Australian Politics Forum - Evidence of Evolution being a hoax

Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #60 - Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:50pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

Soren makes a fair point. The natural sciences can only explain, not idealise.

Which is exactly what its not meant to do.
Its like complaining a car can't fly like an aeroplane.

What is idealism then? How do we explain it?

That's subjective isn't it.
Evolution is not.

If evolution is an all-encompassing objective theory of life it should, then, be able to explain idealism.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #61 - Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:59pm

... wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:41pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

Soren makes a fair point. The natural sciences can only explain, not idealise.

Which is exactly what its not meant to do.
Its like complaining a car can't fly like an aeroplane.

What is idealism then? How do we explain it?

Ideals are just ways in which our minds are 'tricked' into acting out the imperative of the genes. Name me a commonly held ideal, and it can be traced back to a darwinian principle.

All ideals can be traced back to attempts to pro-create? And ideals are just ways to 'get laid'? I agree to a certain extent, but some emotions that that lead to ideals may not be for sex. Becoming religious on one's deathbed probably has little to do with sex.

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bobbythefap1

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #62 - Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:01pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:50pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

Soren makes a fair point. The natural sciences can only explain, not idealise.

Which is exactly what its not meant to do.
Its like complaining a car can't fly like an aeroplane.

What is idealism then? How do we explain it?

That's subjective isn't it.
Evolution is not.

If evolution is an all-encompassing objective theory of life it should, then, be able to explain idealism.

Evolution is about the adaption of life, nothing more.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #63 - Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:04pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:01pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:50pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

Soren makes a fair point. The natural sciences can only explain, not idealise.

Which is exactly what its not meant to do.
Its like complaining a car can't fly like an aeroplane.

What is idealism then? How do we explain it?

That's subjective isn't it.
Evolution is not.

If evolution is an all-encompassing objective theory of life it should, then, be able to explain idealism.

Evolution is about the adaption of life, nothing more.

So it's inadequate then?
Btw, who creates the criteria of what is to be adapted to?

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bobbythefap1

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #64 - Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:05pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:04pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:01pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:50pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

Soren makes a fair point. The natural sciences can only explain, not idealise.

Which is exactly what its not meant to do.
Its like complaining a car can't fly like an aeroplane.

What is idealism then? How do we explain it?

That's subjective isn't it.
Evolution is not.

If evolution is an all-encompassing objective theory of life it should, then, be able to explain idealism.

Evolution is about the adaption of life, nothing more.

So it's inadequate then?
Btw, who creates the criteria of what is to be adapted to?

The bible is inadequate if I expect it to do something its not mean to, whats your point?
The organism does.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #65 - Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:11pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:05pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:04pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:01pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:50pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

Soren makes a fair point. The natural sciences can only explain, not idealise.

Which is exactly what its not meant to do.
Its like complaining a car can't fly like an aeroplane.

What is idealism then? How do we explain it?

That's subjective isn't it.
Evolution is not.

If evolution is an all-encompassing objective theory of life it should, then, be able to explain idealism.

Evolution is about the adaption of life, nothing more.

So it's inadequate then?
Btw, who creates the criteria of what is to be adapted to?

The bible is inadequate if I expect it to do something its not mean to, whats your point?
The organism does.

The point is, that for a better explanation of man we need to slightly reform Darwin.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #66 - Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:14pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:11pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:05pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:04pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:01pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:50pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

Soren makes a fair point. The natural sciences can only explain, not idealise.

Which is exactly what its not meant to do.
Its like complaining a car can't fly like an aeroplane.

What is idealism then? How do we explain it?

That's subjective isn't it.
Evolution is not.

If evolution is an all-encompassing objective theory of life it should, then, be able to explain idealism.

Evolution is about the adaption of life, nothing more.

So it's inadequate then?
Btw, who creates the criteria of what is to be adapted to?

The bible is inadequate if I expect it to do something its not mean to, whats your point?
The organism does.

The point is, that for a better explanation of man we need to slightly reform Darwin.

1) darwin only invented the theory which has "evolved" to a science since then
2) Evolution doesnt need to be "Reformed"
3) Invisible beings in the sky didnt do it

SOB

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...

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #67 - Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:14pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:59pm:

... wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:41pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

Soren makes a fair point. The natural sciences can only explain, not idealise.

Which is exactly what its not meant to do.
Its like complaining a car can't fly like an aeroplane.

What is idealism then? How do we explain it?

Ideals are just ways in which our minds are 'tricked' into acting out the imperative of the genes. Name me a commonly held ideal, and it can be traced back to a darwinian principle.

All ideals can be traced back to attempts to pro-create? And ideals are just ways to 'get laid'? I agree to a certain extent, but some emotions that that lead to ideals may not be for sex. Becoming religious on one's deathbed probably has little to do with sex.

Not necessarily the pursuit of sex. There's more to it than just doing the deed - the survival of the offspring, and the offsprings ofspring, also needs to be ensured.

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In the fullness of time...

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #68 - Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:41pm

... wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:59pm:

... wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:41pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

Soren makes a fair point. The natural sciences can only explain, not idealise.

Which is exactly what its not meant to do.
Its like complaining a car can't fly like an aeroplane.

What is idealism then? How do we explain it?

Ideals are just ways in which our minds are 'tricked' into acting out the imperative of the genes. Name me a commonly held ideal, and it can be traced back to a darwinian principle.

All ideals can be traced back to attempts to pro-create? And ideals are just ways to 'get laid'? I agree to a certain extent, but some emotions that that lead to ideals may not be for sex. Becoming religious on one's deathbed probably has little to do with sex.

Not necessarily the pursuit of sex. There's more to it than just doing the deed - the survival of the offspring, and the offsprings ofspring, also needs to be ensured.

Yeah, I agree with that. There's just some things that don't seem to fit into the paradigm.

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...

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #69 - Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:49pm

It does get convoluted, that's for sure. Some books that can help get your head around it. I'm not even gonna try to explain what they take several hundred pages to say.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Moral-Animal-Evolutionary-Psychology/dp/0679763996

http://www.amazon.com/The-Blank-Slate-Modern-Denial/dp/0670031518

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Bertram

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #70 - Oct 26^th, 2012 at 5:53pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 1:01pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:50pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 11:58am:

Soren makes a fair point. The natural sciences can only explain, not idealise.

Which is exactly what its not meant to do.
Its like complaining a car can't fly like an aeroplane.

What is idealism then? How do we explain it?

That's subjective isn't it.
Evolution is not.

If evolution is an all-encompassing objective theory of life it should, then, be able to explain idealism.

Evolution is about the adaption of life, nothing more.

which is, of course, an idea.

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muso

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #71 - Oct 26^th, 2012 at 7:40pm

Yadda wrote on Oct 25^th, 2012 at 11:06pm:

I'm not big on Latin names, but i will concede that yes, people will view the evidence that is presented re the claims for creation or for evolution, .....depending on the particular 'perspective' [i.e. the bias] that they are viewing that evidence from.

It comes down to close observation of fine detail on the insects. Clearly those claiming that they are identical would probably find the attached picture to be an anatomically correct picture of a butterfly (especially if they had biblical evidence. However, an etymologist would look at the same picture and see that they lack the basic features that identify the insects as living butterflies,

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Yadda

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #72 - Oct 26^th, 2012 at 8:13pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

What is idealism .....then? How do we explain it?

That's subjective, isn't it.

Evolution is not.

No, evolution is not subjective.

Evolution is savagery, it is a form of lawlessness.

Evolution is ably expressed by the phrase; "Survival of the fittest." [.....in other words, promoting evolution [as a process in man] is promoting or endorsing lawlessness, imo].

Evolution is another 'expression' of savagery, .....and it is r-'evolution'.

This, is the spirit of 'evolution', expressed;

"Right is only in question between equals, and while the strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must."

Thucydides (460-400 B.C.) Greek Historian

It is 'the way of man'.

i.e.
It is the spirit of;

'We can do whatever we like, because we have the power to do as we wish.'

On the other hand, idealism, means having a commitment to order and reasoning.

Idealism also means a commitment to governance [laws], to maintain a state of order, so as to avoid savagery and confusion,

This is the way of civility [culture];

Matthew 7:12
.....all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

This is 'idealism'.

+++

God is in charge.

This parable is a warning, it says;
Don't come into God presence dressed in 'lawlessness'.

Matthew 22:11
And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Frankly, i do not want to live in this world, any longer than is necessary.

I have made my choice, i want to live in the light, and not in the darkness, where there is chaos and disorder.

God is clever.

Men are dumb.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #73 - Oct 26^th, 2012 at 8:24pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

What is idealism .....then? How do we explain it?

That's subjective, isn't it.

Evolution is not.

Evolution is the bondage of the flesh.

Idealism, is seeking the spirit.

Do you want to live in the world ?

Live in the world !

And go the way of all flesh !!

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 8:23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #74 - Oct 26^th, 2012 at 9:12pm

Yadda wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 8:24pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 26^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

What is idealism .....then? How do we explain it?

That's subjective, isn't it.

Evolution is not.

Evolution is the bondage of the flesh.

Idealism, is seeking the spirit.

Do you want to live in the world ?

Live in the world !

And go the way of all flesh !!

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 8:23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

I don't believe there is a separation between the flesh (materialism) and spirit (idealism). They both work in a strange unison, constantly feeding off each other. The material is understood through the mind (idealised) and vice versa, the ideal needs the material for there to be idealism.
Not sure if that makes sense.

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