Australian Politics Forum - Evidence of Evolution being a hoax

Baronvonrort

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #255 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 6:30pm

Quantum wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 4:37pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 4:22pm:

Quantum wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 4:03pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 3:23pm:

[quote author=6E455E5E45240 link=1350356132/246#246 date=1352177635][quote author=6E4D5E43425A43425E435E582C0 link=1350356132/242#242 date=1352174029]

[quote]If a scientific fact or theory is proven to be wrong it has to be thrown out, do you understand this concept they teach first year science students?The fact you do not understand this concept shows your very limited knowledge with science.

Which is a bullshit reply. An egotistic, arrogant, condescending, bullshit comment.

I perfectly understand the idea of what is wrong being discarded. You must be either the smartest person in the world if you can come to your conclusions of my scientific knowledge based on this comment of mine;

"But scientific facts are either right or wrong"

or the most judgemental. Considering you said this;

'if a scientific fact or theory is wrong it has to be thrown out'

It cannot be a scientific fact or theory if it is wrong, science discards what is wrong.

Which is being pedantic. But considering you said this;

"'if a scientific fact or theory is wrong it has to be thrown out'"

it is also hypocritical. After all, "it cannot be a scientific fact or theory if it is wrong", even though you just bloody said it.

Think about what you saying for a minute. