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Climate change is here — and worse than we thought (Read 33498 times)
progressiveslol
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #45 - Aug 9th, 2012 at 9:02pm
 
2012 vs 1936

2012 temps

...

And you can see why they avoid the 1930's temps like the plague

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1934 just to show you are larger spread of warmer, rather than extreme (red) in 1936.

...

AGW'ers are too gullible.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/08/08/dear-noaa-and-seth-which-1930s-were-you-re...
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Soren
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #46 - Aug 9th, 2012 at 9:11pm
 
MOTR wrote on Aug 9th, 2012 at 9:00pm:
Soren wrote on Aug 9th, 2012 at 8:50pm:
Climate change is driven by man-made graphs.


Conspiracy Theorists Anonomous, is down the corridor. However, you are welcome to stay if you have something rational to contribute to this discussion.



What? Your graph's bigger than mine?

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MOTR
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #47 - Aug 9th, 2012 at 9:32pm
 
progressiveslol wrote on Aug 9th, 2012 at 9:02pm:


I had to laugh at this pearler from Watts.

Quote:
What’s interesting is that that if AGW had overcome natural variability, and many claim this, we wouldn’t see any statewide temperatures in 2012 lower than in 1936 or 1934.


Can his understanding of climate be this superficial.
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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progressiveslol
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #48 - Aug 9th, 2012 at 10:58pm
 
MOTR wrote on Aug 9th, 2012 at 9:32pm:
progressiveslol wrote on Aug 9th, 2012 at 9:02pm:


I had to laugh at this pearler from Watts.

Quote:
What’s interesting is that that if AGW had overcome natural variability, and many claim this, we wouldn’t see any statewide temperatures in 2012 lower than in 1936 or 1934.


Can his understanding of climate be this superficial.

Yes, he could follow the like of hansen
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MOTR
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #49 - Aug 10th, 2012 at 6:02am
 
Hansen, three decades ago.

Quote:
The global temperature rose 0.2°C between the middle 1960s and 1980, yielding a warming of 0.4°C in the past century. This temperature increase is consistent with the calculated effect due to measured increases of atmospheric carbon dioxide. Variations of volcanic aerosols and possibly solar luminosity appear to be primary causes of observed fluctuations about the mean trend of increasing temperature. It is shown that the anthropogenic carbon dioxide warming should emerge from the noise level of natural climate variability by the end of the century, and there is a high probability of warming in the 1980s. Potential effects on climate in the 21st century include the creation of drought-prone regions in North America and central Asia as part of a shifting of climatic zones, erosion of the West Antarctic ice sheet with a consequent worldwide rise in sea level, and opening of the fabled Northwest Passage.


You don't get it this right without having a a very good understanding of how the climate works. Today he has even more data at his disposal.
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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progressiveslol
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #50 - Aug 10th, 2012 at 6:31am
 
MOTR wrote on Aug 10th, 2012 at 6:02am:
Hansen, three decades ago.

Quote:
The global temperature rose 0.2°C between the middle 1960s and 1980, yielding a warming of 0.4°C in the past century. This temperature increase is consistent with the calculated effect due to measured increases of atmospheric carbon dioxide. Variations of volcanic aerosols and possibly solar luminosity appear to be primary causes of observed fluctuations about the mean trend of increasing temperature. It is shown that the anthropogenic carbon dioxide warming should emerge from the noise level of natural climate variability by the end of the century, and there is a high probability of warming in the 1980s. Potential effects on climate in the 21st century include the creation of drought-prone regions in North America and central Asia as part of a shifting of climatic zones, erosion of the West Antarctic ice sheet with a consequent worldwide rise in sea level, and opening of the fabled Northwest Passage.


You don't get it this right without having a a very good understanding of how the climate works. Today he has even more data at his disposal.

Sounds more like the local hand reader. Sounds compelling, but when you know we are in a warming phase and his A B C scenario are way off, droughts happen all the time so bound to get that one right over a quarter century, it sounds more and more like the hand ringings of a hand reader.
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progressiveslol
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #51 - Aug 10th, 2012 at 9:29am
 
This describes Hansen to a tee <----- propagandist, ideologue

Quote:
There is a simple way to tell the difference between scientists and propagandists. If scientists have a theory, they search diligently for data that might actually contradict their theory so that they test it rigorously or refine it. If propagandists have a theory, they carefully select only the data that might agree with their theory and dutifully ignore any data that might contradict it
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progressiveslol
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #52 - Aug 10th, 2012 at 9:40am
 
Climatologist Dr. Pat Michaels Rips Hansen -- in Letter to Editor rejected by Washington Post 


Michaels: 'Overpredicting warming by roughly 50% means that warming has been much less than Hansen thought'


To the Editor,

NASA climate modeller James Hansen introduces his August 5 op-ed ("Climate change is here--and worse than we thought") by referring to his June 23, 1988 testimony on global warming to a joint House/Senate Committee, stating that he was "too optimistic" at that time. The opposite is true.

