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Karnal

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Re: Afghanistan
Reply #180 - Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:35pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:32pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:28pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:24pm:

I think a policy of containment is better for Afghanistan.

Keep the training camps under control by satellite surveillance and then targeted strike from the air bombing the camps?

That is much better and more likely to be successful.

Then use intelligence agencies on the ground - CIA, MOSSAD etc

What's wrong with training camps? Don't we want them to get an education?

Terrorist training camps.
The 9/11 hijackers, the London and Madrid bombers were all received training in Afghanistan under Taliban controlled zones.

It is the biggest problem we face but satellites can pick them up and if we use intelligence services we can pin-point then strike them.

Can be cruise missile or drones.

Then there is no loss of life for we in the west and deaths in the camps.

I like this.

In Israel we have always preferred air strike response to ground force.

Sure you can use drones. Are you sure those terrorists were all trained in Afghanistan?

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Afghanistan Reply #181 - Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:37pm West German intelligence tracked all of the ringleaders to Afghanistan. Mossad also tracked both Mohammed Khan and Mohammed Atta as person of interest and from Germany to Afghanistan. Yes they were there.
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96716	Re: Afghanistan Reply #182 - Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:38pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:37pm: West German intelligence tracked all of the ringleaders to Afghanistan. Mossad also tracked both Mohammed Khan and Mohammed Atta as person of interest and from Germany to Afghanistan. Yes they were there. Not the US ally, Pakistan?
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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Afghanistan
Reply #183 - Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:38pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:35pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:32pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:28pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:24pm:

I think a policy of containment is better for Afghanistan.

Keep the training camps under control by satellite surveillance and then targeted strike from the air bombing the camps?

That is much better and more likely to be successful.

Then use intelligence agencies on the ground - CIA, MOSSAD etc

What's wrong with training camps? Don't we want them to get an education?

Terrorist training camps.
The 9/11 hijackers, the London and Madrid bombers were all received training in Afghanistan under Taliban controlled zones.

It is the biggest problem we face but satellites can pick them up and if we use intelligence services we can pin-point then strike them.

Can be cruise missile or drones.

Then there is no loss of life for we in the west and deaths in the camps.

I like this.

In Israel we have always preferred air strike response to ground force.

Sure you can use drones. Are you sure those terrorists were all trained in Afghanistan?

We can use drones and also use cruise missiles fired from US ships in international waters in Indian Ocean.

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Afghanistan
Reply #184 - Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:42pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:38pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:37pm:

West German intelligence tracked all of the ringleaders to Afghanistan.

Mossad also tracked both Mohammed Khan and Mohammed Atta as person of interest and from Germany to Afghanistan.

Yes they were there.

Not the US ally, Pakistan?

They traveled from Pakistan into Afghanistan.
They were tracked by the CIA.

Mossad also tracked Mohammed Khan to Afghanistan from Israel.

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Afghanistan Reply #185 - Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:43pm But i should add that if there are training camps identified over the border zone in Pakistan then we should also take the same measures and strike these camps if we can do so.
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Karnal

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Re: Afghanistan
Reply #186 - Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:49pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

But i should add that if there are training camps identified over the border zone in Pakistan then we should also take the same measures and strike these camps if we can do so.

You have to admit, Al Qaida is a bit of a spent force. How many training camps are there now?

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, Avram, but there are limits on what you can do in other sovereign countries. They have a set of agreements called international law. The military have a phenomenon called rules of engagement.

If you breach these, you create a precedent. This means that countries like China can refer to your breech on the Security Council.

This is why, in the long run, ignoring the rules can be against your own interests.

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Afghanistan Reply #187 - Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:52pm I am fully aware of being referred to the United Nations for breaching engagement. How many times you think this has happened to my country????
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96716	Re: Afghanistan Reply #188 - Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:54pm Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:52pm: I am fully aware of being referred to the United Nations for breaching engagement. How many times you think this has happened to my country???? Ha! Quite a bit I imagine. This is why Israel will never be able to claim the high moral ground.
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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Afghanistan
Reply #189 - Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:54pm

Just so you know i myself never once did not follow the strict rules of engagement.

Every single time so yes I know about them.

But here we are talking about targetted removal.

Where was Osama Bin Laden removed? Pakistan. Was this a breach?
There was no reporting of the USA to the UN.

So this is what I am saying.

Targetted removal of terror suspects or training camps is different to invasion or war act.

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Afghanistan
Reply #190 - Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:55pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:54pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:52pm:

I am fully aware of being referred to the United Nations for breaching engagement.

How many times you think this has happened to my country????

Ha! Quite a bit I imagine. This is why Israel will never be able to claim the high moral ground.

I am not sure we care.

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Karnal

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Re: Afghanistan
Reply #191 - Sep 7^th, 2012 at 3:04pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:54pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:52pm:

I am fully aware of being referred to the United Nations for breaching engagement.

How many times you think this has happened to my country????

Ha! Quite a bit I imagine. This is why Israel will never be able to claim the high moral ground.

I am not sure we care.

Most Israelis are Jews. You care.

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Karnal

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Re: Afghanistan
Reply #192 - Sep 7^th, 2012 at 3:08pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:54pm:

Just so you know i myself never once did not follow the strict rules of engagement.

Every single time so yes I know about them.

But here we are talking about targetted removal.

Where was Osama Bin Laden removed? Pakistan. Was this a breach?
There was no reporting of the USA to the UN.

So this is what I am saying.

Targetted removal of terror suspects or training camps is different to invasion or war act.

But it's not different to a breach of a nation's sovereign law. Australians have a problem with people coming to Australia by boat. What do you think we'd say if the US Navy SEALS flew in, shot up a compound, killed a few, and kidnapped the rest?

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Afghanistan
Reply #193 - Sep 7^th, 2012 at 3:20pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 3:04pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:54pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:52pm:

I am fully aware of being referred to the United Nations for breaching engagement.

How many times you think this has happened to my country????

Ha! Quite a bit I imagine. This is why Israel will never be able to claim the high moral ground.

I am not sure we care.

Most Israelis are Jews. You care.

We care about defending our country from attack.
If we have the Arab league reporting us for breach of engagement because a targetted removal has been executed, then we will just say fine, i assure you.

But anyway, you seem my aim is to remove terror - not start wars with countries.

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Karnal

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Re: Afghanistan
Reply #194 - Sep 7^th, 2012 at 3:28pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 3:20pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 3:04pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:55pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:54pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 7^th, 2012 at 2:52pm:

I am fully aware of being referred to the United Nations for breaching engagement.

How many times you think this has happened to my country????

Ha! Quite a bit I imagine. This is why Israel will never be able to claim the high moral ground.

I am not sure we care.

Most Israelis are Jews. You care.

We care about defending our country from attack.
If we have the Arab league reporting us for breach of engagement because a targetted removal has been executed, then we will just say fine, i assure you.

But anyway, you seem my aim is to remove terror - not start wars with countries.

Yes, but there are a number of Israelis with different views to yourself, no?

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