old testament stuff go.

Quote:

Indeed apostasy is a capital offense according to Islamic law, that's not what you've been harping on about though. You've been claiming I personally want to kill Shi'ites.

Well are Shites apostates? Or are you claiming that you personally do not want what Islam commands of you? You can hardly blame people for getting you wrong if you don't give a straight answer.

Quote:

The Islamic apostasy law is akin to today's treason laws. It was a law instituted to ensure people did not betray the Islamic state.

Except that it applies to thought crimes. Only Islam believes apostasy (or being gay) is a betrayal of the state.

Quote:

It is an affair of state, and therefore does not really impact on my life in the least. I know you live under some delusion that Muslims sit around plotting the shari'ah takeover of Australia, and the beheading of all apostates (Protocols of the elders of Mecca anyone??), but it's pure fantasy. You're a nutcase and nothing more. Even someone like spot, who is totally anti-religious can recognise how sane my general outlook is (I'm sure we would disagree on plenty of specific issues) and how utterly nonsensical and paranoid yours is. That should say something to you.

Abu you trot this little strawman out every time. We are asking what you think. We often acknowledge your impotence to actually achieve what you want. That bit we agree with you on.

Quote:

Tell me Bobby, does Australia's treason law impact on your life?

Our treason laws do not cover apostasy, or homosexuality.

Quote:

Look in the mirror freediver. you accuse me of telling ppl what they believe yet you do it to him.

I quote him.

Quote:

You say he discriminates against other religions yet you discriminate against his.

I say he wants to stone people to death for apostasy. So does he.

Quote:

You take the friggin history out of the posts and quote a lil bit that says nothing

I quote the bit where he says apostasy is a capital offence and that it applies even to gay people. Please demonstrate where the context has altered the meaning. All of those quote from Abu I posted above have links.

Quote:

i dont have time to scroll back pages and pages to see what you are talking about and you know it

So instead you insist that you are right, even though you cannot show it? Perhaps you should spend more time thinking and less time posting. You seem to have an aweful lot of time to repeat yourself.

Quote:

He said he didnt want sharia law in australia.

No he did not. Quote him.

Quote:

Because i know you take things out of context and misrepresent ppl and he denies it. If he denies it he must not think it.

He denied something else. It is called a strawman spot. You really should learn to recognise it, other people will be taking advantage of your naivete constantly.

Quote:

You seem to think getting some kind of semantic victory is a "win" but its not because if its not the intent in what someone was saying then no amount of semantics will make it true.

Abu's intention is to conceal the politically unpalatable aspects of his beliefs. He takes advantage of gullible people who want to believe him and will read into his posts what is not actually there.

Quote:

I did not ask about overseas. I think if islamic countries want sharia law then they will have it.

Would that be a good thing or a bad thing? What about all the non-Muslims? What about all the Muslims that Abu considers to be apostates? Contrary to the image Abu attempts to portray, there is no such thing as a homogenous Muslims country. The only thing that varies is the extent to which the people are afraid to be different.

Quote:

No. They want to impose it on themselves not all australians

They want to impose it on everyone. They just recognise their own impotence. Even Abu is telling you this spot. You should learn to tell the difference. Imagine a Nazi telling you he is not capable of slaughtering Jews because Australian law stops him - would you turn around and tell everyone he does not want to slaughter Jews? For someone who claims to oppose this BS you are incredibly blind to it.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged