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Climate change is here — and worse than we thought (Read 33494 times)
Bertram
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #135 - Sep 23rd, 2012 at 11:56am
 
muso wrote on Sep 15th, 2012 at 5:10pm:
 

I was totally surprised on the huge impact on coal fired generation.  The interesting thing is that the carbon tax should have had about a $23 per Megawatt impact on coal generated electricity. In fact, the cost impact is not evenly distributed. Ironically, the highest impact has been in South Australia, even though they have more gas generation.

In Queensland, which has the highest proportion of coal -fired generation, the increased cost per MW is a bit less than expected. That's because there is currently a higher demand for gas generation (and solar PV etc), and a lower demand for coal-fired electricity. The market price is therefore less that would have been expected. Currently, there is something like 1800MW of Solar PV electricity generated in Australia, which is comparable to a medium-sized power station.  It will be interesting to see what happens in summer with the increased load.



this is interesting. i do wonder how much it cost to build all the solar generators to get 1800MW.
all those rooftop panels, none of the cheap, across all the cities produce only what a medium sized conventional power station produces.
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Emma
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #136 - Sep 24th, 2012 at 12:27am
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Sep 12th, 2012 at 3:21pm:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Aug 28th, 2012 at 9:37pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 27th, 2012 at 8:32pm:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Aug 27th, 2012 at 7:39pm:
Chrislee wrote on Aug 27th, 2012 at 7:31pm:
Climate change will bring to us.


Will bring to us ..WHAT??


I understand that you, (and Chrislee) may not be able to answer this question..

I was being sarcastic: ya gonna sue me mr hardcore??  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy



Hell no...it's much more fun to watch you make a fool of yourself....


Climate change will bring to us
.


yes it will!!


Yes Indeed.

It HAS caused change ALREADY..!!  And it's really only just heading out onto the runway.... getting ready for the acceleration to achieve lift-off.!

I can't be bothered reading earlier posts.....

I cannot understand how anyone can still deny we are in the midst of the greatest climactic and ecological change in our history as sentient beings.

There is no doubt.
And YES ...Humans are the greatest cause.
We have failed to keep our own home safe, through greed, basically,  and guess who pays the price.?

Not the arseholes who made/still make.. mega bucks thats for sure. Sad

Saw a really interesting piece on SBS tonight.  Lost Civilisations ..... a look at earlier peoples who were wiped off the face of the earth by volcanism and tsunami's.

What we face makes them pale in comparison.!

Food for thought.








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muso
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #137 - Sep 24th, 2012 at 5:55pm
 
Bertram wrote on Sep 23rd, 2012 at 11:56am:
muso wrote on Sep 15th, 2012 at 5:10pm:
 

I was totally surprised on the huge impact on coal fired generation.  The interesting thing is that the carbon tax should have had about a $23 per Megawatt impact on coal generated electricity. In fact, the cost impact is not evenly distributed. Ironically, the highest impact has been in South Australia, even though they have more gas generation.

In Queensland, which has the highest proportion of coal -fired generation, the increased cost per MW is a bit less than expected. That's because there is currently a higher demand for gas generation (and solar PV etc), and a lower demand for coal-fired electricity. The market price is therefore less that would have been expected. Currently, there is something like 1800MW of Solar PV electricity generated in Australia, which is comparable to a medium-sized power station.  It will be interesting to see what happens in summer with the increased load.



this is interesting. i do wonder how much it cost to build all the solar generators to get 1800MW.
all those rooftop panels, none of the cheap, across all the cities produce only what a medium sized conventional power station produces.


Well, solar PV is gradually coming down in price. The projections are that it will be on a par with coal fired generation by 2030. The fact that so many have been installed has reduced the cost somewhat. Of course the money would have been better spent on combined cycle generation (more bang for your buck) or even solar thermal, which is competing quite well in California with gas generation.  It's a problem of intestinal fortitude (or lack of) by those in power. On the other hand, those who have installed solar panels have done very well for themselves.

It would be an interesting exercise to calculate the total cost.
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Emma
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #138 - Sep 24th, 2012 at 11:30pm
 
hmm yeh those with solar power are definitely benefiting ...
I checked it out for my place, but  I have too many trees and no Nthn roof space.

Not effective..so I'm stuck with paying power providers.

I'm just wondering really, how the take-up of solar power will affect my power bill.
Thats certainly more concern to me than the carbon tax.!!!

I've been told that the more people on solar, the higher the cost of electricity will be for those not.

Why would this be ? 

If demand decreases for electricity supply, , shouldn't the cost drop also?

Isn't that how the 'market' works.? Supply and demand.?

Guess I'm pretty naive about this...because  I think  I can answer my own question upon consideration.
Sad

Its BUSINESS.  Which must produce PROFIT.
If less usage of the supply, then profit drops,...
Then the power companies raise the prices.

How gloomy is that.
Am I wrong?

It's all too complicated for me I'm afraid. Sad

 
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Soren
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #139 - Sep 25th, 2012 at 8:35pm
 
muso wrote on Sep 24th, 2012 at 5:55pm:
Well, solar PV is gradually coming down in price. The projections are that it will be on a par with coal fired generation by 2030. 



Grin Grin Grin


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Bertram
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #140 - Oct 6th, 2012 at 9:26pm
 
Emma wrote on Sep 24th, 2012 at 11:30pm:
I've been told that the more people on solar, the higher the cost of electricity will be for those not.

Why would this be ? 

 

because people who put solar electricity back in the grid are paid for it.
also there is a government subsidy for solar for which someone has to pay.
so you have to pay for solar energy whether you use it or not. being a very expensive energy source, it costs a lot to subsidise it. your power bills are subsidising it.

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Emma
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #141 - Oct 6th, 2012 at 11:49pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 22nd, 2012 at 7:17pm:
Quote:
Climate change has moved into a new and dangerous phase. The Arctic has been warming two to three times faster than the rest of the world. In the past few weeks, melting of the Arctic sea ice has accelerated dramatically, reducing the area and volume to levels never previously experienced. About 80 per cent of the summer sea-ice has been lost since 1979; on current trends the Arctic will be ice-free in summer by 2015 and ice-free all year by 2030 - events that were not expected to occur for another 100 years. More concerning, the Greenland ice sheet this year has had unprecedented melting, adding to a trend that will substantially increase sea levels.

Beyond the Arctic, the world is in the fifth year of a severe food crisis - largely climate change driven - that is about to become far worse as the full impact of extreme drought in the US food bowl works its way through the global food chain, leading to price rises from which Australia will not be immune. Drought around the Mediterranean contributed to this and has played a big part in triggering the Arab Spring. Globally, the escalation of extreme weather continues.

Science is clearly linking these events to climate change, with human carbon emissions as the prime cause.

The polar icecaps are one of the vital regulators of global climate; if the ice disappears, the absorption of more solar radiation accelerates ocean warming, with increasing risk of large-scale release of carbon dioxide and methane from melting permafrost. This may initiate irreversible runaway warming.
Advertisement

Global energy, food and water security are also poised on a knife edge. These changes are occurring at the 0.8 degrees increase, relative to pre-industrial conditions already experienced, let alone the extra 1.2 degrees that probably will result from our historic emissions.

The "official" target of limiting temperature increase to no more than 2 degrees is way too high. Current policies, such as our Clean Energy Future package, are far worse and would result in a 4 degrees-plus temperature rise. Official panaceas, such as carbon capture and storage, are not working.

Australian leaders glibly talk about adapting to a 4-degree world with little idea of what it means - which is a world of 1 billion people rather than the present 7 billion.

We know how to establish a genuine low-carbon economy, which would stave off the worst impacts of climate change, but it is too late for gradual implementation. It has to be set up at emergency speed.

Yet we hear nothing of this from the political, business or NGO institutions that should be leading the response. Why? Financial incentives are the main culprit, in particular the bonus culture that has spread through Australian business since the early 1990s.

The damage caused by this culture threatens the very foundations of democratic society. Few directors or executives are prepared to give serious attention to long-term issues such as climate change when their rewards are based almost entirely on short-term performance.

Many privately agree that climate change needs far more urgent action, but few are prepared to speak out for fear of derailing "business as usual". This is a fundamental failure of governance - directors have a fiduciary responsibility to objectively assess the critical risks to which their companies are exposed and take action to ensure these risks are adequately managed. But if they acknowledge climate change as a serious risk, they are bound to act, which requires a radical redirection of Australian business away from our addiction to high-carbon coal and gas, our most powerful vested interests losing out in the process. Better, then, to stick to absolute denial, irrespective of the consequences.

This flows through to politicians, non government organisations and the bureaucracy, who are subjected to immense pressure from the corporate sector not to rock the boat. The chorus is picked up with vehemence by a compliant media and shock jocks, the result being politically expedient and contradictory climate policy.

Adversarial politics and corporate myopia are incapable of addressing life-threatening climate change. The community must go around these barriers and demand leaders take urgent action before the poisoned chalice we pass to our grandchildren becomes even more toxic.

Ian Dunlop chaired the Australian Coal Association 1987-1988 and Australian Greenhouse Office Experts Group on Emissions Trading 1998-2000.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/fourdegree-rise-demands-90degre...


But of course nobody cares Sad



I DO. Smiley

Have just read some earlier posts, obviously  Roll Eyes,  and find this piece particularly interesting.

Also, Muso.  Your comments about why we cling to the redundant...  it certainly shows fear on the part of the big money earners.

Like it was said, the CEO's of the coys. that could do the most, are too busy ensuring they receive their (short-term) bonus each year.

When it hits the fan, they may have marginally more protection, BUT, not in the long run.

I guess it is true what has been determined about 'CEO's'......... many of the highest paid are sociopaths.!

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progressiveslol
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #142 - Oct 7th, 2012 at 4:53am
 
Bertram wrote on Oct 6th, 2012 at 9:26pm:
Emma wrote on Sep 24th, 2012 at 11:30pm:
I've been told that the more people on solar, the higher the cost of electricity will be for those not.

Why would this be ? 

 

because people who put solar electricity back in the grid are paid for it.
also there is a government subsidy for solar for which someone has to pay.
so you have to pay for solar energy whether you use it or not. being a very expensive energy source, it costs a lot to subsidise it. your power bills are subsidising it.


This is where the carbon tax is a fraud. The carbon tax should have covered all renewable scheme costs.
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Superman1
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #143 - Dec 6th, 2012 at 8:03pm
 
I am in good Steed when I say The carbon tax is a fraud in that it isn't transforming Power, or indeed Prayer,  into 100% not just renewable Energy, as Dr. Karl has professed possible withing 10 years I think.
EDIT: No I don't mean the CT itself is negative. I should have said clearly that instead of that...

But free energy as it should be.
As the
sun
is freeeee.
The
air

And the
grass
.

Alas, then,
poor poliitcs
.
The carbon tax should have grasped beyond beurocrap, into humanity's field..


That's just the ideal.
Earth is dying, the scientists ignored by the leaders of the
New Krypton.
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« Last Edit: Dec 7th, 2012 at 12:49pm by Superman1 »  
 
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Emma
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #144 - Dec 7th, 2012 at 2:19am
 
Get Out Of it.!!
Umm  perhaps I mean...don't be deliberately obtuse.  Are you just a negative like Abbott.?

CARBON TAX.....   everybody says power costs have hugely increased, 'cos of this  initiative.

Load of Codswallop, far as I can see.  My bill hasn't  SKYROCKETED.!!
In fact, I have been pleased to remain  about the same vis a vis power costs.
GAS has gone up...  I have gas hot water and cooking.   
And NO I don't have solar power.

SO IMO  all these media bites about massive increases to ordinary people is just a load of Bull... the hysteria is stupid,  and CONTAGIOUS.
The Carbon Tax is just the first initiative in this scary new world,  and the Government has at least TRIED to start the ball rolling.
BUT  -- the ABBOTT gang of nincompoops say they'll repeal it. !! 
HOW utterly mindlessly stupid is that? 
I've heard absolutely ZILCH from the opposition about any plans they have.!!

BUT THEN AGAIN , that is perfectly natural,  seeing as they DENY reality, ( doh ?? wot climate change??)   and SEEK TO SPREAD THEIR OPINION. AND  thats all it is,  a poorly informed, blinkered view, which is sadly ..plain to see in the actions of the LNP in Government in Queensland.

If you aren't in Queensland I doubt you have any idea of what this govt is doing to the environment  and lots more, including working people. amongst many others..!!
I doubt your News would inform you,  .. Sad Angry  wouldn't want the news to get out..!!


SO ANYHOW 
back to a closer focus on climate change ..
I HAVE taken perfectly reasonable steps to reduce my power usage, by turning OFF non-essentials. !!  Not hard at all.  It's a bit like approaching the water restrictions,  BUT,  This is voluntary.  Smiley
And .. I don't pay for water anyway, because I have been living on rain-water for at least 22 yrs, and have only had to purchase water less than 6 times.

And that was through the longest drought in Q's recorded history.

So I think I DO have some credibility....  I may not be totally green.. but I walk the talk.!!

Do you?? Huh


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Rider
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #145 - Feb 3rd, 2013 at 8:34am
 
Apparently its NOT worse than we thought - seems our GBR is gonna be just fine after all...

Can't link, go to notrickszone for source.


Corals Surviving Just Fine In Warm Waters – Another Predicted Catastrophe Gets Cancelled

By P Gosselin on 2. Februar 2013


Ocean warming, caused by man-made global warming, was supposed to lead to the destruction of the corals we were told again and again.

But now a new study published at the Marine Pollution Bulletin shows that corals are far more resilient than first thought. More bad news for the catastrophe-obsessed climate kooks.
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muso
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #146 - Feb 3rd, 2013 at 11:28am
 
Don't believe all you read, especially on generation capacity.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/price-surges-spark-debate/story-e6...

Games are being played to manipulate prices.  Lips Sealed
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muso
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #147 - Feb 3rd, 2013 at 11:39am
 
Rider wrote on Feb 3rd, 2013 at 8:34am:
Apparently its NOT worse than we thought - seems our GBR is gonna be just fine after all...

Can't link, go to notrickszone for source.

Corals Surviving Just Fine In Warm Waters – Another Predicted Catastrophe Gets Cancelled

By P Gosselin on 2. Februar 2013


Ocean warming, caused by man-made global warming, was supposed to lead to the destruction of the corals we were told again and again.

But now a new study published at the Marine Pollution Bulletin shows that corals are far more resilient than first thought. More bad news for the catastrophe-obsessed climate kooks.


False premise. It was reduced calcification due to ocean pH reduction. Come on, get it right. We did after all tell you "again and again" that it was reduced calcification rates.  Nice try but no cigar.

On the original Hoffman study, it shows that some coral reefs have had a chance to regrow in the short term following favourable weather conditions in recent years. There is absolutely no implication that corals won't continue to bleach, in some cases irreparably. Some have recovered a bit.Some are already lost for ever. This is in line with expectations unfortunately.

In fact as conditions continue to deteriorate, there will be less and less opportunity for such regrowth.

However as I said earlier, there are two factors at play. This paper just discusses recovery after coral bleaching events. It takes no stock of the reduced calcification rate, which is the crux of the matter.

The fact that corals survive in warm seas is irrelevant to the issue of decreased calcification.
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« Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2013 at 11:49am by muso »  

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muso
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #148 - Feb 3rd, 2013 at 11:54am
 
Soren wrote on Sep 25th, 2012 at 8:35pm:
muso wrote on Sep 24th, 2012 at 5:55pm:
Well, solar PV is gradually coming down in price. The projections are that it will be on a par with coal fired generation by 2030. 



Grin Grin Grin




Soren. Tell me what Pie Charts have to do with projections - and you accuse me of poor analogies.
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Emma
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #149 - Feb 3rd, 2013 at 11:21pm
 
Rider wrote on Feb 3rd, 2013 at 8:34am:
Apparently its NOT worse than we thought - seems our GBR is gonna be just fine after all...

Can't link, go to notrickszone for source.


Corals Surviving Just Fine In Warm Waters – Another Predicted Catastrophe Gets Cancelled

By P Gosselin on 2. Februar 2013


Ocean warming, caused by man-made global warming, was supposed to lead to the destruction of the corals we were told again and again.

But now a new study published at the Marine Pollution Bulletin shows that corals are far more resilient than first thought. More bad news for the catastrophe-obsessed climate kooks.


Oh but we have been roundly criticised for risking the death of the Great Barrier Reef.  ... one of the Natural Wonders of the world,  and now under threat by rampant development and transport of fossil fuels, approved by our govts.  It is not acceptable.

Unesco is about to give us another thrashing... and if the Great Barrier Reef loses it's World Heritage listing, it  becomes another degraded ecosystem ripe for further abuse.

It truly is sickening !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

A filthy trade... worse than drug smuggling, or people trafficking... 
...ooooh   sorry.. but think about it.

Once the Reef is silted and poisoned by agricultural practices and fossil fuels expansion ...it won't come back... and we will be responsible.... 

'cos we let morons like Hicks have free rein... laissez-faire... the rich win more riches,  and the world loses something irreplaceable. Sad





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