Australian Politics Forum - Islamic terrorism statistics

polite_gandalf

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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #120 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 7:38pm

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 6:42pm:

OK, just to be perfectly clear, you believe that the fact that there are a far larger number of Muslims willing to support Islamic terrorism compared to other terrorist groups does not increase the risk of Islamic terrorism by increasing the capacity of Muslim terrorists to kill large numbers of people?

Just to be clear - no. You take your own premise which I specifically rejected and pass it as my own belief. Try again.

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 6:42pm:

It is a widespread view. I gave you a classic example to demonstrate this

lol just proves my point. It is neither widespread or "classical" - you pulled that out of your arse and have no evidence whatsoever to substantiate it. Thats what I mean by prejudiced.

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 6:42pm:

I am not smearing the entire Muslim community with this. I am smearing the terrorists, their supporters, and the limp wristed apologists.

You say muslim terrorism is unique in that it has widespread support, then quote a fringe muslim leader. You smear muslims by what you leave out - by refusing to acknowledge that the vast majority of muslims demonstrably reject terrorism, and offering only one example of what muslims say (clearly inferring that this is a typical voice), you are smearing the entire muslim community.

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 6:42pm:

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And the actual evidence (of muslims overwhelmingly condemning terrorism) is dismissed as a sinister conspiracy.

Would you mind quoting me? Or are you not accusing me of this?

Cute. The comment about him being the only one who happened to get "busted" is consistent with a long and favourite theme of yours of criticising muslims for making statements ostensibly criticising terrorism - because they are only concerned about the timing or the lack of organisational control or whatever. Clearly its a sinister conspiracy of calculated "condemnation" as part of a PR campaign on one hand, and keeping the muslims organised and prepared for when the real strike comes. You've said all this before FD, don't make me quote you.

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 6:42pm:

but there was no movement within the Islamic world to actually dismantle the institutions responsible for this. Instead, they did everything within their power to get in the way.

Such as?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #121 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 7:49pm

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Just to be clear - no. You take your own premise which I specifically rejected and pass it as my own belief. Try again.

So what premise are you rejecting? That Al Quaida has more supporters than Timothy McVeigh?

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It is neither widespread or "classical" - you pulled that out of your arse and have no evidence whatsoever to substantiate it.

Is English your second language? The British Imam is a classic example of the hypocrisy and deception. Do you know what this means?

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You say muslim terrorism is unique in that it has widespread support

No I don't. I say it has a higher death toll, and is a higher risk, because it has more support.

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then quote a fringe muslim leader

And you respond by citing a 'mainstream' western terrorist like McVeigh, apparently oblivious to what is actually being discussed.

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You smear muslims by what you leave out - by refusing to acknowledge that the vast majority of muslims demonstrably reject terrorism

Ah yes, you always were an expert on things I do not actually say. Please forgive me for not walking on eggshells while discussing Islamic terrorism. Don't go strapping a bomb to your chest or something silly like that.

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and offering only one example of what muslims say (clearly inferring that this is a typical voice)

But not actually saying that?

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Cute. The comment about him being the only one who happened to get "busted" is consistent with a long and favourite theme of yours of criticising muslims for making statements ostensibly criticising terrorism - because they are only concerned about the timing or the lack of organisational control or whatever.

It was also a theme of Abu's. Each Muslim has their own peculiar style of apologetics. They are individuals, you see.

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Clearly its a sinister conspiracy

For the ones involved in terrorism, it is a very sinister conspiracy. The rest just settle for spineless apologetics.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Islamic terrorism statistics Reply #122 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 9:08pm Punjab: clan gang rapes seven year old Christian and kidnaps father to stop him reporting them Religion of Peace.
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Karnal

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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #123 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 9:22pm

Soren wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 9:08pm:

Punjab: clan gang rapes seven year old Christian and kidnaps father to stop him reporting them

Religion of Peace.

No explanation on the US bombing of Panama City, old dear?

I think we can safely say that your thesis on Anglo-Amerikan dominance being somehow in the best interest of the world is utter bollocks. On stilts..

Would you like fries with your faeces? You can upsize for an extra 99 cents.

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austranger

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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #124 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 3:17am

Pakistan, and indeed the entire sub-continent, is a twisted and violent place, with a history of colonial, religious and cultural wars, killings and pogroms, and abuses of women and girls are widespread generally.
The standards of education are abysmal across the board and human rights are so bad they're not even a joke, they're an affront to humanity entire in this 21st century.
Muslim poor generally do not report these events as a rule, but their abuse and terror is as real as the Christian and Hindi minority's is.
Laying the blame at the door of Islam is to ignore the obvious and to be selectively prejudiced, in my opinion anyway.
Islam may possibly have a long way to go to satisfy the more Christian West's ideas about religion but it is far from the barbaric institution so often, and erroneously, portrayed. Christians have no automatic claim to saintliness, in the past or even today, and I can't help but wonder why so many of them, and atheists who profess to a humanitarian morality, are so ready to be so blindly prejudiced against Muslims, it appears to fly in the face of all their so-called ethics.
Surely we don't still blame people merely by association? Yet that is exactly what is happening, I'm sorry to say.

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Any day with a smile in it is a good day

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Soren

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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #125 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 12:10pm

austranger wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 3:17am:

Pakistan, and indeed the entire sub-continent, is a twisted and violent place, with a history of colonial, religious and cultural wars, killings and pogroms, and abuses of women and girls are widespread generally.
The standards of education are abysmal across the board and human rights are so bad they're not even a joke, they're an affront to humanity entire in this 21st century.

....

Surely we don't still blame people merely by association? Yet that is exactly what is happening, I'm sorry to say.

Well, shurely, the people who live there must have some role in making it a "twisted and violent place" and affront to humanity.

But it's easier to excuse them than hold them responsible.

Denmark and England had bloody histories. Yet they are not an affront.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islamic terrorism statistics Reply #126 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 1:11pm Soren wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 12:10pm: Well, shurely, the people who live there must have some role in making it a "twisted and violent place" and affront to humanity. Hate to break it to you S, but most of the sub-continent is non-muslim.
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Karnal

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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #127 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 7:42pm

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 6:42pm:

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Correct - because it doesn't.

OK, just to be perfectly clear, you believe that the fact that there are a far larger number of Muslims willing to support Islamic terrorism compared to other terrorist groups does not increase the risk of Islamic terrorism by increasing the capacity of Muslim terrorists to kill large numbers of people?

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You said that it was widespread and quoted a single muslim in the UK as if he was mainstream.

It is a widespread view. I gave you a classic example to demonstrate this. Are you suggesting that this is only a problem if support for terrorism is 'mainstream' among Muslims?

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I don't know, but it needed to be small so that their cover wouldn't be blown. Probably less than 100.

Including all the donors who did not need to know the strategic details? In fact there could have been a whole host of people involved in pulling it off that did not need to know enough to 'blow their cover'.

Let's take your 100 people for the moment. If we compare with this with the leading contemporary non-Muslim terroist - McVeigh - do you think that the lack of an organisation to provide support for McVeigh and similar people contributed to the difference in death toll between the Oklahom bombing and 9/11?

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This is the ugly face of prejudice. Any reasonable person would expect to see some actual evidence before smearing the muslim community like this.

I am not smearing the entire Muslim community with this. I am smearing the terrorists, their supporters, and the limp wristed apologists. I even suggested some numbers for you: 10? 100? 1000? 10000? Is that all the genuine Muslims left in the world?

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And the actual evidence (of muslims overwhelmingly condemning terrorism) is dismissed as a sinister conspiracy.

Would you mind quoting me? Or are you not accusing me of this?

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3000 total deaths in hundreds of attacks over several decades represents a bigger terrorist threat than a single attack which kills 3000 people in one hit.

Ah total deaths. I still disagree with you. 9/11 highlighted a serious ongoing threat. If we had done nothing, this threat would not have gone away. We would have had more terrorist attacks in which 3000 or far more people died. 9/11 was a PR coup for the Muslim terrorists, precisely because so many Muslims support terrorism. It strengthened them, and if we had danced to the tune of the limp wristed apologists, they would have grown even stronger and launched more or bigger attacks.

That’s right, FD. Invading Afghanistan and Iraq certainly showed Al Qaida who’s boss.

There’s no terrorism in Afghanistan or Iraq anymore. Just look how many deaths we avoided.

Thank heavens for demokracy.

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Sparky

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Re: Islamic terrorism statistics
Reply #128 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 7:45pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 7:42pm: