Australian Politics Forum - Penalty for insulting the Prophet (pbuh)

polite_gandalf

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Re: Penalty for insulting the Prophet (pbuh)
Reply #30 - Sep 28^th, 2012 at 7:49pm

freediver wrote on Sep 28^th, 2012 at 6:39pm:

Try quoting what he actually said then.

Really? I pointed to what he said in the OP - is it really necessary for me to quote what is available by clicking on page 1? Did you read the OP? Did you notice what I pointed out - that he is not asking for opinions about what he is quoting, but rather what is the punishment for offending Allah? Besides, I already quoted what he said in another thread - which obviously mirrors what he thinks here:
Quote:

Islam does permit violence against those who insult Mohammad (pedophile bastard unworthy human)

The Islamic ideology says its ok to kill those who insult Mohammad which might explain the death toll from the recent video.

Baron also makes it clear he is not interested in a rational debate by using the deliberately offensive term "pedophile bastard unworthy human".

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Here's a tip: stick to what people actually say, not what you imagine they meant to say. It helps to avoid stupid arguments like this one.

it was a stupid debate long before I responded to anything. But you do raise one important point - and that relates to what he didn't say. He presents one particular point of view without making any attempt to acknowledge that this is only one of many points of view about this subject. He also didn't offer any sort of analysis on the source he quoted, and any shortcomings (which I already pointed out) that might exist. Obviously he is not interested in discussing the topic - which is clear when seeing his views on the subject - like what I quoted from another thread. He is only interested in spamming the forum with his bigotry and hate.

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It looked to me like he was asking a very simple question. It's funny how people can interpret the same thing so differently.

well I interpret "What is the punishment for insulting Allah, i cant find anything " as erm... asking what the punishment for insulting Allah is. There's nothing wrong with this discussion, but thats not what the thread is about. Why isn't he asking about punishment for insulting the prophet if he was really interested in discussing that?

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I think it is the Muslims that need educating. It does not really matter to everyone else whether the Muslims are correct or incorrect in their interpretation of Islam.

You don't think it matters when non-muslims base their opinion that islam (and by extension muslims) is evil purely based on their misunderstanding of what islamic doctrine prescribes? Islam-related violence isn't necessarily a one way street. Non-muslim's misconceptions about islam and muslims can absolutely lead to violence against muslims. Ignorance is the basis of prejudice against any group - and that goes for muslim's view of non-muslims just as much as non-muslim's view of muslims.

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Wow, that sounds very different to the Islam Abu has presented here. I wonder if Abu would consider you an apostate. He doesn't take kindly to apostates.

Maybe you should ask Abu that.

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I am interested in more detail about why so many Muslims have it wrong.

Well there are a lot of muslims for a start. If just 1% of muslims are expressing extreme views, thats still a relatively lot of people - but the point is, its only a tiny percentage of all muslims. Maybe the question you should be asking - given that the vast majority of muslims didn't go out rioting or calling for beheadings - is why so many muslims got it right?

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I am happy to let Muslims decide what Islam is, but I think it is a bit of a stretch for them to claim all the Jewish heritage as Muslim

Its just a simple statement of what the quran says. I'm not trying to argue over what the jews or christians or any other non-muslim believes, its a simply statement of what muslims believe according to the quran.

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Christians for example say that Jesus was a Jew. Trying to flip this on it's head and say that Abraham was a Christian is just silly.

that doesn't even make sense. If the Bible said that Abraham or Jesus or the Easter Bunny was a christian, then thats what it says, and in which case I would dispute anyone who tried to claim otherwise. I'm not saying whether any of it is right or wrong, just simply stating what the quran says. Is that so hard to understand??
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Penalty for insulting the Prophet (pbuh) Reply #31 - Sep 28^th, 2012 at 8:02pm double post
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Penalty for insulting the Prophet (pbuh)
Reply #32 - Sep 28^th, 2012 at 8:07pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 28^th, 2012 at 6:36pm:

I'm not avoiding them I've already answered them. Seriously dude, this is a really obvious and simple concept.

1. The jews follow the Torah
2. Muslims followed the Torah until the quran was revealed
3. The quran says that the children of Israel followed the torah

Point 2 is wrong the Quran says Muhammad was the first muslim in 39/11-12

There were no muslims before the Quran was revealed, the Quran says Muhammad was the first muslim.

Quote:

Pickthal, click all translations by ticking boxes on left
39/11-
Say, o Muhammad, lo I am commanded to worship Allah making religion pure for him (only)
http://quran.com/39/11

And i am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims
http://quran.com/39/12

If you have verses that contradict Muhammad being the first muslim you should read 4/82.

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Then do they not reflect upon the Quran, if it had been from any other than Allah they would have found much contradiction
http://quran.com/4/82

The Quran says Muhammad was the first muslim

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Penalty for insulting the Prophet (pbuh)
Reply #33 - Sep 28^th, 2012 at 8:37pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 28^th, 2012 at 8:07pm:

The Quran says Muhammad was the first muslim

can you explain 3:67 then?

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Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah ]. And he was not of the polytheists.

not to mention (once again) 2:132:
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And Abraham instructed his sons [to do the same] and [so did] Jacob, [saying], "O my sons, indeed Allah has chosen for you this religion, so do not die except while you are Muslims.

To be honest I don't know the full meaning of 39:12, and why it appears to contradict 2:132 and 3:67, but the central point cannot be disputed: 5:32 refers to the 'children of Israel' and the children of Israel are specifically identified as muslims in 2:132 - therefore 5:32 applies to muslims. My God its such a ridiculously simple and obvious point, I simply cannot fathom why you would try and dispute it.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Penalty for insulting the Prophet (pbuh)
Reply #34 - Sep 28^th, 2012 at 9:20pm

Quote:

Besides, I already quoted what he said in another thread - which obviously mirrors what he thinks here:

Yes it is funny how that is the only thing you will actually quote.

Quote:

Really? I pointed to what he said in the OP - is it really necessary for me to quote what is available by clicking on page 1?

Apparently it is.

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Baron also makes it clear he is not interested in a rational debate by using the deliberately offensive term "pedophile bastard unworthy human".

It looks to me like he was giving examples of what might get you killed.

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He presents one particular point of view without making any attempt to acknowledge that this is only one of many points of view about this subject.

What exactly do you expect? A thesis on the range of possible opinions?

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He also didn't offer any sort of analysis on the source he quoted

He was asking for opinions on it.

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Obviously he is not interested in discussing the topic - which is clear when seeing his views on the subject - like what I quoted from another thread.

So it is obvious from a quote from another thread that he is no interested in discussing in this thread? It sounds to me like he is the one trying to debate and you are looking for any barrier you can find.

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well I interpret "What is the punishment for insulting Allah, i cant find anything " as erm... asking what the punishment for insulting Allah is.

Funny, you have just spent the last few pages arguing the opposite. Can you see how clear it all becomes once you actually quote someone? You don't even have to use the quote function.

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There's nothing wrong with this discussion, but thats not what the thread is about.

So you keep saying. What is the one true topic again?

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You don't think it matters when non-muslims base their opinion that islam (and by extension muslims) is evil purely based on their misunderstanding of what islamic doctrine prescribes?

I think you'll find it is what Muslims themselves believe that makes people think Islam is evil

Quote:

Well there are a lot of muslims for a start. If just 1% of muslims are expressing extreme views, thats still a relatively lot of people - but the point is, its only a tiny percentage of all muslims.

So Abu is in the minority and you represent the majority? He seems to think the opposite. At the very least, the number of Muslims around the world fighting tooth and nail again other Muslims, democracy, human rights etc points to at least a significant portion of them having extreme views.

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Maybe the question you should be asking - given that the vast majority of muslims didn't go out rioting or calling for beheadings - is why so many muslims got it right?

Abu does not go around calling for beheadings either. That doesn't mean he doesn't support the barbaric shariah law.

You forgot to put this in a quote, were you going to respond to it?
Is the death penalty for apostasy also incorrect? Also, are you in a minority of Muslims with these beliefs? Are you a 'Koran only' Muslim? Are you even a Muslim?

Quote:

that doesn't even make sense. If the Bible said that Abraham or Jesus or the Easter Bunny was a christian, then thats what it says, and in which case I would dispute anyone who tried to claim otherwise. I'm not saying whether any of it is right or wrong, just simply stating what the quran says. Is that so hard to understand??

Ah, so the Koran says it, but the Koran is wrong?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Penalty for insulting the Prophet (pbuh)
Reply #35 - Sep 29^th, 2012 at 12:39am

freediver wrote on Sep 28^th, 2012 at 9:20pm:

So it is obvious from a quote from another thread that he is no interested in discussing in this thread? It sounds to me like he is the one trying to debate and you are looking for any barrier you can find.

lol - ok freediver, you know whatever. Usually when you want to start a sensible discussion about something you offer some direction to the topic, not just "here is the one and only interpretation on what islam prescribes for insulting the prophet - boom here it is - oh and by the way what is islam's punishment for offending Allah?"

What debate are we supposed to be having here? Is it about offending the prophet (as per the title), or is it about offending Allah? You understand the two are completely different right? You talk about barriers - I've offered my reasoned response to the source and what the quran says about how to deal with blasphemers on page 1 (do I have to quote that for you too?) - I'd love to continue that line of discussion, but funnily enough Baron seems only interested in cheap point scoring in relation to unrelated verses.

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I think you'll find it is what Muslims themselves believe that makes people think Islam is evil

Thats only part of it. When non-muslims see muslims behaving badly, it certainly helps to create prejudice against muslims. However that prejudice is greatly enhanced when prejudiced people can reinforce their hatred of muslims by convincing themselves that the bad behaviour is doctrinal - that muslims behaving badly are the rule, not the exception. Suddenly you get a whole range of misconceptions which prevent coexistence - eg "how can we coexist with muslims when they are commanded to slaughter non-muslims?" Even if muslims are behaving "normally" in a non-muslim community, how can the non-muslims not view the muslims with some degree of suspicion if they hold to such misconceptions? In fact it reminds me of a really good paper by sociologist Michael Humphrey called Culturalising the Abject: Islam, Law and Moral Panic in the West. I'm not sure if its freely available - but basically he explores the notorious gang rape trials of Lebanese muslims in Sydney in the early 2000s. He argues that sections of the media tried to portray the gang rape "culture" as normal and accepted behaviour according to islam. This process no doubt helped enhance the negative perceptions of the Sydney Muslim community.

Long story short, education is needed on both sides.

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So Abu is in the minority and you represent the majority? He seems to think the opposite. At the very least, the number of Muslims around the world fighting tooth and nail again other Muslims, democracy, human rights etc points to at least a significant portion of them having extreme views.

"significant portion" is neither here nor there. As I said there are a lot of muslims to start with - over 1 billion in fact. As I said, even just 1% being unrully can attract much international attention. The point though is that the disruption this minority can cause gives us little indication of the "good" behaviour of the vast majority of muslims. If you really want to get some handle of the context of all this, consider that the largest Muslim population in the world is a thriving democracy, with little disruption from extremists. The world's third largest muslim population coexists peacefully alongside hindus. Overall the vast majority of muslims have proven that they can live peacefully and harmoniously, and are not the rioters we saw these last weeks.

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Abu does not go around calling for beheadings either. That doesn't mean he doesn't support the barbaric shariah law.

First of all shariah law is not one clear, easily-definable set of rules. There are many different layers and aspects to it, covering a wide range of social and political issues. And needless to say, there are a million different interpretations of it. Saying that "shariah law" is this or that is rather meaningless. You need to specify what aspects of shariah law you are talking about. Also I'm guessing that you haven't studied shariah law , and probably don't know all the different kinds of laws. Thus it is a tad ignorant to talk about "barbaric shariah law" and criticise anyone who declares "support" for shariah law - without making any attempt to deconstruct the laws. You say Abu supports Shariah law - do you know exactly what laws he supports? There are in fact some very reasonable and "moderate" laws related to family matters - which have in fact been made legal in the UK.

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Ah, so the Koran says it, but the Koran is wrong?

I have no idea what you mean. I'm not talking about the right or wrong of the Quran - merely what is in the Quran.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Penalty for insulting the Prophet (pbuh)
Reply #36 - Sep 29^th, 2012 at 12:42am

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29^th, 2012 at 12:39am:

freediver wrote on Sep 28^th, 2012 at 9:20pm:

So it is obvious from a quote from another thread that he is no interested in discussing in this thread? It sounds to me like he is the one trying to debate and you are looking for any barrier you can find.

lol - ok freediver, you know whatever. Usually when you want to start a sensible discussion about something you offer some direction to the topic, not just "here is the one and only interpretation on what islam prescribes for insulting the prophet - boom here it is - oh and by the way what is islam's punishment for offending Allah?"

