Australian Politics Forum - Obama has already won,

Avram Horowitz

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Re: Obama has already won,
Reply #90 - Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:11am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:06am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 10:26am:

As I have said in my experience in Sydney this year most of the Aussies I know are very nice about Israel and admire us.
It is people here who do not reflect up the real Aussie view.

I think its true that rabid anti-Semitism has not taken root in Australia. But, I suspect Australians are largely ignorant of the vast complexities of Israeli society and its myriad expressions of Judaic beliefs.

There are two sectors in my experience here.
One is the everyday gentile Aussies who only know of Israel what they see on the tv of the exchanges between us and Palestinian terrorists. Though I have found everyday Aussies to be very supportive in their comments on Israel's tough stands.

Then there is people of the Jewish community . They know a lot more.
My girlfriend is a Melbourne Aussie and I have met her family they are very informed on Israel and the traditions etc.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Obama has already won,
Reply #91 - Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:14am

adelcrow wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:08am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:06am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 10:26am:

As I have said in my experience in Sydney this year most of the Aussies I know are very nice about Israel and admire us.
It is people here who do not reflect up the real Aussie view.

I think its true that rabid anti-Semitism has not taken root in Australia. But, I suspect Australians are largely ignorant of the vast complexities of Israeli society and its myriad expressions of Judaic beliefs.

I think its just that Avram doesn't tell Aussies to their faces that Israel is a much better place and we have no idea what we are doing socially, economically or politically...like he does on here.

Probably not... But its hardly an Israeli / Jewish trait to imagine one's own country and culture is superior to all others.

What, for example, does the odious adjective, "Un-Australian" really imply? (Excluding the fact that it is a slavish rephrasing of the US rallying cry).

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Obama has already won,
Reply #92 - Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:21am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:11am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:06am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 10:26am:

As I have said in my experience in Sydney this year most of the Aussies I know are very nice about Israel and admire us.
It is people here who do not reflect up the real Aussie view.

I think its true that rabid anti-Semitism has not taken root in Australia. But, I suspect Australians are largely ignorant of the vast complexities of Israeli society and its myriad expressions of Judaic beliefs.

There are two sectors in my experience here.
One is the everyday gentile Aussies who only know of Israel what they see on the tv of the exchanges between us and Palestinian terrorists. Though I have found everyday Aussies to be very supportive in their comments on Israel's tough stands.

Then there is people of the Jewish community . They know a lot more.
My girlfriend is a Melbourne Aussie and I have met her family they are very informed on Israel and the traditions etc.

I have no doubt that some non-Jewish Australians are well informed on Israeli issues.

Personally, I now see the the fight for the land (now Israel) as part of a long and ancient battle that will have no end. None is more right or more wrong than any other... Their respective causes are almost beyond good and evil. What matters is the outcome... i.e. which side can hold the land and for how long... To put it crudely, it is akin to the outcome of a sports competition.

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adelcrow

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Re: Obama has already won,
Reply #93 - Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:22am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:14am:

adelcrow wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:08am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:06am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 10:26am:

As I have said in my experience in Sydney this year most of the Aussies I know are very nice about Israel and admire us.
It is people here who do not reflect up the real Aussie view.

I think its true that rabid anti-Semitism has not taken root in Australia. But, I suspect Australians are largely ignorant of the vast complexities of Israeli society and its myriad expressions of Judaic beliefs.

I think its just that Avram doesn't tell Aussies to their faces that Israel is a much better place and we have no idea what we are doing socially, economically or politically...like he does on here.

Probably not... But its hardly an Israeli / Jewish trait to imagine one's own country and culture is superior to all others.

What, for example, does the odious adjective, "Un-Australian" really imply? (Excluding the fact that it is a slavish rephrasing of the US rallying cry).

I think being un-australian is more about being un-american than anything else..
Being un-american means your not still stuck in the US of the 1950's when it was ok to hang black people and beat your wife for not cooking your steak correctly.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Obama has already won,
Reply #94 - Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:25am

adelcrow wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:22am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:14am:

adelcrow wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:08am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:06am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 10:26am:

As I have said in my experience in Sydney this year most of the Aussies I know are very nice about Israel and admire us.
It is people here who do not reflect up the real Aussie view.

I think its true that rabid anti-Semitism has not taken root in Australia. But, I suspect Australians are largely ignorant of the vast complexities of Israeli society and its myriad expressions of Judaic beliefs.

I think its just that Avram doesn't tell Aussies to their faces that Israel is a much better place and we have no idea what we are doing socially, economically or politically...like he does on here.

Probably not... But its hardly an Israeli / Jewish trait to imagine one's own country and culture is superior to all others.

What, for example, does the odious adjective, "Un-Australian" really imply? (Excluding the fact that it is a slavish rephrasing of the US rallying cry).

I think being un-australian is more about being un-american than anything else..
Being un-american means your not still stuck in the US of the 1950's when it was ok to hang black people and beat your wife for not cooking your steak correctly.

Being un-Australian means whatever the speaker wants it to mean... The malignancy of the term is that the speaker knows the audience will register the term as synonymous with "good" or "great" or "morally superior" and as such can instil his/her rhetoric (be it perverse of malign) into the minds of the audience.

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adelcrow

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Re: Obama has already won,
Reply #95 - Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:28am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:25am:

adelcrow wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:22am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:14am:

adelcrow wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:08am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:06am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 10:26am:

As I have said in my experience in Sydney this year most of the Aussies I know are very nice about Israel and admire us.
It is people here who do not reflect up the real Aussie view.

I think its true that rabid anti-Semitism has not taken root in Australia. But, I suspect Australians are largely ignorant of the vast complexities of Israeli society and its myriad expressions of Judaic beliefs.

I think its just that Avram doesn't tell Aussies to their faces that Israel is a much better place and we have no idea what we are doing socially, economically or politically...like he does on here.

Probably not... But its hardly an Israeli / Jewish trait to imagine one's own country and culture is superior to all others.

What, for example, does the odious adjective, "Un-Australian" really imply? (Excluding the fact that it is a slavish rephrasing of the US rallying cry).

I think being un-australian is more about being un-american than anything else..
Being un-american means your not still stuck in the US of the 1950's when it was ok to hang black people and beat your wife for not cooking your steak correctly.

Being un-Australian means whatever the speaker wants it to mean... The malignancy of the term is that the speaker knows the audience will register the term as synonymous with "good" or "great" or "morally superior" and as such can instil his/her rhetoric (be it perverse of malign) into the minds of the audience.

Personally i think its a meaningless line used by lazy ignorant people.

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Obama has already won,
Reply #96 - Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:32am

i was speaking in general. There are guys at my university much more informed of course and they are not Jews.

The lecturer at university is also gentile and is very informed.

He and i do not agree on many things on the Middle East but he has a good informed opinion.
He is obviously very different to fools on here who just throw the comments 'child killers' and 'land stealers' etc.
It is they who are uninformed. They would have no idea what Israel is really like.

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Obama has already won, Reply #97 - Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:34am i will 100% state though that in general in my time here, Aussies have been very polite and welcoming to me and supportive of where i am from. Not like here at all. I do not believe people on here think the same way as most aussies on things.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Obama has already won,
Reply #98 - Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:38am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:34am:

Not like here at all. I do not believe people on here think the same way as most aussies on things.

Don't be so sure... The safety of anonymity on boards like this bring out the malicious bully in many of us (our Jungian dark sides)... I would bet that 95% of the diatribes written here are not meant or believed by the author.

We've all got a bit of the bully in us when we can hide in the shadows.

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adelcrow

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Re: Obama has already won,
Reply #99 - Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:42am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:32am:

i was speaking in general. There are guys at my university much more informed of course and they are not Jews.

The lecturer at university is also gentile and is very informed.

He and i do not agree on many things on the Middle East but he has a good informed opinion.
He is obviously very different to fools on here who just throw the comments 'child killers' and 'land stealers' etc.
It is they who are uninformed. They would have no idea what Israel is really like.

Kinda like your generalisations about all Muslims...

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Obama has already won,
Reply #100 - Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:43am

some of the views here are very poorly informed of the situation.

Adelcrow for example points out that we just shoot random at anyone or anything.
Does he know what we can not return fire or make any move without express approval and authority to respond from central command in Tel Aviv?
No of course he doesnt.

Does he know that on the Sinai border that the information we receive on incursions into the territory and suspected attack come from the Egyptian Army?
That we talk everyday to Egypt border patrol and exchange trespassers?
No of course not, he assumes there is no cooperation.

Does he know that it is Jordan which will not permit the Palestinians to go past the camps they stay?
They are kept in the camps by Jordan (which has always claimed the West Bank for Jordan) so it can use as a political weapon?

No he doesnt know any of this.

Instead just anti-Jew, anti-Israel comments which is easy to make.

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Avram Horowitz

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Re: Obama has already won,
Reply #101 - Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:45am

adelcrow wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:42am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:32am:

i was speaking in general. There are guys at my university much more informed of course and they are not Jews.

The lecturer at university is also gentile and is very informed.

He and i do not agree on many things on the Middle East but he has a good informed opinion.
He is obviously very different to fools on here who just throw the comments 'child killers' and 'land stealers' etc.
It is they who are uninformed. They would have no idea what Israel is really like.

Kinda like your generalisations about all Muslims...

If you read some of my comments, i know Muslims. I can speak Arabic.
I have said that my generation would be prepared to deal with moderate Palestinians for a worked solution.

My generation is more to this thinking than my parents who had to fight several wars and my grandparents who had to flee concentration camps.

I am open to dealing with them for solutions - with moderates like Fatah but I am also strong in my belief that we must wipe Hamas and Hizbollah from this earth.
They do not want to deal with us, they want to kill us - so we will kill them.

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Obama has already won, Reply #102 - Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:46am i would know more about muslims and have better understanding of Islam and arabic culture than you ever will adelcrow.
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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Obama has already won,
Reply #103 - Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:47am

On the ground in the occupied West Bank with Jewish writer and commentator Peter Slezak where he speaks to former soldiers who speak out against the Israeli army’s cruel treatment of Palestinian boys arrested for no reason or minor misdemeanour’s and also Palestinian families.

http://www.australiansforpalestine.net/69395

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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Avram Horowitz Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3153 Australia Gender:	Re: Obama has already won, Reply #104 - Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:48am Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2012 at 11:47am: http://www.australiansforpalestine.net/69395 Pardon my english but you can **** off with this website.
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