At that time, Hansen projected warming based upon two viable emissions scenarios--what he called "Business as Usual", or his "Scenario A", and another with emissions reductions ("Scenario B"). The warmings predicted by the two, between then and now, are, respectively, 1.26 and 1.21 degrees Fahrenheit. The observed warming, in his own somewhat controversial climate record, is 0.68 degrees.

Overpredicting warming by roughly 50% (given the obviously large margins of error in this data) means that warming has been much less than he thought.

Patrick J. Michaels

Director, Center for the Study of Science

Cato Institute



http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17006/Climatologist-Dr-Pat-Michaels-Rips-Hansen--i...

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« Last Edit: Aug 10th, 2012 at 3:06pm by progressiveslol »  
 
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progressiveslol
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #53 - Aug 10th, 2012 at 3:19pm
 
Hadnt seen this before, think from 2009. Says a thousand words in a sentence.

Quote:
Retired senior NASA atmospheric scientist, Dr. John S. Theon, the former supervisor of James Hansen, NASA’s vocal man-made global warming fear soothsayer, has now publicly declared himself a skeptic and declared that Hansen “embarrassed NASA” with his alarming climate claims and said Hansen was “was never muzzled.” Theon joins the rapidly growing ranks of international scientists abandoning the promotion of man-made global warming fears. …

“Hansen was never muzzled even though he violated NASA’s official agency position on climate forecasting (i.e., we did not know enough to forecast climate change or mankind’s effect on it). Hansen thus embarrassed NASA by coming out with his claims of global warming in 1988 in his testimony before Congress,” Theon wrote.


Seems like hansen is still up to his old trick (and other pseudo climate change nuts)

Sounds familiar
Quote:
Theon declared “climate models are useless.” “My own belief concerning anthropogenic climate change is that the models do not realistically simulate the climate system because there are many very important sub-grid scale processes that the models either replicate poorly or completely omit,” Theon explained. “Furthermore, some scientists have manipulated the observed data to justify their model results. In doing so, they neither explain what they have modified in the observations, nor explain how they did it. They have resisted making their work transparent so that it can be replicated independently by other scientists. This is clearly contrary to how science should be done. Thus there is no rational justification for using climate model forecasts to determine public policy,” he added.
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progressiveslol
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #54 - Aug 10th, 2012 at 3:29pm
 
The damage to the credibility of my profession is huge


That’s the takeaway line from meteorologist Cliff Mass on his Cliff Mass Weather Blog today, delivering a savage beatdown on the latest global warming scaremongering from NASA’s egregious James Hansen about recent summer heat waves: “It follows that we can state, with a high degree of confidence, that extreme anomalies such as those in Texas and Oklahoma in 2011 and Moscow in 2010 were a consequence of global warming because their likelihood in the absence of global warming was exceedingly small.”  Mass thinks this is a mass of hot air.

Who is Cliff Mass, and why should we pay attention to him?  Mass is an atmospheric scientist at the University of Washington.  He’s no climate skeptic; as he says in the post quoted in the headline here, “I believe that human-induced global warming is both observed, real, and a serious problem for mankind.”  But to his credit he thinks politicized, agenda-driven scientists like James Hansen, and the credulous media that always give credence to every poorly reasoned claim, do more harm than good.

There’s a lot in his cogent post, and it’s worth reading the whole thing. But here’s the most important part:

Now as the earth warms up the temperature variations shown remain like the bell curve…or Gaussian, but the mean should shift to warmer temperatures (see the figure below). The result is that you get more warm extremes and less cold extremes (less cold extremes are not mentioned very often for some reason).


...

So the result is that you seem more warm temperature records and less cold temperature records.   We are in fact seeing this.  The earth is warming and there are more maximum temperature records than cold ones.  Hansen and friends make a big deal about this.

But what they are not telling you is that the very warm anomalies we are seeing today would have been nearly as large if global warming had never occurred.  In his paper he makes a big deal about large (three sigma) anomalies from climatology.   Well, without any global warming the anomalies might have been say 2.8 sigma.   Or in terms of terms, heat waves of 10F might have been only 9F if global warming had not occurred.  To say it differently, the impact of global warming due to greenhouse gases is still small compared to natural processes, and the impacts to society would have been pretty much the same.  But you never hear it this way.   Those exaggerating the global warming signal imply that we are going from normal conditions to extremes due to global warming.  In reality, we go from naturally induced extremes, to a bit stronger extremes due to global warming.


Mass adds:

As an aside, the journal that this article was published in…the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS)…allows members of the National Academy (like Dr. Hansen) to publish articles with essentially no peer review.  Until 2010 they could publish anything, with no peer review, and most recently the submission review is “supervised” by the submitting academy member WHO GETS TO SELECT THE REVIEWERS. Folks, this is really unfortunate for an entity that claims to be national journal of some reputation.  The result has been a lot of very bad papers in PNAS that would never have been accepted in real journals,with a real peer review process.  One could use stronger words, but this is a family blog.


Like Al Gore, reckless scientists like Hansen are the climate skeptic’s best friend

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/08/the-damage-to-the-credibility-of-m...
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« Last Edit: Aug 10th, 2012 at 3:36pm by progressiveslol »  
 
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MOTR
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #55 - Aug 11th, 2012 at 7:47am
 
Not a single mention of frequency, progs. Did you understand Hansen's paper? I thought his main point was that these extreme temperatures would become much more frequent, not that these extreme events would become much hotter. Although hotter events are now possible.

I think Mass' biggest beef is that Hansen is pitching his paper at the general population and not at the boffins. Anyways that's my gut reaction, I'll read what Mass has to say before commenting further.
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« Last Edit: Aug 11th, 2012 at 8:18am by MOTR »  

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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muso
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #56 - Aug 11th, 2012 at 8:31am
 
Hansen has put himself out on a limb to some extent by predicting a shift to extended La Nina conditions - something that is not supported by data.  I wouldn't go so far as to call him reckless though.
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MOTR
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #57 - Aug 11th, 2012 at 9:54am
 
Is this a fair summary of the Hansen paper, Muso?

Quote:
Hansen and his team looked at the recent past — rather than trying to model the future — to see if they could find the signature of man-made climate change through day-to-day and season-to-season weather. They used the period of 1951–80 as a base because it was a meteorologically stable stretch that also had a wealth of global weather data, unlike earlier periods. During that time period, extremely hot summers — like the one much of the U.S. is experiencing now — occurred only in 0.1% to 0.2% of the globe in a given year. But since 1981, extremely hot summers have baked about 10% of the earth’s land area annually — and in recent years, that percentage has been even higher.

That means the odds of experiencing an extreme summer have risen from 1 in 300 during the 1951–80 period to nearly 1 in 10 now, according to Hansen’s calculations. “I don’t want people to be confused by natural variability,” he said in a statement. “We now know the chances these extreme weather events would have happened naturally — without climate change — is negligible.”

Read more: http://science.time.com/2012/08/07/climate-change-equals-hot-summers-case-closed...

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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rabbitoh07
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #58 - Aug 11th, 2012 at 10:59am
 
progressiveslol wrote on Aug 10th, 2012 at 6:31am:
MOTR wrote on Aug 10th, 2012 at 6:02am:
Hansen, three decades ago.

Quote:
The global temperature rose 0.2°C between the middle 1960s and 1980, yielding a warming of 0.4°C in the past century. This temperature increase is consistent with the calculated effect due to measured increases of atmospheric carbon dioxide. Variations of volcanic aerosols and possibly solar luminosity appear to be primary causes of observed fluctuations about the mean trend of increasing temperature. It is shown that the anthropogenic carbon dioxide warming should emerge from the noise level of natural climate variability by the end of the century, and there is a high probability of warming in the 1980s. Potential effects on climate in the 21st century include the creation of drought-prone regions in North America and central Asia as part of a shifting of climatic zones, erosion of the West Antarctic ice sheet with a consequent worldwide rise in sea level, and opening of the fabled Northwest Passage.


You don't get it this right without having a a very good understanding of how the climate works. Today he has even more data at his disposal.

Sounds more like the local hand reader. Sounds compelling, but when you know we are in a warming phase and his A B C scenario are way off, droughts happen all the time so bound to get that one right over a quarter century, it sounds more and more like the hand ringings of a hand reader.

Yes.  we are in a "warming phase" caused by the increase in atmospheric GHGs from anthropogenic sources.  As has been predicted for many decades now.

Do you have an alternate explanation for the observed warming of the planet of recent decades?

If so - we would love to hear it.  You would probably win a Nobel Prize if your explanation is in any way feasible.  Any answers?
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MOTR
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Re: Climate change is here — and worse than we thought
Reply #59 - Aug 11th, 2012 at 11:10am
 
Just a heads up, rabbitoh07, progs doesn't believe it's warming. This saves him the problem of having to develop an alternative hypothesis.
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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