Australian Politics Forum - Same sex marriage

BigOl64

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Re: Same sex marriage
Reply #75 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 2:14pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 1:33pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 12:17pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 12:04pm:

You were the one that used the term "absolute" power.

The Constitution uses the term "exclusive" power. And exclusive powers are listed in s52.
The power to legislate on marriage is NOT and exclusive power listed in s52.

The Commonweath has power to legislate over marriage. It does not have EXCLUSIVE power to do that. Hence a State may make any legislation it wishes so long as it is not inconsistent under s109.

A gay marriage law is clearly not inconsistent with the Marriage Act as the Marriage Act cleary and unambiguously only applies to hetrosexual unions.

I suggest you learn a little about the history of our Constitution and how it treats powers of the States and Commonwealth before you get too carried away insulting people. OK?

At last you are right about something; I did not use the term "exclusive power"; kudos to you.

Only a moron would argue that a gay marriage law by the states is not inconsistent with the federal marriage act amendment of 2004 with specifically defines marriage being between a man and a woman.

While I'm learning the intricacies of the constitution, i suggest you get going on your primary school comprehension skills.

No - you didn't use the term "exclusive power". You just made things up and said "absolute power". Why did you make that up? Were you being deliberately dishonest? Or are you just a bit dim?

But it is good to see you are slowly grasping some concepts here:
the federal marriage act amendment of 2004 with specifically defines marriage being between a man and a woman.
Exactly right! It SPECIFICALLY defines marriage being between a man and a woman for the purposes of that Act

Hence - a marriage between a same sex couple is not valid under that act.

But if a State parliament legislates to allow same sex marriage - then that is not inconsistent with the Marriage Act because the federal marriage act amendment of 2004 specifically defines marriage being between a man and a woman.

For your argument to make any sense, what you need to show us is why you think that a State Parliaments power's for legislating with respect to marriage has been dissolved (provided there is no inconsistency with s109 of the Constitution)

Unless you are trying to argue that a marriage between a man and a woman is exactly the same thing as a marriage between a man and a man. If it is - I suggest you may be doing it wrong. If it isn't - why on earth did Howard make the amendment in the first place?

You're a dill.

Your total inability to grasp even the most basic of concepts is exasperating to say the least.

1. The constitution gives the FEDERAL government power to legislate ALL marriage. S51

2. The constitution gives the FEDERAL government precedence over state legislation. s 109

3. The federal marriage act 2004 define marriage as between a man and a woman.

4. The state CANNOT redefine marriage in contravention of the federal act

If the FEDERAL government repeals or amends the amendment, then and ONLY then can the state change their acts to include gay marriage.

This conversation is FVCKEN OVER, your are as moronic and infantile as prevailing/ greens_win and corpulent whitey and as such you will be treated withe same contempt as they are. Angry

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hawil

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Re: Same sex marriage
Reply #76 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 2:18pm

Prevailing wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 9:29am:

Lets all sue any pollies like Adam Bandt, & Tasmanian Premier Lara Giddings who try to abuse the legislative power of the parliament for personal benefit on major change and ideology without due constitutional process of a referendum...if we all sue these fascist dictators they will back off in a hurry...lets go Aussie..,..

I agree the politicians are a bunch of hippocrites, be they hetero or homosexuals, what concerns me more, is this:
When are Councils and governments going to provide separate toilets and change rooms for homosexuals.
How do some teenagers feel being ogled on by some homosexuals, be it gays or lesbians; after all we do not use commen toilets and change rooms for men and women.
The gay community has been offered a finger and they took the whole arm.

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Prevailing

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Re: Same sex marriage
Reply #77 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:07pm

.rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 1:37pm:

Prevailing wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 12:24pm:

Literally thousands of Christians, and others will challenge any change to the legal definition of Marriage that does not have the constitutional mandate of a referendum in the High Court...

Are you paying any attention at all?

I don't think anyone is suggesting any change to the legal definition of Marriage from the Marriage Act.
And certainly no one is proposing any changes to the Constitution.

Are you actually a person? Or just a piece of software that generates random nonsensical phrases?

Feeble minded diversionary tactics don't work in the High Court...yes you are proposing to use the Parliament to make executive legislation on a matter the Parliament has no power to do so without a peoples mandate...every Christian will be lining up to challenge this in the High Court... Grin

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The Government Supports Gynocide
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Prevailing Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7169 Stop Men	Re: Same sex marriage Reply #78 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:29pm I believe a Christian who did not challenge in the High Court unconstitutional legislation changing the definition of marriage in the Parliament without a referendum will be asked to give account of why they did not stand on the day of evil...
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adelcrow Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20133 everywhere Gender:	Re: Same sex marriage Reply #79 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:32pm Jesus said "Love thy fellow man" so the states are just doing Gods work by allowing gay marriage
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Prevailing Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7169 Stop Men	Re: Same sex marriage Reply #80 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:41pm adelcrow wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:32pm: Jesus said "Love thy fellow man" so the states are just doing Gods work by allowing gay marriage He also said not on jot of the Law would pass away - every Christian has a duty to defend the constitution and due process from dictatorship....
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sexy_beast Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 575 Gender:	Re: Same sex marriage Reply #81 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:43pm Why are the left so pressed about this (non) issue? There are far bigger concerns in our country, such as the carbon tax, te regular boat arrivals and debt, and they're concerned about something this trivial, petty and frivolous.
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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Same sex marriage Reply #82 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:44pm sexy_beast wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:43pm: Why are the left so pressed about this (non) issue? There are far bigger concerns in our country, such as the carbon tax, te regular boat arrivals and debt, and they're concerned about something this trivial, petty and frivolous. If it's not an issue let it pass and move on.
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adelcrow

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Re: Same sex marriage
Reply #83 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:45pm

sexy_beast wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:43pm:

Why are the left so pressed about this (non) issue? There are far bigger concerns in our country, such as the carbon tax, te regular boat arrivals and debt, and they're concerned about something this trivial, petty and frivolous.

There are plenty of threads on those issues if u want to discuss them..this one is about gay marriage

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Go the Bunnies

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John Smith

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Re: Same sex marriage
Reply #84 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:47pm

Prevailing wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:41pm:

adelcrow wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:32pm:

Jesus said "Love thy fellow man" so the states are just doing Gods work by allowing gay marriage

He also said not on jot of the Law would pass away - every Christian has a duty to defend the constitution and due process from dictatorship....

so the Australian Muslims are not obliged to defend our constitution?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Upton Sinclair

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Re: Same sex marriage
Reply #85 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:48pm

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 2:14pm:

You're a dill.

Your total inability to grasp even the most basic of concepts is exasperating to say the least.

1. The constitution gives the FEDERAL government power to legislate ALL marriage. S51

2. The constitution gives the FEDERAL government precedence over state legislation. s 109

3. The federal marriage act 2004 define marriage as between a man and a woman.

4. The state CANNOT redefine marriage in contravention of the federal act

If the FEDERAL government repeals or amends the amendment, then and ONLY then can the state change their acts to include gay marriage.

http://theconversation.edu.au/explainer-can-tasmania-legalise-same-sex-marriage-...

Anne Twomey
Professor of Constitutional Law at University of Sydney
DISCLOSURE STATEMENT

If the court decided that “marriage” in the Constitution did not include same-sex marriage, then there would be no issue of a conflict between State and Commonwealth laws.

While the Commonwealth Parliament can only make laws on specific subjects listed in the Constitution, the states have full legislative power to make laws on any subject as long as it is not taken away from them by the Commonwealth Constitution. So if the Constitution only permitted the Commonwealth to make laws in relation to marriage in its traditional sense, this would not stop the states from making laws about other forms of marriage.

The only question would be whether these other unions could still be described as “marriage” if they are outside the constitutional meaning of that term.

If, on the other hand, the High Court held that the Commonwealth can make laws with respect to both opposite-sex and same-sex marriage, then it would have to decide whether there was an inconsistency between any state law on marriage and the Commonwealth’s marriage law. If there was an inconsistency, then the Commonwealth law would prevail and the state law would be inoperative to the extent of the inconsistency.

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John Smith

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Re: Same sex marriage
Reply #86 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:49pm

sexy_beast wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:43pm:

Why are the left so pressed about this (non) issue? There are far bigger concerns in our country, such as the carbon tax, te regular boat arrivals and debt, and they're concerned about something this trivial, petty and frivolous.

why is Abbott so pressed about this non -issue? why doens't he just allow a conscience vote and be done with it .... he has lots of other issues he can say no no no too ....

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Prevailing

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Re: Same sex marriage
Reply #87 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:49pm

MOTR wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:44pm:

sexy_beast wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:43pm:

Why are the left so pressed about this (non) issue? There are far bigger concerns in our country, such as the carbon tax, te regular boat arrivals and debt, and they're concerned about something this trivial, petty and frivolous.

If it's not an issue let it pass and move on.

It is an issue - the Parliament has no right to legislate summarily on these matters without a referendum...if they can do this they will claim the power to be able to legislate on religious belief as well...Its a huge issue relating to the power of the Parliament over our lives that no citizen can ignore...

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sexy_beast

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Re: Same sex marriage
Reply #88 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:50pm

adelcrow wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:45pm:

sexy_beast wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:43pm:

Why are the left so pressed about this (non) issue? There are far bigger concerns in our country, such as the carbon tax, te regular boat arrivals and debt, and they're concerned about something this trivial, petty and frivolous.

There are plenty of threads on those issues if u want to discuss them..this one is about gay marriage

Why are you so concerned? Do you want to marry your male lover?

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sexy_beast

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Re: Same sex marriage
Reply #89 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:51pm

John Smith wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:49pm:

sexy_beast wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:43pm:

Why are the left so pressed about this (non) issue? There are far bigger concerns in our country, such as the carbon tax, te regular boat arrivals and debt, and they're concerned about something this trivial, petty and frivolous.

why is Abbott so pressed about this non -issue? why doens't he just allow a conscience vote and be done with it .... he has lots of other issues he can say no no no too ....

He went to the last election with a promise of not amending the marriage act. To allow a conscience vote would be a breach of faith.

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