Australian Politics Forum - SOBs unjustified prejudice

Mnemonic

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1530
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #195 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 8:59pm

freediver wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 1:08pm:

Spot even seems to think Abu is a mainstream Muslim.

Darn I don't think I would ever claim to be the mainstream of anything. I hate the idea of being part of some "majority" because as soon as I claim to be part of such a "majority," I'm automatically responsible for the injustices it potentially creates. If I then try to defend my part in such a majority, I start having to defend everything it does. It's such a blessing to be different and unique. I am not Borg, I am me.

Back to top

IP Logged

gizmo_2655

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 16010
South West NSW
Gender: male

Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #196 - Aug 11^th, 2012 at 9:40pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 8:59pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 1:20pm:

muso wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 1:15pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 5:38am:

Quote:

Not in power anywhere? I'm pretty sure it's in power somewhere on this planet.

Lil bit picky isnt it? Fine maybe its in power somewhere on the planet. Where? Not even afghanistan. . . it could be somewhere though that hasnt been in the media because its not got any oil or isnt making any noise or maybe they arent occupied.

Palestine and Sudan I understand, although there are elements of Sharia in Iran.

Somalia.
They stoned to death a 13 year old rape victim under their barbaric Sharia law.

Muslims are barbaric pre-historic apes.

That's insulting to hominids everywhere...

Back to top

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 21868
A cat with a view

Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #197 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 12:59am

muso wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

To be fair to the puss, Abu is not exactly representative of

the typical Muslim (if there is such a person)

I've found that it's pretty irrelevent what Abu actually says, because he'd make a lot of Muslims squirm. He's somewhere between a newbie and a wannabe Muslim, and I base that on knowing Muslims from various parts of the world including Turkey, Indonesia, Egypt, Tanzania and Guinea.

muso,

You don't know any [-thing about] moslems.

You only know what moslems have revealed to you, about themselves.

And regarding the existence of 'moderate' moslems, listen to Abu's response to some 'persons' being labelled as 'moderate' moslems;

Quote:

I am a Muslim, not a moderate nor an extremist, I reject both of these labels. Islamic law does indeed mandate capital punishment for a treasonous apostate,......

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1344119653/99#99

muso,

In their candid moments moslems will agree, and admit, that, under the authority of ISLAM [-IC law] all of mankind are made up of only two groups of people - moslems and, unbelievers.

ISLAM does not validate any such creature, OR ANY PERSON, as a 'moderate' moslem.

If a person is not WHOLLY a moslem, he is not a moslem.

muso,

Google;
Divisions of the world in Islam

Google;
dar al harb

muso,

You are deceived by ISLAM, by moslems, but you refuse to admit it.

Q.
Why ?

A.

You refuse to acknowledge the truth on this matter, because you have something to protect [in your relationship with ISLAM, with moslems], which you are not revealing here, on OzPol.

+++

Moslems, real moslems, are led, are inspired, by these words.....

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter.
Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things."
Koran 9.38, 39

And non, and on, and on it goes.......

IMAGE...

London, moslem street protests.
'Demonstrating' just how 'peaceful' ISLAM and moslem really are.

THOSE PLACARDS, AT A MOSLEM STREET PROTEST IN LONDON READ.....

"Slay those who insult Islam"
"Behead those who insult Islam"
"Massacre those who insult Islam"
"Butcher those who mock Islam"
"Europe you will pay, demolition is on its way"
"Europe you will pay, extermination is on its way"
"Exterminate those who slander Islam"
"Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer"
"Islam will dominate the world"
"Freedom go to hell"
"Europe take some lessons from 9/11"
"Be prepared for the real Holocaust"
"BBC = British Blasphemic Crusaders"

muso,

This is a real moslem - Speaking in the UK, publicly, AND THEN PRIVATELY, regarding the London 7/7 bombing victims.

"......In public interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians. Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent: Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1724541,00.html

AND;

Attack on London 'inevitable'
April 19, 2004
"We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity."

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/19/1082326119414.html?from=storyrhs&on...

+++

Hey muso,

Just keep denying the truth.

Because the truth can never affect a person like you.

Right ?

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 21868
A cat with a view

Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #198 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 1:18am

freediver wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 7:02pm:

Are you honestly incapable of telling the difference between impotence and benign intent?

@muso too,
.....and anyone else who believes that tolerance of ISLAM, moslems [intent], is a virtue [in themselves].

TOLERANCE OF EVIL

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

Karl Popper

"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."

Thomas Mann

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 21868
A cat with a view

Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #199 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 1:49am

freediver wrote on Aug 10^th, 2012 at 7:02pm:

Quote:

The only reason you have brought up OTHER countries is because theres nothing in australia to complain about!

You are wrong about this too spot. Only an idiot would insist that there is nothing wrong with wanting to kill people for political reasons unless you are in a position to achieve the change you want. If you wait till they start the killing before you are even honest about what they want, you are too late. I cannot even get you to be honest about what Abu wants. If there is nothing to complain about, why are you so keen to delude yourself and everyone else about this? Is your honesty somehow dependent on the level of threat you perceive? Is it OK to lie about what someone wants if, in your opinion, they are unlikely to get it?

A very sound argument.

+++

In any open debate with others, we have [we are always 'compelled'] to assume that we are arguing with reasonable people.

That is an assumption that cannot be relied upon, whenever a person is arguing with a moslem.

If we are in open debate with a moslem, history and experience should teach us, that we are arguing, debating, with plain, barefaced deceivers.

And that such a debate, is a contest that can never be won, by the honest person.
.....unless honest people are in the majority, of those who are observing the debate.

The question is;
Can reasonable persons [in free and open debate], convince the majority [of those who observe such a debate], of the need to acknowledge, to face up to, what is true ?

+++

The 'ISLAMIC' position on 'debate'....

“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya

Google;

taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit

Google;

we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"

How Taqiyya Alters Islams Rules of War

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 21868
A cat with a view

Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #200 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 2:10am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 10:29am:

freediver wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 9:44am:

Quote:

No - i dont claim to know what he wants apart from the answer he gave me to the question

And he completely fooled you with that answer. You got it completely backwards about what he wants. You went around claiming to know what Abu wants. You went around misrepresenting what Abu wants. And now you are trying to backpeddle.

You said he does not want Shariah law for Australia. You said he does not want to destroy freedom and democracy. You said he does not want to kill apostates. You are wrong on every one of these. They each demonstrate how simple it is to fool you.

He said he didnt want to kill me

.....or any other australians. That was part of his answer.

SOB

SPOT,

Abu said that he didn't "want to execute anyone"
.

But then, in the same 'breath', he ALSO said, that the law [Sharia] which he does want, WOULD EXECUTE PEOPLE.
.......i.e. WOULD KILL PEOPLE, AND PROBABLY PEOPLE LIKE YOU SPOT.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 3:53pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 6:35am:

There is capital punishment in america. There is no capital punishment here. Hopefully there never will be. There is always a chance that an innocent will be murdered by the state. A lot of xtians are pro-capital punishment though. A LOT. Its not just a muslim thing.

Obviously Australia no longer has capital punishment. The point was spot, that just as the vast majority of Australians don't want to kidnap and tie up thieves, just because their law says thieves should be imprisoned,

I don't personally want to execute anyone just because the law I believe in says it is so.

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 21868
A cat with a view

Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #201 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 2:19am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 1:28pm:

muso wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 1:15pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 5:38am:

Quote:

Not in power anywhere? I'm pretty sure it's in power somewhere on this planet.

Lil bit picky isnt it? Fine maybe its in power somewhere on the planet. Where? Not even afghanistan. . . it could be somewhere though that hasnt been in the media because its not got any oil or isnt making any noise or maybe they arent occupied.

Palestine and Sudan I understand, although there are elements of Sharia in Iran.

Palestine? Gaza? All of it? Or just parts?

From what i hear they did elect some extremists to government so it is believable. Of course they are a desperate bunch of ppl and they will prolly try anything to get out of their situation.

SOB

Yeah.

Like deceiving people.

So that they can, MURDER THEM.

Back to top

snapshot20120811134920.jpg (23 KB | 39 )

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 21868
A cat with a view

Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #202 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 2:49am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 1:20pm:

muso wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 1:15pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 11^th, 2012 at 5:38am:

Quote:

Not in power anywhere? I'm pretty sure it's in power somewhere on this planet.

Lil bit picky isnt it? Fine maybe its in power somewhere on the planet. Where? Not even afghanistan. . . it could be somewhere though that hasnt been in the media because its not got any oil or isnt making any noise or maybe they arent occupied.

Palestine and Sudan I understand, although there are elements of Sharia in Iran.

Somalia.

They stoned to death a 13 year old rape victim under their barbaric Sharia law.

"In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
Most Gracious, Most Merciful; "

Koran, page 1, verses 1-3

The girl in Somalia was not stoned [executed] because she was the victim of rape.

The girl in Somalia was stoned [executed] because, in herself, admitting that she had been raped, she also inadvertently admitted to her own sexual immorality [i.e. sex outside of wedlock] [ <---- which was the offence that she was executed for.].

In ISLAMIC law, if you are a female of any age, and you 'confess' to being raped [i.e. sex outside of wedlock], you are confirming that you are a sexually immoral person,
.....UNLESS YOU CAN PROVIDE 4 MALE WITNESSES, TO CONFIRM THAT YOU WERE INDEED THE VICTIM OF RAPE.

+++

Checkout this story, of a 17 year old girl in Iran, who was sentenced to death, for killing her attempted rapist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazanin_Mahabad_Fatehi

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

Sir Spot of Borg

Gold Member

Offline

WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26513
Australia

Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #203 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:00am

Quote:

SPOT,

Abu said that he didn't
"want to execute anyone"
.

But then, in the same 'breath', he ALSO said, that the law [Sharia] which he does want, WOULD EXECUTE PEOPLE.
.......i.e. WOULD KILL PEOPLE, AND PROBABLY PEOPLE LIKE YOU SPOT.

That law is not even a mainstream thing in islam. If it were then all those muslim countries would have it.

Quote:

Yeah.

Like deceiving people.

So that they can, MURDER THEM.

That doesnt make sense in the context of the quote. Can you explain please?

SOB

Back to top

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

IP Logged

Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26513 Australia	Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice Reply #204 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:02am Mainstream muslim dont want to kill everyone. They arent interested in killing non-believers or xtians. If they were then those countries like malaysia there would be ppl getting killed all the time for being unbelievers wouldn't there? SOB
Back to top	Whaaaaaah! I'm a Moron! - edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49308
At my desk.

Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #205 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:09am

Quote:

That law is not even a mainstream thing in islam. If it were then all those muslim countries would have it.

How many Muslims have you asked about this? You seem to stumble on the most basic things. Have you figured out yet what Abu's position is? If you cannot even figure that out despite asking him directly, how much trust do you expect people to put in your ability to 'suss it out' while never actually asking the question?

BTW, plenty of Muslim countries do have the death penalty for thought crimes etc.

Quote:

If they were then those countries like malaysia there would be ppl getting killed all the time for being unbelievers wouldn't there?

You are confusing impotence and benign intent again Spot. They are different, remember?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1344636735

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Sir Spot of Borg

Gold Member

Offline

WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26513
Australia

Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #206 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:42am

freediver wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:09am:

Quote:

That law is not even a mainstream thing in islam. If it were then all those muslim countries would have it.

How many Muslims have you asked about this? You seem to stumble on the most basic things. Have you figured out yet what Abu's position is? If you cannot even figure that out despite asking him directly, how much trust do you expect people to put in your ability to 'suss it out' while never actually asking the question?

BTW, plenty of Muslim countries do have the death penalty for thought crimes etc.

Quote:

If they were then those countries like malaysia there would be ppl getting killed all the time for being unbelievers wouldn't there?

You are confusing impotence and benign intent again Spot. They are different, remember?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1344636735

And there are plenty of countries that dont.

So basically every muslim in malaysia wishes it was sharia law? Because abu may want it? That is your logic?

SOB

Back to top

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49308
At my desk.

Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #207 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 8:46am

Quote:

So basically every muslim in malaysia wishes it was sharia law?

There you go with your absurd generalisations again Spot. If you want to know what people think, you start by asking them. Like you did with Abu, after a bit of coaching in the technique. Step two is listening to what they actually say rather than pretending they said what you wanted them to say. You are yet to master this art.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Sir Spot of Borg

Gold Member

Offline

WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26513
Australia

Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #208 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 11:40am

me:
Quote:

If they were then those countries like malaysia there would be ppl getting killed all the time for being unbelievers wouldn't there?

Freediver:
Quote:

You are confusing impotence and benign intent again Spot. They are different, remember?

me:
Quote:

So basically every muslim in malaysia wishes it was sharia law? Because abu may want it? That is your logic?

FreediveR:
[quote]There you go with your absurd generalisations again Spot. If you want to know what people think, you start by asking them. Like you did with Abu, after a bit of coaching in the technique. Step two is listening to what they actually say rather than pretending they said what you wanted them to say. You are yet to master this art. [quote]

I am still on topic. You are not. If muslims in malaysia were all full of "benign intent" because it says in their book that they should be then wouldn't the country have sharia law?

So far every time i say that all muslims arent extremists you bring abu into it as an example. If he is the example and he is so evil and fullof "benign intent" then why dont many muslim countries have sharia?

SOB

Back to top

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49308
At my desk.

Re: SOBs unjustified prejudice
Reply #209 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 12:27pm

Spot I have never said that all Muslims are the same. You always fall back back on this strawman. Nearly half of Malaysians are non Muslims, and the Muslims don't exactly agree with each about who should kill who. Malaysia does have many aspects of Shariah law and has many problems with violent Islamic extremists who want the complete version. You like to trot out complete BS about all religions being the same, but they are not, and Malaysia is a good example of that.

As far as I can tell you formed opinions over there about what those people want without ever asking them. In my opinion that is the height of arrogance and naivete. Even when you do directly ask a Muslim what they want you lack the faculties to comprehend the answer.

I keep bringing Abu into it because he is an example of your inability to comprehend. It is not like I can question the Muslims you met in Malaysia and ask them how badly you got them backwards. They were your servants. They are not going to tell you they think you are an idiot.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged