Australian Politics Forum - Muslim unemployment rates in Australia

polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #15 - Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:31pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

Muslims are not a race of people, muslims come from every race including white people.

thats not the point. The mechanisms behind prejudice and racism are well known, and they don't just exist between groups we might term as different "races" in the traditional sense. They also exist between different ethnics and different religions (for example).

[Muslims are unable to counter critics so they claim racism to shut down any debates on Islam. [/quote]

That is sadly partly true - if we were honest about it. However it also can't be denied that real prejudice against muslims exists.Big Dave wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 4:06pm:

Coming home from work on a friday (which is about 1.30pm) my brother and I always say this same thing when we pass our local mosque- It's packed, they must not work.

Its called a lunch break. The Friday khutbah generally lasts between 1pm and 2pm, which is perfectly reasonable for someone on their lunch break.

And adamant, can we stay on topic please? This is supposed to be about muslim unemployment, not an excuse to start hurling any random vitriol at muslims.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #16 - Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:41pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:32pm:

That is sadly partly true - if we were honest about it. However it also can't be denied that real prejudice against muslims exists.

Absolutely, but if were honest about it, it can't be denied that real prejudice exists against everyone, and by everyone.

Muslims, christians, jews, white people, black people, yellow people, redheads, blondes, brunettes, men, women, long haired, short haired, thong wearers, sandal wearers, high heel wearers - we're even prejudiced by where we see them, the context of it as well as what we see. Preconceptions about people, objects, animals, situations cannot be avoided - for the most part it's not even under the control of the conscious mind.

So what's the problem?

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In the fullness of time...

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Big Dave Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2164 Gender:	Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia Reply #17 - Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:45pm If prejudice is a reason for high unemployment then why is the workforce full of lots of other migrant groups like Asians for instance? Most migrant groups have come to Australia and prospered.
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Adamant

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #18 - Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:58pm

Big Dave wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:45pm:

If prejudice is a reason for high unemployment then why is the workforce full of lots of other migrant groups like Asians for instance? Most migrant groups have come to Australia and prospered.

You have in reality answered your own question.

They, people of other religious beliefs want to work.

Muslims, in general do not!

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In real life Gandalf is known as Mr 10%

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abu_rashid

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #19 - Oct 16^th, 2012 at 10:41pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 12:14pm:

The UN made a mistake in claiming muslims suffer from racial discrimination, since when did muslims become a race?

Where does it say Muslims suffer from racial discrimination?

Besides, as far as most ignorant rednecks who discriminate against Muslims are concerned, Islam is a country and Muslims are the race of people from there.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 12:14pm:

As for immigrants from the same country with differing religions we could look at the muslim and maronite christian Lebanese to see which one integrates better,Sheikh Hilaly represents the sunni Lebanese and we know all about the strife they have been in.

So where's the stats?

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 12:14pm:

As for boat people refugees the government has already done a study on refugees and employment,83.5% of them are still on centrelink up to 5 years after arriving in Australia for some reason they did not mention how many are on the pension(page 20)

So it's more related to them being refugees than it is to them being Muslims you mean?

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #20 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 5:32am

... wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 12:19pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 4:57am:

Its pretty obvious why. Because employers are victims of the media fear campaign and are being prejudice.

SOB

Ah of course. It's obviously solely due to discrimination. Isn't it always?

Mainly not ALL .. . . . did you see the other threads with ppl saying "i wouldn't employ a muslim" crapola? Its not so much muslims though because they arent allowed to ask your religion. Its anybody that looks anything like the stereotype is going to have trouble getting work.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #21 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 5:41am

... wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:41pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:32pm:

That is sadly partly true - if we were honest about it. However it also can't be denied that real prejudice against muslims exists.

Absolutely, but if were honest about it, it can't be denied that real prejudice exists against everyone, and by everyone.

Muslims, christians, jews, white people, black people, yellow people, redheads, blondes, brunettes, men, women, long haired, short haired, thong wearers, sandal wearers, high heel wearers - we're even prejudiced by where we see them, the context of it as well as what we see. Preconceptions about people, objects, animals, situations cannot be avoided - for the most part it's not even under the control of the conscious mind.

So what's the problem?

Its always the most judgemental and prejudiced ppl that say this because they cant imagine anyone else NOT being like they are. Prejudice is learned. Children are not prejudiced until they are taught to be by their parents etc. Some arent taught and so arent prejudice and they dont understand the kind of ppl that think everyone is because they are.

SOB

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #22 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 6:36am

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 10:41pm:

Baronvonrort wrote Yesterday at 12:14pm:
As for immigrants from the same country with differing religions we could look at the muslim and maronite christian Lebanese to see which one integrates better,Sheikh Hilaly represents the sunni Lebanese and we know all about the strife they have been in.

So where's the stats?

Depends on how you want to define integrate, but if it means unemployment and/or lower household income, then the difference between the Lebanese Christians and Lebanese Muslims is stark, and well documented.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Big Dave

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #23 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 8:40am

There's 2 reasons why people are unemployed in australia- 1 you don't wanna OR 2- you are unemployable.

Muslim women are mostly not allowed to work. Her sole duties include having kids and serving her family. That explains their high unemployment rate.

Muslim men on the other hand have such issues as not being about to speak english and poor education. Plus the bad attitudes towards being part of Australian society.

The religion must get in the way of working also. When you have religious meetings that fall during the week it must affect their ability to hold a 9 to 5 job. There's a tonne of issues.
The prejudice argument is just rubbish.

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Soren

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #24 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 9:21am

Big Dave wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:45pm:

If prejudice is a reason for high unemployment then why is the workforce full of lots of other migrant groups like Asians for instance? Most migrant groups have come to Australia and prospered.

Getting and holding down a job is as good a sign of integration as any, especially when unemployment is around 5%.

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Quantum

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #25 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 10:02am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 5:41am:

... wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:41pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:32pm:

That is sadly partly true - if we were honest about it. However it also can't be denied that real prejudice against muslims exists.

Absolutely, but if were honest about it, it can't be denied that real prejudice exists against everyone, and by everyone.

Muslims, christians, jews, white people, black people, yellow people, redheads, blondes, brunettes, men, women, long haired, short haired, thong wearers, sandal wearers, high heel wearers - we're even prejudiced by where we see them, the context of it as well as what we see. Preconceptions about people, objects, animals, situations cannot be avoided - for the most part it's not even under the control of the conscious mind.

So what's the problem?

Its always the most judgemental and prejudiced ppl that say this because they cant imagine anyone else NOT being like they are. Prejudice is learned. Children are not prejudiced until they are taught to be by their parents etc. Some arent taught and so arent prejudice and they dont understand the kind of ppl that think everyone is because they are.

SOB

So you're not prejudice against anyone?

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #26 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 10:05am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 5:41am:

... wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:41pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:32pm:

That is sadly partly true - if we were honest about it. However it also can't be denied that real prejudice against muslims exists.

Absolutely, but if were honest about it, it can't be denied that real prejudice exists against everyone, and by everyone.

Muslims, christians, jews, white people, black people, yellow people, redheads, blondes, brunettes, men, women, long haired, short haired, thong wearers, sandal wearers, high heel wearers - we're even prejudiced by where we see them, the context of it as well as what we see. Preconceptions about people, objects, animals, situations cannot be avoided - for the most part it's not even under the control of the conscious mind.

So what's the problem?

Its always the most judgemental and prejudiced ppl that say this because they cant imagine anyone else NOT being like they are. Prejudice is learned. Children are not prejudiced until they are taught to be by their parents etc. Some arent taught and so arent prejudice and they dont understand the kind of ppl that think everyone is because they are.

SOB

Of course prejudices are learned. It's impossible - not just difficult - IMPOSSIBLE not to learn it. It's not so much taught, it is a 'shortcut' that enables the human brain to assess situations faster than any supercomputer. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong - I assumed you had one. Working to "stamp out prejudice" is as stupid and futile as working to stamp out heartbeats, or respiration.

I think your assessment that "Its always the most judgemental and prejudiced ppl that say this" has some merit, but is a little off base. It's always the people who actually think - not groupthink - who appear the most judgemental and prejudiced. Understanding biology and related fields doesn't make someone any more "prejudiced and judgemental" anymore than a lack of understanding of thes fields makes someon "compassionate" or "tolerant". It just makes them more able to understand the inherent qualities and limitataions of human beings, and therefore embraces the truth, rather than regurgiatating vapid, untruthful slogans to ingratiate themself to the herd.

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In the fullness of time...

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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia Reply #27 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 10:40am Prejudices are inevitable, discriminating against people based on them is not.
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #28 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 10:50am

... wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 10:05am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 5:41am:

... wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:41pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 16^th, 2012 at 7:32pm:

That is sadly partly true - if we were honest about it. However it also can't be denied that real prejudice against muslims exists.

Absolutely, but if were honest about it, it can't be denied that real prejudice exists against everyone, and by everyone.

Muslims, christians, jews, white people, black people, yellow people, redheads, blondes, brunettes, men, women, long haired, short haired, thong wearers, sandal wearers, high heel wearers - we're even prejudiced by where we see them, the context of it as well as what we see. Preconceptions about people, objects, animals, situations cannot be avoided - for the most part it's not even under the control of the conscious mind.

So what's the problem?

Its always the most judgemental and prejudiced ppl that say this because they cant imagine anyone else NOT being like they are. Prejudice is learned. Children are not prejudiced until they are taught to be by their parents etc. Some arent taught and so arent prejudice and they dont understand the kind of ppl that think everyone is because they are.

SOB

Of course prejudices are learned. It's impossible - not just difficult - IMPOSSIBLE not to learn it. It's not so much taught, it is a 'shortcut' that enables the human brain to assess situations faster than any supercomputer. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong - I assumed you had one. Working to "stamp out prejudice" is as stupid and futile as working to stamp out heartbeats, or respiration.

I think your assessment that "Its always the most judgemental and prejudiced ppl that say this" has some merit, but is a little off base. It's always the people who actually think - not groupthink - who appear the most judgemental and prejudiced. Understanding biology and related fields doesn't make someone any more "prejudiced and judgemental" anymore than a lack of understanding of thes fields makes someon "compassionate" or "tolerant". It just makes them more able to understand the inherent qualities and limitataions of human beings, and therefore embraces the truth, rather than regurgiatating vapid, untruthful slogans to ingratiate themself to the herd.

Yeah that makes sense. Thing is that different ppl judge on different attributes. Theres the ppl that judge on dress (which gets outdated fast) and theres the ppl that judge on color (we know those ones) and theres the ones that judge on what those ppl do or say.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Muslim unemployment rates in Australia
Reply #29 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 10:54am

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 10:40am:

Prejudices are inevitable, discriminating against people based on them is not.

Yeah that is a point too. IMO it depends what you are basing those prejudices on. If its from their past (resume) or how they look or what you think they believe . . . .

I used to hire about 60 ppl a day in Darwin for labouring jobs. I mostly took the aboriginals first because I knew they would work the entire day and not complain. The tourists were last because they were the ones that didnt really want to work and were always whining. Usually german tourists came looking for work because the beer costs more than they thought it would and they just wanted a few more dollars and they invariably used to disappear into the pub @ lunchtime.

i have no idea whatsoever whether i ever hired a muslim. I never asked anyone their religion and nobody ever told me their religion.

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