Australian Politics Forum - Hey Dad: social philosophy.

Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Hey Dad: social philosophy.
Reply #60 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:31am

Quote:

For example, if a teacher looks at a girl's breasts in a private place, ogles her and makes an out-of-character and un-teacher-like comment like, "you're the kind of girl I'd be banging if I could have what I wanted," a shy girl would feel really embarrassed, violated and hurt.

.......... maybe a girl trips over and her skirt flies up revealing more of her legs and a teacher says, "oh wow, what nice legs you have" or "oooo la la I wanna bugger you" and the girl goes red in the cheeks.

.......... or maybe a teacher makes fun of a shy boy for acting like he's homosexual. You know how being homosexual isn't considered "normal" or "cool" so it would be humiliating .......... or a teacher calls a boy a "girl." Some boys don't like being called girls.

......... or some other innuendo.

You are trivialising sexual abuse. I am pretty sure that by the time it gets to a court everyone knows what happened and it wasnt that.

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MOTR

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Re: Hey Dad: social philosophy.
Reply #61 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:51am

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 5:16pm:

MOTR wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 1:18pm:

Any industry where adults are working in a potentially unsupervised environment with children.

I'd say the cover up of the sexual abuse of children is virtually non existent wherever there is mandatory reporting.

If the allegations against Hughes are correct, there is no way he could have continued in his position under mandatory reporting.

then you'd be naive. since the vast majority of offending is within families then doctors and teachers who have mandatory reporting would have eliminated it - but havent.

The problem is in thinking that mandatory reporting is some kind of magic bullet to solve the problem. It isnt.

I specifically said the covering up of sexual abuse, which was once rife.

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gold_medal

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Re: Hey Dad: social philosophy.
Reply #62 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 7:55am

MOTR wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:51am:

gold_medal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 5:16pm:

MOTR wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 1:18pm:

Any industry where adults are working in a potentially unsupervised environment with children.

I'd say the cover up of the sexual abuse of children is virtually non existent wherever there is mandatory reporting.

If the allegations against Hughes are correct, there is no way he could have continued in his position under mandatory reporting.

then you'd be naive. since the vast majority of offending is within families then doctors and teachers who have mandatory reporting would have eliminated it - but havent.

The problem is in thinking that mandatory reporting is some kind of magic bullet to solve the problem. It isnt.

I specifically said the covering up of sexual abuse, which was once rife.

and still is. That's the point.

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Mnemonic

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Re: Hey Dad: social philosophy.
Reply #63 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 1:35pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:31am:

You are trivialising sexual abuse. I am pretty sure that by the time it gets to a court everyone knows what happened and it wasnt that.

I am just shocked that it's so common, based on what someone said in this thread. I find it shocking that so many people would be touched inappropriately. I find it shocking that people would grow up to be apparently reputable members of society like teachers, politicians, church leaders and then touch a girl's breasts or masturbate against them. Maybe these people were suffering from mental illness and don't understand why they did these things but for some reason felt the urge.

They could have bought raggy dolls and teddy bears if they couldn't help themselves and not do it to living human beings. I was just trying to find an alternative explanation, that maybe it wasn't that bad. For example, maybe there was no physical contact but just verbal abuse and innuendo.

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Hey Dad: social philosophy.
Reply #64 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 3:17pm

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 1:35pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:31am:

You are trivialising sexual abuse. I am pretty sure that by the time it gets to a court everyone knows what happened and it wasnt that.

I am just shocked that it's so common, based on what someone said in this thread. I find it shocking that so many people would be touched inappropriately. I find it shocking that people would grow up to be apparently reputable members of society like teachers, politicians, church leaders and then touch a girl's breasts or masturbate against them. Maybe these people were suffering from mental illness and don't understand why they did these things but for some reason felt the urge.

They could have bought raggy dolls and teddy bears if they couldn't help themselves and not do it to living human beings. I was just trying to find an alternative explanation, that maybe it wasn't that bad. For example, maybe there was no physical contact but just verbal abuse and innuendo.

That's the thing, everyone that was abused as a child thinks they are the only one's too.

The only explanation that I can give is men haven't evolved much over the years. It doesn't seem to be any less prevalent now than it was back then.

From the women I've spoken to, the perpetrators included, the fathers of school or neighbourhood friends, uncles, fathers, grandfathers, clergymen, sports coaches and scout/guide leaders or people involved in the program.

I can only assume that a lot of men can't control their sexual urges.

I'm not talking about full on rape or at the other end of the scale, verbal abuse or innuendo, which is unpleasant but hardly a crime.

By the way, I haven't asked any men the same questions, so I have no idea if male children suffer the abuse to the same extent.

If anyone doubts me, start asking people between the ages of 50 and 80, if they have your confidence they'll most likely tell you.

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gold_medal

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Re: Hey Dad: social philosophy.
Reply #65 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 3:43pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 3:17pm:

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 1:35pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:31am:

You are trivialising sexual abuse. I am pretty sure that by the time it gets to a court everyone knows what happened and it wasnt that.

I am just shocked that it's so common, based on what someone said in this thread. I find it shocking that so many people would be touched inappropriately. I find it shocking that people would grow up to be apparently reputable members of society like teachers, politicians, church leaders and then touch a girl's breasts or masturbate against them. Maybe these people were suffering from mental illness and don't understand why they did these things but for some reason felt the urge.

They could have bought raggy dolls and teddy bears if they couldn't help themselves and not do it to living human beings. I was just trying to find an alternative explanation, that maybe it wasn't that bad. For example, maybe there was no physical contact but just verbal abuse and innuendo.

That's the thing, everyone that was abused as a child thinks they are the only one's too.

The only explanation that I can give is men haven't evolved much over the years. It doesn't seem to be any less prevalent now than it was back then.

From the women I've spoken to, the perpetrators included, the fathers of school or neighbourhood friends, uncles, fathers, grandfathers, clergymen, sports coaches and scout/guide leaders or people involved in the program.

I can only assume that a lot of men can't control their sexual urges.

I'm not talking about full on rape or at the other end of the scale, verbal abuse or innuendo, which is unpleasant but hardly a crime.

By the way, I haven't asked any men the same questions, so I have no idea if male children suffer the abuse to the same extent.

If anyone doubts me, start asking people between the ages of 50 and 80, if they have your confidence they'll most likely tell you.

Dont forget the female abusers. They are nearly as common as the men.

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Hey Dad: social philosophy.
Reply #66 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 3:54pm

<<Dont forget the female abusers. They are nearly as common as the men.>>
.....................................................................

Maybe with physical abuse and neglect, I'm not so sure about sexual abuse. It would have been quite rare when I was a child, although there seems to be plenty of school teachers getting it off with their male students these days, maybe not in the primary school age bracket though.

Maybe the maturity level of women has changed, some 30 year old's act quite teenage-ish.

If we could get the stats, I'm sure sexual abuse of children by men is much higher than by women.

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gold_medal

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Re: Hey Dad: social philosophy.
Reply #67 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 4:06pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 3:54pm:

<<Dont forget the female abusers. They are nearly as common as the men.>>
.....................................................................

Maybe with physical abuse and neglect, I'm not so sure about sexual abuse. It would have been quite rare when I was a child, although there seems to be plenty of school teachers getting it off with their male students these days, maybe not in the primary school age bracket though.

Maybe the maturity level of women has changed, some 30 year old's act quite teenage-ish.

If we could get the stats, I'm sure sexual abuse of children by men is much higher than by women.

Women are nearly as prevalent as men in sexual abuse and are often ironically the more violent. The reson it seemed less prevalent in the past was because it was always assumed that women NEVER abused kids sexually. Now we know that that was wrong and as soonas we do that voila! a succession of women charged with child sexual abuse.

It is just another example of preconceptions trumping true justice.

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Hey Dad: social philosophy.
Reply #68 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:05pm

Braveheart have some stats on this. Only 5% of offenders are female. I thought women are traditionally the protectors of children. Some of the stats are hard to believe, so not sure how reliable they are.
...........................................................

Females do sexually abuse in a small proportion of cases, approximately 5% of
female victims and 20% of male victims experience sexual abuse perpetrated by a
female.

The majority of perpetrators are male (in excess of 95 per cent) against male and
female children.

http://www.bravehearts.org.au/docs/facts_and_stats.pdf

ID Mnemonic, the braveheart site seems to have some information re reasons for etc

http://www.bravehearts.org.au/docs/facts_and_stats.pdf

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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gold_medal

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Re: Hey Dad: social philosophy.
Reply #69 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:09pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:05pm:

Braveheart have some stats on this. Only 5% of offenders are female. I thought women are traditionally the protectors of children. Some of the stats are hard to believe, so not sure how reliable they are.
...........................................................

Females do sexually abuse in a small proportion of cases, approximately 5% of
female victims and 20% of male victims experience sexual abuse perpetrated by a
female.

The majority of perpetrators are male (in excess of 95 per cent) against male and
female children.

http://www.bravehearts.org.au/docs/facts_and_stats.pdf

ID Mnemonic, the braveheart site seems to have some information re reasons for etc

http://www.bravehearts.org.au/docs/facts_and_stats.pdf

Hetty's intentions are good but she is a hysteric, seeing problems everywher she looks and very conveniently saying it is only men. She loses credibility with som of her nonsense. If she' dial it back some and show a litle rational balance occassionally she might be credible, but for now, she sounds more like a lunatic than an activist.

And like it or not... MANY women sexually abuse children or have the media reports totally skipped by you? Just think about it a minute... Do the numbers you read about look anything like a 20:1 ration in favour of men as Hetty claims?

The reason so many women pedophiles got away with it for decades as it was considered IMPOSSIBLE and hetty just continues on with this fiction.

Rosemary West anyone???
Moors murderess???

and notable both were deeply violent to go with it.

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Ex Dame Pansi Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 24168	Re: Hey Dad: social philosophy. Reply #70 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:20pm Rosemary West anyone??? Moors murderess??? and notable both were deeply violent to go with it .................................................. We could both quote all the well known horrendous crimes, but who's to say they weren't part of the 5%. I'll see if I can get some ABS stats.
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gold_medal

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Re: Hey Dad: social philosophy.
Reply #71 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:28pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:20pm:

Rosemary West anyone???
Moors murderess???

and notable both were deeply violent to go with it

..................................................

We could both quote all the well known horrendous crimes, but who's to say they weren't part of the 5%.

I'll see if I can get some ABS stats.

ABS probably wont cut it. The classification of sex crimes is too broad. I admit to being as surprised as you at the large numbers of women pedophiles but that doesnt make it wrong.

Bravehearts however gets annoying by its absolute insistence that no child ever lies and rights for children must always be allowed to overturn the rights of adults. it is just another extremist group that ends up being ignored because it cant work rationally in the real world.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Hey Dad: social philosophy.
Reply #72 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:42pm

gold_medal wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:09pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:05pm:

Braveheart have some stats on this. Only 5% of offenders are female. I thought women are traditionally the protectors of children. Some of the stats are hard to believe, so not sure how reliable they are.
...........................................................

Females do sexually abuse in a small proportion of cases, approximately 5% of
female victims and 20% of male victims experience sexual abuse perpetrated by a
female.

The majority of perpetrators are male (in excess of 95 per cent) against male and
female children.

http://www.bravehearts.org.au/docs/facts_and_stats.pdf

ID Mnemonic, the braveheart site seems to have some information re reasons for etc

http://www.bravehearts.org.au/docs/facts_and_stats.pdf

Hetty's intentions are good but she is a hysteric, seeing problems everywher she looks and very conveniently saying it is only men. She loses credibility with som of her nonsense. If she' dial it back some and show a litle rational balance occassionally she might be credible, but for now, she sounds more like a lunatic than an activist.

And like it or not... MANY women sexually abuse children or have the media reports totally skipped by you? Just think about it a minute... Do the numbers you read about look anything like a 20:1 ration in favour of men as Hetty claims?

The reason so many women pedophiles got away with it for decades as it was considered IMPOSSIBLE and hetty just continues on with this fiction.

Rosemary West anyone???
Moors murderess???

and notable both were deeply violent to go with it.

woman pedophiles Cheesy

LOL

dream on will you Cheesy

LOL

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Hey Dad: social philosophy.
Reply #73 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:42pm

As discussed in more detail below, men sexually abuse children far more frequently than do women (Abel & Harlow 2001)

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/421-440/tandi429.aspx

The majority of sex offences reported to Queensland police between 1996 and 1998 were committed against children younger than 16 yrs of age (58%) Most of the offenders were male (71%) and most were known to their victim in some way (60%) many were identified as relatives (26%) (Reported sexual offences in Queensland- Qld Criminal Justice Commission Dec 1999)

http://www.help4kids.com.au/statistics.htm

This is disturbing.
..............................

A new report from the Australian Bureau of Statistics shows more than 7,000 children, from babies to 14 year olds, were sexually abused last year.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-06-23/7000-children-sexually-abused-last-year/27...

Although males clearly constitute the majority of perpetrators, a review of the evidence for female sex abusers (McCloskey & Raphael, 2005), suggests that females do abuse in a small proportion of cases.

http://www.aifs.gov.au/nch/pubs/sheets/rs7/rs7.html

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gold_medal

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Re: Hey Dad: social philosophy.
Reply #74 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:48pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 5:42pm:

As discussed in more detail below, men sexually abuse children far more frequently than do women (Abel & Harlow 2001)

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/421-440/tandi429.aspx

The majority of sex offences reported to Queensland police between 1996 and 1998 were committed against children younger than 16 yrs of age (58%) Most of the offenders were male (71%) and most were known to their victim in some way (60%) many were identified as relatives (26%) (Reported sexual offences in Queensland- Qld Criminal Justice Commission Dec 1999)

http://www.help4kids.com.au/statistics.htm

This is disturbing.
..............................

A new report from the Australian Bureau of Statistics shows more than 7,000 children, from babies to 14 year olds, were sexually abused last year.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-06-23/7000-children-sexually-abused-last-year/27...

Although males clearly constitute the majority of perpetrators, a review of the evidence for female sex abusers (McCloskey & Raphael, 2005), suggests that females do abuse in a small proportion of cases.

http://www.aifs.gov.au/nch/pubs/sheets/rs7/rs7.html

some of that data is old. It is a realtively new discovery of the preonderance of female abusers. The whole study of child sex abuse is quite new as until relatively recently it was ignored in a wholesale manner by pretty much everybody. It is going to take some time for more accurate figures to come in.

And pansi, do not assume I am saying anything different to you in regards to abuse. we are both apalled and disgusted by it. We just have differeing opinions around the edges of it eg statistics and methodologies.

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