What debate are we supposed to be having here? Is it about offending the prophet (as per the title), or is it about offending Allah? You understand the two are completely different right? You talk about barriers - I've offered my reasoned response to the source and what the quran says about how to deal with blasphemers on page 1 (do I have to quote that for you too?) - I'd love to continue that line of discussion, but funnily enough Baron seems only interested in cheap point scoring in relation to unrelated verses.

Quote:

I think you'll find it is what Muslims themselves believe that makes people think Islam is evil

Thats only part of it. When non-muslims see muslims behaving badly, it certainly helps to create prejudice against muslims. However that prejudice is greatly enhanced when prejudiced people can reinforce their hatred of muslims by convincing themselves that the bad behaviour is doctrinal - that muslims behaving badly are the rule, not the exception. Suddenly you get a whole range of misconceptions which prevent coexistence - eg "how can we coexist with muslims when they are commanded to slaughter non-muslims?" Even if muslims are behaving "normally" in a non-muslim community, how can the non-muslims not view the muslims with some degree of suspicion if they hold to such misconceptions? In fact it reminds me of a really good paper by sociologist Michael Humphrey called Culturalising the Abject: Islam, Law and Moral Panic in the West. I'm not sure if its freely available - but basically he explores the notorious gang rape trials of Lebanese muslims in Sydney in the early 2000s. He argues that sections of the media tried to portray the gang rape "culture" as normal and accepted behaviour according to islam. This process no doubt helped enhance the negative perceptions of the Sydney Muslim community.

Long story short, education is needed on both sides.

Quote:

So Abu is in the minority and you represent the majority? He seems to think the opposite. At the very least, the number of Muslims around the world fighting tooth and nail again other Muslims, democracy, human rights etc points to at least a significant portion of them having extreme views.

"significant portion" is neither here nor there. As I said there are a lot of muslims to start with - over 1 billion in fact. Thus if even just 1% of them were unrully, it can attract much international attention. The point though is that the disruption this minority can cause gives us little indication of the "good" behaviour of the vast majority of muslims. If you really want to get some handle of the context of all this, consider that the largest Muslim population in the world is a thriving democracy, with little disruption from extremists. The world's third largest muslim population coexists peacefully alongside hindus. Overall the vast majority of muslims have proven that they can live peacefully and harmoniously, and are not the rioters we saw these last weeks.

Quote:

Abu does not go around calling for beheadings either. That doesn't mean he doesn't support the barbaric shariah law.

First of all shariah law is not one clear, easily-definable set of rules. There are many different layers and aspects to it, covering a wide range of social and political issues. And needless to say, there are a million different interpretations of it. Saying that "shariah law" is this or that is rather meaningless. You need to specify what aspects of shariah law you are talking about. Also I'm guessing that you haven't studied shariah law , and probably don't know all the different kinds of laws. Thus it is a tad ignorant to talk about "barbaric shariah law" and criticise anyone who declares "support" for shariah law - without making any attempt to deconstruct the laws. You say Abu supports Shariah law - do you know exactly what laws he supports? There are in fact some very reasonable and "moderate" laws related to family matters - which have in fact been made legal in the UK.

Quote:

Ah, so the Koran says it, but the Koran is wrong?

I have no idea what you mean. I'm not talking about the right or wrong of the Quran - merely what is in the Quran.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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abu_rashid

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Re: Penalty for insulting the Prophet (pbuh)
Reply #37 - Sep 29^th, 2012 at 1:11am

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 29^th, 2012 at 12:39am:

He argues that sections of the media tried to portray the gang rape "culture" as normal and accepted behaviour according to islam.

Unfortunately you are speaking to people here who promote and believe in such portrayals. The kind of loon the media play up to.

They suffer a disease of the heart whereby they attribute all and any act of any person of Muslim background to the entire worldwide Muslim community.

They also then fail to realise this is as ludicrous as attributing an act of a Christian in the LRA with Anglo Christians in Australia.

