Australian Politics Forum - Evidence of Evolution being a hoax

Emma

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #210 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 9:20pm

For your edification and education....

AN OLDIE BUT A GOODEE !!

Comparative Religion

TAOISM                -       Shite happens
PROTESTANTISM    -       Let shite happen to someone else
CATHOLICISM       -       If shite happens, you deserve it
JUDAISM                -       Why does shite always happen to us?
ATHEISM                -       No shite!
TV EVANGELISM    -       Send more shite
BUDDHISM             -       If shite happens it is not really shite
ZEN BUDDHISM    -       What is the sound of shite happening?
HINDUISM             -       This shite happened before

AND
as it was not included.... my own addition

ISLAMISM - Everyone else is shite

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Soren

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #211 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 9:22pm

muso wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 5:32pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 1:22pm:

muso wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 9:17pm:

Same environment? Well no - for one thing, homo ergaster left Africa for a more temperate climate. So the ancestors of modern man left the other hominids in Africa and were later caught up in a series of glaciations. During the transition from homo ergaster to homo erectus to archaic homo sapiens, average cranial capacities increased.

Oh really??

I may be mistaken - I am not a boffin, after all - but I recall a nature documentary (Attenborough?) where they said that there are humans in Africa whose ancestors never left Africa. There are apparently millions and millions of them - very black skin, black curly hair, flat nose. They could speak to each other, had huts, fire and chiefs and kingdoms and some of them even learned English. It was unbelievable. Has anyone else heard about such people or am I misremembering something?

Or was it a hoax? I am suspecting a hoax, from what you are saying about brains developing in cold climates and glaciation and so forth.

First of all, do you really think that Africans developed in isolation? We are , after all the same species. Do you think somehow that over such a vast period there were groups which were in complete isolation?

I've posted this link before, but here is the story of the journey of mankind based on DNA evidence:

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/

The issue was - why only human developed so spectacularly differently from all other species, including apes. They did share their environment - Africa - with apes from 4 million years ago - when proto-humans separated from apes, according to an earlier post - until 160,000 years ago when they started to migrate out of Africa.

So the 'journey of mankind in the last 160,000 years is not the question. The question is: why only us?

As for Neanderthals and Denisovas - where did they develop? Proto-neanderthals were found, apparently, in Europe dating back a quarter to half a million years.

Anyway, my main point is that we are so spectacularly different from even our closest relatives that the comparatively short time span of 4 million years doesn't seem sufficient for such an extraordinary evolutionary change to take place, considering that many species have changed very little in even longer time spans.

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Yadda

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #212 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 9:22pm

Emma wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 8:55pm:

GROAN!!

Yadda, I understand you live in a religious world, ...but I don't, and nor do I suspect many others on this forum.

As this thread is ..- ATHEISM,

I personally would really appreciate it if you stopped dragging religion, with attendant 'quotes' , into discussions on this thread.

As ever, any subject you contribute to has you , rabbiting on.... it's really getting tired, you know.?

Yawn..... Huh

Emma,

This board is dedicated to exploring atheism [and, related issues].

How can you explore atheism, if you are not prepared to examine 'counter arguments' that may be made ?

Or are you interested, in errr, 'debating', in an open public forum, only, with people who share your own positions and opinions ?

Surely the opinions of a person such as myself, gives your 'position' meaning and 'definition', and depth ?i

+++

Emma,

The point being, is that i look at this world though the 'lens' of how God's word [the Bible] inspires and informs me.

To say, to express my opinion and to express my views, without frequent reference to 'those thoughts' that are expressed in that source, is inconceivable to me.

It is a flaw, in my character. Tongue

As difficult as it may be for an atheist [such as yourself] to comprehend, my constant reference to God's word [the Bible], makes me a 'whole' person.

+++

Psalms 119:2
Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.

"The Bible will keep you from sin, or sin will keep you from the Bible."

Dwight L. Moody (American Evangelist, 1837-1899)

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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muso

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #213 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 10:24pm

Soren wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 9:22pm:

As for Neanderthals and Denisovas - where did they develop? Proto-neanderthals were found, apparently, in Europe dating back a quarter to half a million years.

Anyway, my main point is that we are so spectacularly different from even our closest relatives that the comparatively short time span of 4 million years doesn't seem sufficient for such an extraordinary evolutionary change to take place, considering that many species have changed very little in even longer time spans.

I gave you some possibilities in another post. Of course nobody can say for sure, but the fossil evidence shows progressively increased cranial capacity with time.

The first humans (or homo sapiens) that were practically indistinguishable from modern human beings started to appear about 50,000 years ago.

Now we have a period of about 44,000 years where there was no significant signs of the things that we distinguish as being characteristic of human beings. These include language and writing. The first development of language is a controversial subject, It has been termed one of the hardest problems to solve, although some have attempted to solve this very problem.

If you want my guess, it's that all the ingredients existed from about 50,000 years ago. The brain was pretty close to its current structure. Language, and with it increased cognitive ability developed at some unknown stage.

If you refer to a previous post where I stated that the function of the human brain developed independently of genetic information contained within the genome. I think the answer to why intelligence came about, lies somewhere in a kind of innate neuro-linguistic programming, together with the external influences of parental effects, behavioural inheritance and epigenetics, all of which are distinct from changes in the genome.

We can see evidence of this in the fact that literacy and education have an obvious result of increasing intelligence. Writing serves as a way of organising and focussing thought. The two revolutions that had enormous implications for human self awareness and intelligence were speech and later, writing.

What do you think?

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« Last Edit: Nov 5^th, 2012 at 10:31pm by muso »

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #214 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 10:43pm Google Brahmin, Kerala and birdsong. Some ancient chants passed on for many thousands of years in Kerala, India are hypothesised to pre-date human language, and most resemble birdsong. Food for thought.
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rabbitoh07

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #215 - Nov 5^th, 2012 at 11:26pm

Soren wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 9:22pm:

muso wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 5:32pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 1:22pm:

muso wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 9:17pm:

Same environment? Well no - for one thing, homo ergaster left Africa for a more temperate climate. So the ancestors of modern man left the other hominids in Africa and were later caught up in a series of glaciations. During the transition from homo ergaster to homo erectus to archaic homo sapiens, average cranial capacities increased.

Oh really??

I may be mistaken - I am not a boffin, after all - but I recall a nature documentary (Attenborough?) where they said that there are humans in Africa whose ancestors never left Africa. There are apparently millions and millions of them - very black skin, black curly hair, flat nose. They could speak to each other, had huts, fire and chiefs and kingdoms and some of them even learned English. It was unbelievable. Has anyone else heard about such people or am I misremembering something?

Or was it a hoax? I am suspecting a hoax, from what you are saying about brains developing in cold climates and glaciation and so forth.

First of all, do you really think that Africans developed in isolation? We are , after all the same species. Do you think somehow that over such a vast period there were groups which were in complete isolation?

I've posted this link before, but here is the story of the journey of mankind based on DNA evidence:

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/

The issue was - why only human developed so spectacularly differently from all other species, including apes. They did share their environment - Africa - with apes from 4 million years ago - when proto-humans separated from apes, according to an earlier post - until 160,000 years ago when they started to migrate out of Africa.

So the 'journey of mankind in the last 160,000 years is not the question. The question is: why only us?

As for Neanderthals and Denisovas - where did they develop? Proto-neanderthals were found, apparently, in Europe dating back a quarter to half a million years.

Anyway, my main point is that we are so spectacularly different from even our closest relatives that the comparatively short time span of 4 million years doesn't seem sufficient for such an extraordinary evolutionary change to take place, considering that many species have changed very little in even longer time spans.

Humans did not develop so spectacularly differently from all other species, including apes. Humans are apes.

And human evolution is really no more spectacular than the evolution of any other creature. Yes Petal, I get it - you think you are special. You probably should just get over yourself. You are an ape that has developed a spoken language. That is all.

We are not so spectacularly different from even our closest relatives. We are remarkably similar to our closest relatives

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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #216 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 12:23am Yes Petal, I get it - you think you are special. You probably should just get over yourself. You are an ape that has developed a spoken language. That is all. - Rabbitoh07 Do you get that Soren?? Its pretty simple when you get the drift.
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #217 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 4:22am

Emma wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 9:20pm:

For your edification and education....

AN OLDIE BUT A GOODEE !!

Comparative Religion

TAOISM                -       Shite happens
PROTESTANTISM    -       Let shite happen to someone else
CATHOLICISM       -       If shite happens, you deserve it
JUDAISM                -       Why does shite always happen to us?
ATHEISM                -       No shite!
TV EVANGELISM    -       Send more shite
BUDDHISM             -       If shite happens it is not really shite
ZEN BUDDHISM    -       What is the sound of shite happening?
HINDUISM             -       This shite happened before

AND
as it was not included.... my own addition

ISLAMISM - Everyone else is shite

Here is the full list (with islam included)

http://www.thejaywalker.com/pages/poo_happens.html

Quote:

Taoism: poo happens.
Confucianism: Confucius say, "poo happens."
Buddhism: If poo happens, it isn't really poo.
Zen Buddhism: poo is, and is not.
Zen Buddhism #2: What is the sound of poo happening?
Hinduism: This poo has happened before.
Islam: If poo happens, it is the will of Allah.
Islam #2: If poo happens, kill the person responsible.
Islam #3: If poo happens, blame Israel.
Catholicism: If poo happens, you deserve it.
Protestantism: Let poo happen to someone else.
Presbyterian: This poo was bound to happen.
Episcopalian: It's not so bad if poo happens, as long as you serve the right wine with it.
Methodist: It's not so bad if poo happens, as long as you serve grape juice with it.
Congregationalist: poo that happens to one person is just as good as poo that happens to another.
Unitarian: poo that happens to one person is just as bad as poo that happens to another.
Lutheran: If poo happens, don't talk about it.
Fundamentalism: If poo happens, you will go to hell, unless you are born again. (Amen!)
Fundamentalism #2: If poo happens to a televangelist, it's okay.
Fundamentalism #3: poo must be born again.
Judaism: Why does this poo always happen to us?
Calvinism: poo happens because you don't work.
Seventh Day Adventism: No poo shall happen on Saturday.
Creationism: God made all poo.
Secular Humanism: poo evolves.
Christian Science: When poo happens, don't call a doctor - pray!
Christian Science #2: poo happening is all in your mind.
Unitarianism: Come let us reason together about this poo.
Quakers: Let us not fight over this poo.
Utopianism: This poo does not stink.
Darwinism: This poo was once food.
Capitalism: That's MY poo.
Communism: It's everybody's poo.
Feminism: Men are poo.
Chauvinism: We may be poo, but you can't live without us...
Commercialism: Let's package this poo.
Impressionism: From a distance, poo looks like a garden.
Idolism: Let's bronze this poo.
Existentialism: poo doesn't happen; poo IS.
Existentialism #2: What is poo, anyway?
Stoicism: This poo is good for me.
Hedonism: There is nothing like a good poo happening!
Mormonism: God sent us this poo.
Mormonism #2: This poo is going to happen again.
Wiccan: An it harm none, let poo happen.
Scientology: If poo happens, see "Dianetics", p.157.
Jehovah's Witnesses: >Knock< >Knock< poo happens.
Jehovah's Witnesses #2: May we have a moment of your time to show you some of our poo?
Jehovah's Witnesses #3: poo has been prophesied and is imminent; only the righteous shall survive its happening.
Moonies: Only really happy poo happens.
Hare Krishna: poo happens, rama rama.
Rastafarianism: Let's smoke this poo!
Zoroastrianism: poo happens half on the time.
Church of SubGenius: BoB runs.
Practical: Deal with poo one day at a time.
Agnostic: poo might have happened; then again, maybe not.
Agnostic #2: Did someone poo?
Agnostic #3: What is this poo?
Satanism: SNEPPAH TIHS.
Atheism: What poo?
Atheism #2: I can't believe this poo!
Nihilism: No poo.
Narcisism: I am the poo!

And of course we must add...Alcoholics Anonymous: poo happens-one day at a time!

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #218 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 4:27am

Well seriously evolution wasnt taught in my schools. Perhaps it wasnt taught in sorens either. I dont know when they started actually teaching it in schools (do they?). So if someone is brainwashed from birth that god dunnit i guess it would be pretty hard to shake. the catholic church has pretty much accepted it now though.

SOB

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muso

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #219 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 6:52am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 4:27am:

Well seriously evolution wasnt taught in my schools. Perhaps it wasnt taught in sorens either. I dont know when they started actually teaching it in schools (do they?). So if someone is brainwashed from birth that god dunnit i guess it would be pretty hard to shake. the catholic church has pretty much accepted it now though.

SOB

Getting over that slight obsession you have with religion, there are still some interesting discussions to be had on how intelligence actually evolved.

It's also an interesting exercise to examine the null hypothesis. It forces us to think through established ideas.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #220 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:46am

muso wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 6:52am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 4:27am:

Well seriously evolution wasnt taught in my schools. Perhaps it wasnt taught in sorens either. I dont know when they started actually teaching it in schools (do they?). So if someone is brainwashed from birth that god dunnit i guess it would be pretty hard to shake. the catholic church has pretty much accepted it now though.

SOB

Getting over that slight obsession you have with religion, there are still some interesting discussions to be had on how intelligence actually evolved.

It's also an interesting exercise to examine the null hypothesis. It forces us to think through established ideas.

Uhh how could i mention evolution not being taught in schools without mentioning religion? Perhaps you are just projecting.

SOB

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Whaaaaaah!
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- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

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Soren

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #221 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:49am

Emma wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 12:23am:

Yes Petal, I get it - you think you are special. You probably should just get over yourself. You are an ape that has developed a spoken language. That is all. - Rabbitoh07

Do you get that Soren??
Its pretty simple when you get the drift.

Yeah, I'll try to remember that when I have a warm shower, make breakfast, drive to work in a big city, log on, make phone calls, read books, go to the movies or theatre, have a conversation, watch TV or get on an internet forum etc, etc, etc - apes all over the world are doing pretty much the same thing. No difference of any significance.

Sure thing.

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Soren

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #222 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:55am

rabbitoh07 wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 11:26pm:

Humans did not develop so spectacularly differently from all other species, including apes. Humans are apes.

And human evolution is really no more spectacular than the evolution of any other creature. Yes Petal, I get it - you think you are special. You probably should just get over yourself. You are an ape that has developed a spoken language. That is all.

We are not so spectacularly different from even our closest relatives. We are remarkably similar to our closest relatives

Yes, they are studying us as we speak, they have vast libraries on humanology, teach their young about the classification of all other animals and plants in their schools and universities, and fly around the world to conferences about ho to protect various group of humans.

Same as us, really, remarkably the same.

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #223 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 10:04am So it is very clear that some quality nuts are defending evolution quite vehemently. The question then becomes: How do they reconcile belief in evolution, with the notion that everyone is equal? The two are completely incompatible. Can anyone explain? I won't hold my breath....
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #224 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 10:13am

... wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 10:04am:

So it is very clear that some quality nuts are defending evolution quite vehemently.

The question then becomes: How do they reconcile belief in evolution, with the notion that everyone is equal?

The two are completely incompatible. Can anyone explain? I won't hold my breath....

Evolution is a scientific fact, Evolution is taught in biology classes are you saying every biology teacher is a nut?

Do you think they preach about virgin births in biology classes or do they teach sperm and egg?

Did the carnivores on Noah's Ark become temporary vegetarians for that pleasure cruise,what do you think they say about this in a biology class?

Everyone being equal is a flawed leftist theory which has nothing to do with evolution.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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