Australian Politics Forum - Islamic law and military service

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48805 At my desk.	Islamic law and military service Aug 12^th, 2012 at 1:02pm What is the Islamic law regarding military service to a Caliphate?
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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Islamic law and military service Reply #1 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 3:58pm Care to be a little more specific?
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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Islamic law and military service Reply #2 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:04pm If you can run fast and wave a white flag you are accepted.
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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Islamic law and military service Reply #3 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 4:13pm As opposed to the Zionist policy of "If you don't mind shooting little kids and women and using them as human shields you're accepted, oh and kicking old folks out of their homes, often with bulldozers"
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48805 At my desk.	Re: Islamic law and military service Reply #4 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 5:57pm Is it obligatory? For women also? For all Muslims or only those inside the Caliphate? It is my understanding that Muslims are called to visit Mecca once in their life. Is there any similar calling for Muslims who live outside the Caliphate to fight for the Caliphate? For how long?
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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Islamic law and military service Reply #5 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 6:50pm Women serve in the IDF and some of my best colleagues were female. Muslim countries do not permit women to serve. Muslims see women as inferior and this is one of many basic rights they are denied.
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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic law and military service
Reply #6 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 10:19pm

freediver wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 5:57pm:

Is it obligatory?

For women also?

I'm not aware of any obligatory state military service according to Islam.

However if a Muslim land is occupied or attacked, then it's obligatory upon all Muslims to protect it, as a group responsibility.

freediver wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 5:57pm:

For all Muslims or only those inside the Caliphate? It is my understanding that Muslims are called to visit Mecca once in their life. Is there any similar calling for Muslims who live outside the Caliphate to fight for the Caliphate?

For how long?

What exactly are you driving at there? You think Muslims for instance from Australia, would have to go and serve in the army of the Caliphate, like how Jewish Australians today go and do their military service for the Zionist army? And that therefore somehow they are not loyal Australian citizens?

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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic law and military service
Reply #7 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 10:24pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 6:50pm:

Women serve in the IDF and some of my best colleagues were female.

I know you're so full of yourself you can't help but jump in front and toot your own horn, but I think freediver was asking about Islam and a Caliphate.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 6:50pm:

Muslim countries do not permit women to serve.
Muslims see women as inferior and this is one of many basic rights they are denied.

Women have been involved in military campaigns since the time of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself.

You are so full of stinking turds they are bursting out of your mouth.

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freediver

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Re: Islamic law and military service
Reply #8 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 10:38pm

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 10:19pm:

I'm not aware of any obligatory state military service according to Islam.

Apologies. I found it now. It seems I had you confused with Malik. Is this a Shite thing?

Malik Shakur wrote on Jul 5^th, 2008 at 1:11pm:

Yes, a small levy is imposed because Muslims are obligated to serve in the military and protect the citizens of the Islamic State, that includes non-Muslims.

Non Muslims however are not obligated to join the army, nor defend the nation in case of attack.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 10:19pm:

However if a Muslim land is occupied or attacked, then it's obligatory upon all Muslims to protect it, as a group responsibility.

Interesting. I know you think the last Caliphate ended last century. However I am pretty sure Falah considered Afghanistan to be a proper Islamic state. Would that mean he would feel obligued to go and defend it? Perhaps that is where he disappeared to.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 10:19pm:

What exactly are you driving at there? You think Muslims for instance from Australia, would have to go and serve in the army of the Caliphate, like how Jewish Australians today go and do their military service for the Zionist army? And that therefore somehow they are not loyal Australian citizens?

I guess you answered that above.

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 10:24pm:

Women have been involved in military campaigns since the time of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself.

Can you give some examples please?

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Islamic law and military service
Reply #9 - Aug 12^th, 2012 at 10:56pm

abu_rashid wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 10:24pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 6:50pm:

Women serve in the IDF and some of my best colleagues were female.

I know you're so full of yourself you can't help but jump in front and toot your own horn, but I think freediver was asking about Islam and a Caliphate.

.

I was giving you the example of why Jews are more advanced and fair than Islam.
Maybe another reason why we have kicked Muslims all over the battlefields each time they are foolish enough to attack us.

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Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26480 Australia	Re: Islamic law and military service Reply #10 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 6:16am Avram Horowitz wrote on Aug 12^th, 2012 at 6:50pm: Women serve in the IDF and some of my best colleagues were female. Muslim countries do not permit women to serve. Muslims see women as inferior and this is one of many basic rights they are denied. Like australia until just now? SOB
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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic law and military service
Reply #11 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 7:40am

This is your army Avram? Murdering women and little kids who surrendered? You must be so proud of these animals, and the scumbags who make a mockery of the war crimes they committed by giving them 45 days.

Israeli soldier gets 45 days for killings

An Israeli soldier charged with manslaughter after shooting dead a Palestinian mother and daughter waving a white flag during the 2009 offensive in the Gaza Strip has been sentenced to 45 days in prison after a plea bargain changed the charges to illegal use of a weapon.

A statement on Sunday from the Israeli military spokesman noted the plea bargain was reached "following a mediation process and upon examination of the evidence with the recommendation of the military court".

A manslaughter conviction could have carried a 20-year prison sentence.

The soldier, who has since completed his military service and was identified in media reports only as S, was accused of killing Ria Abu Hajaj, 64, and her daughter Majda, 37, as they were waving a white flag.
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They were part of a group fleeing the fighting on January 4, 2009, the first day of Israel's ground offensive against Gaza militants.

Soldiers in Gaza had received reports that a fighter, who could open fire on the troops, was hiding among women trying to get away.

S, and other soldiers, opened fire at the women, in defiance of orders.

His lawyers argued there was no proven connection between his opening fire and the deaths of the two women. They further claimed the two events took place at different times.

The incident was one of several cited in the United Nations-initiated Goldstone Report, compiled after South African judge Richard Goldstone led a fact-finding mission to the Gaza Strip to investigate claims of war crimes during Israel's December 2008-January 2009 Operation Cast Lead against Gaza militias.

The 575-page report accused both the Israeli military and Palestinian militants of war crimes and said Israeli soldiers had deliberately targeted civilians.

Goldstone [a Jew!] later retracted some of his accusations against Israel.

The other members of his team did not.

Source: The Age

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Big Dave

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Re: Islamic law and military service
Reply #12 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 8:41pm

Hey abu, your mate falah put up a thread on aussie muslim about a bunch of "kaffur" accidents and how it is gods will because they are non-believers. He even posted an article on all of the aussie tourists that are dying in bali. 2 of those deaths were young boys. One was electrocuted and the other was hit by a boat. Very poor taste and disrespectful to the dead. How do you feel about such threads from a website that you represent? Is that the freedom of speech you feel so strongly about?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48805 At my desk.	Re: Islamic law and military service Reply #13 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 9:05pm Apparently Abu has been banned from there. Otherwise I am sure he would be over there telling Falah to pull his head in, like all the other Muslims are.
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abu_rashid

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Re: Islamic law and military service
Reply #14 - Aug 13^th, 2012 at 10:29pm

Big Dave wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 8:41pm:

Hey abu, your mate falah put up a thread on aussie muslim about a bunch of "kaffur" accidents and how it is gods will because they are non-believers.

Of course it is God's will, just as if they are believers, it is also God's will. I'm afraid you've completely misunderstood the concepts involved there.

Big Dave wrote on Aug 13^th, 2012 at 8:41pm:

He even posted an article on all of the aussie tourists that are dying in bali. 2 of those deaths were young boys. One was electrocuted and the other was hit by a boat. Very poor taste and disrespectful to the dead. How do you feel about such threads from a website that you represent? Is that the freedom of speech you feel so strongly about?

Firstly I do not represent that site. I am a member, just like any other.

Secondly, if you'd read the thread properly, you'd have noticed my sentiments expressed in there. Clearly you just read what you want, taking things out of context and not even bothering to read the full dialogue.

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