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Big Dave Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2164 Gender:	Re: Penalty for insulting the Prophet (pbuh) Reply #38 - Sep 29^th, 2012 at 2:42am You are the type of nazi who wipes off topics that ridicule your fraud of a religion.
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magpie

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Re: Penalty for insulting the Prophet (pbuh)
Reply #39 - Sep 29^th, 2012 at 6:01am

Big Dave wrote on Sep 29^th, 2012 at 2:42am:

You are the type of nazi who wipes off topics that ridicule your fraud of a religion.

shouldn't discriminate david, all religion is a fraud (especially the jewish one for which a holy day or period is an excuse to eat different kinds of delicious food). if you break a leg, do you pray or go see a doctor?

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freediver

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Re: Penalty for insulting the Prophet (pbuh)
Reply #40 - Sep 29^th, 2012 at 9:11am

Quote:

Is it about offending the prophet (as per the title), or is it about offending Allah? You understand the two are completely different right?

If you say so. Are the punishments different?

Quote:

When non-muslims see muslims behaving badly, it certainly helps to create prejudice against muslims. However that prejudice is greatly enhanced when prejudiced people can reinforce their hatred of muslims by convincing themselves that the bad behaviour is doctrinal - that muslims behaving badly are the rule, not the exception.

Yeah it certainly seems that way doesn't it.

Quote:

Suddenly you get a whole range of misconceptions which prevent coexistence - eg "how can we coexist with muslims when they are commanded to slaughter non-muslims?" Even if muslims are behaving "normally" in a non-muslim community, how can the non-muslims not view the muslims with some degree of suspicion if they hold to such misconceptions? In fact it reminds me of a really good paper by sociologist Michael Humphrey called Culturalising the Abject: Islam, Law and Moral Panic in the West. I'm not sure if its freely available - but basically he explores the notorious gang rape trials of Lebanese muslims in Sydney in the early 2000s. He argues that sections of the media tried to portray the gang rape "culture" as normal and accepted behaviour according to islam. This process no doubt helped enhance the negative perceptions of the Sydney Muslim community.

Long story short, education is needed on both sides.

Quote:

Abu has taught me a lot about Islam. Is has made me more concerned, not less.

"significant portion" is neither here nor there

Quote:

Then where is it?

Quote:

As I said there are a lot of muslims to start with - over 1 billion in fact. As I said, even just 1% being unrully can attract much international attention. The point though is that the disruption this minority can cause gives us little indication of the "good" behaviour of the vast majority of muslims.

They are incapable of keeping the 1% in check. Either the 99% are not so good after all, or not 99%.

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If you really want to get some handle of the context of all this, consider that the largest Muslim population in the world is a thriving democracy, with little disruption from extremists.

It is also at the extremity of the old empire. It works reasonably well there because the locals never 'unlearnt' coexistence like they did elsewhere. However even there they have major problems.

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The world's third largest muslim population coexists peacefully alongside hindus.

Except for the occasional mass slaughter of course, and an endless succession or lesser hate crimes.

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You need to specify what aspects of shariah law you are talking about.

The death penalty for things that in the west are considered fundamental human rights and no business of the government.

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do you know exactly what laws he supports?

Check the wiki.

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There are in fact some very reasonable and "moderate" laws related to family matters

Awesome. There are also laws about which (bare) hand to wipe your arse with. What is your point?

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I have no idea what you mean. I'm not talking about the right or wrong of the Quran - merely what is in the Quran.

Obviously if you say it is in the Koran and you think it is wrong that is very different to saying it is in the Koran and it is Gods direct personal instruction to you. I think it is reasonable to know whether I am discussing this with a Muslim or non-Muslim. It is kind of absurd for a non-Muslim to go around saying it is OK, Muslims are not so bad after all because I have reinterpreted the Koran for them.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Penalty for insulting the Prophet (pbuh)
Reply #41 - Sep 29^th, 2012 at 9:15am

Big Dave wrote on Sep 29^th, 2012 at 2:42am:

You are the type of nazi who wipes off topics that ridicule your fraud of a religion.

Well presumably because he wants this to be a place for constructive debate - which is fair enough. For that to happen you need to be courteous and respectful to one another. Thats not really going to happen if you just set out to cause ridicule.

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« Last Edit: Sep 29^th, 2012 at 9:26am by polite_gandalf »

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Big Dave

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Re: Penalty for insulting the Prophet (pbuh)
Reply #42 - Sep 29^th, 2012 at 9:42am

magpie wrote on Sep 29^th, 2012 at 6:01am:

Big Dave wrote on Sep 29^th, 2012 at 2:42am:

You are the type of nazi who wipes off topics that ridicule your fraud of a religion.

shouldn't discriminate david, all religion is a fraud (especially the jewish one for which a holy day or period is an excuse to eat different kinds of delicious food). if you break a leg, do you pray or go see a doctor?

I don't like religion either Magpie. Where's your Jewish arch nemesis? Your bait is not working.

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Penalty for insulting the Prophet (pbuh) Reply #43 - Sep 29^th, 2012 at 9:43am freediver wrote on Sep 29^th, 2012 at 9:11am: Awesome. There are also laws about which (bare) hand to wipe your arse with. What is your point? Bring a textual reference for this garbage, or your post will be deleted.
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Penalty for insulting the Prophet (pbuh)
Reply #44 - Sep 29^th, 2012 at 12:25pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 28^th, 2012 at 8:37pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 28^th, 2012 at 8:07pm:

The Quran says Muhammad was the first muslim

can you explain 3:67 then?

Quote:

Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah ]. And he was not of the polytheists.

not to mention (once again) 2:132:
Quote:

And Abraham instructed his sons [to do the same] and [so did] Jacob, [saying], "O my sons, indeed Allah has chosen for you this religion, so do not die except while you are Muslims.

To be honest I don't know the full meaning of 39:12, and why it appears to contradict 2:132 and 3:67, but the central point cannot be disputed: 5:32 refers to the 'children of Israel' and the children of Israel are specifically identified as muslims in 2:132 - therefore 5:32 applies to muslims. My God its such a ridiculously simple and obvious point, I simply cannot fathom why you would try and dispute it.

As for the Question in the op, why is there no punishment for insulting Allah that i am aware of yet there are muslims saying chop the heads off those who insult Mohammad?

The Quran says it is clear in 2/185 and other verses, 2/2 says it is without doubt so why cant muslims agree on anything from the niqab to terror if it is clear and without doubt?
http://quran.com/2/185
http://quran.com/2/2

Allah claims Islam has been perfected in sura 5:3, so if Islam has been perrfected as claimed in the Quran why cant muslims agree on the punishment for insulting Mohammad, if they cant agree does this mean Islam is in fact not perfect?
http://quran.com/5/3

As for 3/67 it says Abraham was not a jew or christian he was a muslim, 3/67 makes no mention of children of Israel which is what i want.
3/67 is clear Abraham was a muslim according to Islam.

2/132- makes no mention of jews or children of Israel, it does mention muslim.

Since 5/32 starts with we have decreed upon the children of Israel...... we should look at Quran verses that specifically mention children of Israel.

As Abu has previously pointed out the jews were gods favourite people, past tense as muslims have become gods chosen people.
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Oh children of Israel, remember my favour i bestowed upon you and that i preferred you over the worlds.
http://quran.com/2/47
http://quran.com/2/122

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Cursed are those who disbelieved among the children of Israel by the tongue of david and Jesus, the son of Mary,That is because they disobeyed and habitually transgressed.
http://quran.com/5/78

Quote:

They have certainly disbelieved who say "Allah is the messiah, the son of Mary while the messiah has said O children of Israel worship Allah,my lord and your lord,Indeed he who associates others with Allah-Allah has forbidden him Paradise and his refuge is the fire.
http://quran.com/5/72

Are muslims allowed to enslave muslims or is that haram?
Quote:

And this is the favour of which you remind me, that you have enslaved the children of Israel
http://quran.com/26/22

Quote:

Indeed this Quran relates to the children of Israel most of that over which they disagree.
http://quran.com/27/76

Quote:

And we certainly saved the children of Israel from the humiliating torment
http://quran.com/44/30

Quote:

And we made the torah guidance for the children of Israel
http://quran.com/32/23

So when we look at the many verses that say children of Israel in the Quran they give no indication they are muslims and every indication they refer to the filthy yahud.

5/32 applies to jews and not muslims.

If muslims are the children of Israel as you claim then what are the palestinians whinging about,are they not the children of Israel?

I dont have to explain the contradictions in the Quran, 4/82 explains them.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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