Australian Politics Forum - Muslim unemployment rates in Australia

salad in

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #135 - Jan 28^th, 2013 at 3:51pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 28^th, 2013 at 3:37pm:

salad in wrote on Jan 28^th, 2013 at 1:28pm:

In order to provide a safe workplace it would be impossible to employ female muslims.

why is that?

As you know all employers must provide a safe working environment. According to muslim folklore if a male spots any hair on a female muslim he becomes a slobbering, lascivious sexual predator who would seek out life's carnal pleasures. That would be an unsafe work environment with the females being hunted down in the staff cafeteria, at the water cooler, or even in the staff car park. Rapes and other sex crimes would be reported daily. The male staff would get about the place with raging erections and we know what that might lead to.

So in the interests of a safe working environment, and a big 'thank you' to the muslim community for the warning, I would not employ any female muslims.

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salad in

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #136 - Jan 28^th, 2013 at 4:01pm

Quote:

And He says in Surat al-Ahzab, ayah 59:
Oh Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their outer garments close around them. That will be better, that they may be known and so not be bothered. And Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful.

From these two ayat of the Noble Qur'an and from the authentic sources of guidance provided for us, we can derive the following principles of proper dress and adornment for Muslim women:

1. The outer garment worn in public must cover all of the body except the face and hands.

Surat an-Noor, ayah 31 (quoted above) contains a clear command that a woman's natural beauty and her adornment are to be concealed from strangers, except that which might show unintentionally (i.e. parts of the dress or ornaments) or which show as a matter of course because it is not prohibited that they be shown (i.e. the face and the hands).

Verily, it is written. Blessings be upon Halla the most high.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #137 - Jan 28^th, 2013 at 4:23pm

salad in wrote on Jan 28^th, 2013 at 3:51pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 28^th, 2013 at 3:37pm:

salad in wrote on Jan 28^th, 2013 at 1:28pm:

In order to provide a safe workplace it would be impossible to employ female muslims.

why is that?

As you know all employers must provide a safe working environment. According to muslim folklore if a male spots any hair on a female muslim he becomes a slobbering, lascivious sexual predator who would seek out life's carnal pleasures. That would be an unsafe work environment with the females being hunted down in the staff cafeteria, at the water cooler, or even in the staff car park. Rapes and other sex crimes would be reported daily. The male staff would get about the place with raging erections and we know what that might lead to.

So in the interests of a safe working environment, and a big 'thank you' to the muslim community for the warning, I would not employ any female muslims.

Why? Female muslims arent likely to show any hair. Its the males you shouldn't employ from your example.

SOB

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #138 - Jan 28^th, 2013 at 4:44pm

salad in wrote on Jan 28^th, 2013 at 3:51pm:

As you know all employers must provide a safe working environment. According to muslim folklore if a male spots any hair on a female muslim he becomes a slobbering, lascivious sexual predator who would seek out life's carnal pleasures. That would be an unsafe work environment with the females being hunted down in the staff cafeteria, at the water cooler, or even in the staff car park. Rapes and other sex crimes would be reported daily. The male staff would get about the place with raging erections and we know what that might lead to.

Well you obviously don't believe that, so why would that deter you from hiring muslimas?

Also the Australian workforce is literally full of muslimas who don't even wear headscarfs - and incidentally, is also full of muslimas who do wear headscarfs, but don't cause the problems you describe.

So it leads me to only one conclusion, your decision would be based on nothing other than good ol' fashioned prejudice.

salad in wrote on Jan 28^th, 2013 at 4:01pm:

Verily, it is written. Blessings be upon Halla the most high.

Whoever made that commentary on the ayat you quoted, is arrogantly making a false conclusion of the intent of the ayat IMO. Notice the word is "adornments" - nowhere is the word "hair" specifically mentioned. It should be fairly obvious that the issue is modesty in general, and common sense dictates what that involves.

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« Last Edit: Jan 28^th, 2013 at 4:49pm by polite_gandalf »

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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salad in

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #139 - Jan 29^th, 2013 at 6:25pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 28^th, 2013 at 4:44pm:

salad in wrote on Jan 28^th, 2013 at 3:51pm:

As you know all employers must provide a safe working environment. According to muslim folklore if a male spots any hair on a female muslim he becomes a slobbering, lascivious sexual predator who would seek out life's carnal pleasures. That would be an unsafe work environment with the females being hunted down in the staff cafeteria, at the water cooler, or even in the staff car park. Rapes and other sex crimes would be reported daily. The male staff would get about the place with raging erections and we know what that might lead to.

Well you obviously don't believe that, so why would that deter you from hiring muslimas?

Also the Australian workforce is literally full of muslimas who don't even wear headscarfs - and incidentally, is also full of muslimas who do wear headscarfs, but don't cause the problems you describe.

So it leads me to only one conclusion, your decision would be based on nothing other than good ol' fashioned prejudice.

salad in wrote on Jan 28^th, 2013 at 4:01pm:

Verily, it is written. Blessings be upon Halla the most high.

Whoever made that commentary on the ayat you quoted, is arrogantly making a false conclusion of the intent of the ayat IMO. Notice the word is "adornments" - nowhere is the word "hair" specifically mentioned. It should be fairly obvious that the issue is modesty in general, and common sense dictates what that involves.

I can't answer for other employers.

Quote:

Whoever made that commentary on the ayat you quoted, is arrogantly making a false conclusion of the intent of the ayat IMO. Notice the word is "adornments" - nowhere is the word "hair" specifically mentioned. It should be fairly obvious that the issue is modesty in general, and common sense dictates what that involves.

Do I have to remind you that the qur'an is not open to interpretation. The qur'an is the immutable word of allah so the words mean what they say.

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salad in

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #140 - Jan 30^th, 2013 at 3:51pm

Thank you Saladin for your timely reminder. I might add this:-

Quote:

Since laws governing transactions between men are directly linked to their beliefs, such a book can obviously not be annulled or changed with the passage of time. As He says in XVII:105, "We have revealed the Qur'an with Truth and it has descended with the Truth," meaning that the revelations and their ongoing validity are inseparable from the Truth.

Thus in X:32, "After the Truth what is there except error, " and in XLI:41-42, "In truth it is an unpenetrable book, error may not enter in it from before it or behind it. "

In other words the Qur'an repulses, by its own perfection and completeness, any attempt to alter it; and neither now nor later can it be annulled or superseded. Many studies have been made of the permanence of the validity of the laws given in the Qur'an.

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salad in Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5941	Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia Reply #141 - Jan 30^th, 2013 at 4:07pm Thanks again Saladin. Here, muslims are left in no doubt about what is written: Quote: 2.2 This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #142 - Jan 30^th, 2013 at 9:05pm

salad in wrote on Jan 29^th, 2013 at 6:25pm:

Do I have to remind you that the qur'an is not open to interpretation. The qur'an is the immutable word of allah so the words mean what they say.

not open to interpretation? - hmmm and here you are quoting from an English interpretation of the original arabic. Actually, its even worse than that - you're quoting a guy who is making an interpretion of the English interpretation of the original arabic. Cheesy

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #143 - Jan 31^st, 2013 at 3:23pm

salad in wrote on Jan 30^th, 2013 at 4:07pm:

Thanks again Saladin. Here, muslims are left in no doubt about what is written:

Quote:

2.2

This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -

When Allah revealed this verse there was no book,The Quran was made into a book about 23 years after Mohammad died.

Muslims claim the quran has divine origins yet it was the caliph Uthman who decided what verses would go into the quran and which verses would be left out 23 years after Mohammad died.
Gandalf- who gave Uthman authority to edit the quran which muslims incorrectly claim has never been altered?

Falah has pointed out muslims cannot pick and choose what parts of the quran to believe in this is where Islam differs from christianity,Allah even mentions this in sura 2/85.
Quote:

Allah speaking listen up gullible fools-

So do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part?
No virgins for you off to the hellfire.
www.quran.com/2/85

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #144 - Jan 31^st, 2013 at 3:43pm

please get your facts straight Baron:

Quote:

Uthman is perhaps best known for forming the committee which produced multiple copies of the text of the Qur'an as it exists today. The reason was that various Muslim centres, like Kufa and Damascus, had begun to develop their own traditions for reciting the Qur'an and writing it down with stylistic differences.
This copy of the Qur'an is believed to be one of the oldest, compiled during Caliph Uthman's reign.

During the time of Uthman, by which time Islam had spread far and wide, differences in reading the Quran in different dialects of Arabic language became obvious. A group of companions, headed by Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman, who was then stationed in Iraq, came to Uthman and urged him to "save the Muslim ummah before they differ about the Quran" . Uthman obtained the complete manuscript of the Qur'an from Hafsah, one of the wives of the Islamic prophet Muhammad who had been entrusted to keep the manuscript ever since the Qur'an was comprehensively compiled by the first Caliph, Abu Bakr . Uthman then again summoned the leading compiling authority, Zayd ibn Thabit, and some other companions to make copies of the manuscript. Zayd was put in charge of the task. The style of Arabic dialect used was that of the Quraysh tribe to which the Prophet Muhammad belonged. Hence this style was emphasized over all others.

Zayd and his assistants produced several copies of the manuscript of the Qur'an. One of each was sent to every Muslim province with the order that all other Quranic materials, whether fragmentary or complete copies, be destroyed. As such, when the standard copies were made widely available to the Muslim community everywhere, then all other material was burnt voluntarily by the Muslim community themselves. The annihilation of these extra-Qur'anic documents remained essential in order to eradicate scriptural incongruities, contradictions of consequence or differences in the dialect from the customary text of the Qur'an. The Caliph Uthman kept a copy for himself and returned the original manuscript to Hafsah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uthman_ibn_Affan#Qur.27an

Uthman didn't pick and choose which verses would be included and which would be left out - he went back to the source - the original manuscript compiled by the first caliph, and kept safe by the prophet's widow. He then ordered copies of that original manuscript to be made and become the official standard version - and any versions that differed from the original to be destroyed.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48834 At my desk.	Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia Reply #145 - Jan 31^st, 2013 at 3:46pm So the first great Islamic scholar was also a book burner?
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Adamant

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #146 - Mar 2^nd, 2013 at 7:36am

[quoteUthman didn't pick and choose which verses would be included and which would be left out - he went back to the source - the original manuscript compiled by the first caliph, and kept safe by the prophet's widow. He then ordered copies of that original manuscript to be made and become the official standard version - and any versions that differed from the original to be destroyed. ] [/quote]

He did pick what he wanted the original manual of hatred differs from today's version. Check out an earlier version here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sana'a_manuscript. Also peoples opinions were sought on what Mo man said so the quran cannot be the true word of god can it Gandalf.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #147 - Mar 2^nd, 2013 at 8:13am

Adamant wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2013 at 7:36am:

He did pick what he wanted the original manual of hatred differs from today's version. Check out an earlier version here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sana'a_manuscript.

There is no evidence that the Sana manuscript is the original if that's what you are implying. In fact its almost certainly one of those unauthentic "copies" that Uthman ordered to be destroyed. As one guy in the wiki article stated:

Quote:

Lester admits that so far the manuscripts show some unconventional verse orderings, minor textual variations, and rare styles of orthography and artistic embellishment. However, the past existence of such manuscripts is well known to Muslims and those that did not completely agree with the Uthmanic text were eliminated in various ways. The recovery of an ancient manuscript dating back to the earliest history of Islam that differs in minor ways from the Uthmanic text and that was eliminated from circulation will hardly cause Muslims to feel the need to rewrite their history; if anything, it will only confirm it for them

Adamant wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2013 at 7:36am:

Also peoples opinions were sought on what Mo man said so the quran cannot be the true word of god can it Gandalf.

please provide evidence. Are you confusing the quran with the hadith?

The quran was recorded by scribes as it was revealed by the prophet. These manuscripts were stored safely in the prophets house, and after his death it was held by his widow. Evidently, over the years many copies were circulated that were not true to the original. So when Uthman came to power, he ordered the creation of the "official" version copied directly from the original manuscripts. All other versions were ordered to be destroyed. My guess is that this sanna version slipped through the cracks.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Adamant

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #148 - Mar 2^nd, 2013 at 11:25am

The faded writing on the parchment is the oldest. The newest is the little black book you use today. Unless your Mo man was not the first prophet of Islam I suggest the little black book you hold so dear and are told is from god actually is a fake.

“Perhaps the action which caused the most controversy for Uthman during his reign, however, was his attempt to develop a definitive text of the Qur'an at the expense of all others. His aim was simply to establish one true text of the revelation, in order for all Muslims to know of what the Qur'an consisted, what order it should be in, and how it should be written. Despite the controversy, Uthman was able to complete this task, which has since been recognised as a significant achievement in Islamic history. He reduced the number and frequency of disagreements over dogma, but many devout believers at the time accused Uthman of tampering with the sacred book. In 656, crowds protested his compilation of the new Qu'ran outside his home. Uthman refused help from his old friends, and the siege ended when protesters broke into his house, and assassinated Uthman”

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Uthman_Affan.html

No I do not mean Hadith

Abdullah ibn Sa`d Ibn Abi Sarh Is the poor chappie your on about I believe Mo man sure knew how to look after smarter people than himself did he not.
During Muhammad's 23 years of prophetic ministry, Muhammad claimed to receive revelations from God, given to him by an angel. Muhammad used many men, functioning as scribes, to write down these assumed revelations. Different scribes wrote down different revelations. `Abdullah Sarh was one of Muhammad's scribes. Evidently, Sarh had some literary skills, sometimes suggesting improvements to Muhammad in the wording of the recited Qur'an. Muhammad often agreed with Sarh's improvements, and allowed the changes to be made.
Sarh eventually left Islam because he knew that no mere scribe should be allowed to change something that was proclaimed to be the word of God. The changes were frequent enough that it caused Sarh to realize that something was amiss. Upon leaving Islam, Sarh became a threat to the credibility of the Qur'an. It would no longer be believed to be the word of God if a man had been allowed to edit and change it. Sarh's threat to the credibility of the Qur'an was also a threat to Muhammad's credibility. No real prophet would allow the word of God to be changed.
Sarh left Islam and lived in Mecca. Sometime later, Muhammad and his army moved on Mecca and took it without a fight. On that day, Muhammad ordered the murder of 10 people living in Mecca. Muhammad said "God forbid killing in Mecca, except for this one day." Sarh was one of the people Muhammad ordered to be murdered. His crime? He had left Islam, and he constituted a threat to the credibility of the Qur'an and the prophethood of Muhammad. No wonder then that Muhammad wanted him dead.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Sources/sarh.html

Got any tips for the Quady in Melbourne as I could use a bit of divine (man made) intervention.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48834 At my desk.	Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia Reply #149 - Mar 2^nd, 2013 at 12:46pm Quote: and the siege ended when protesters broke into his house, and assassinated Uthman Ironic.
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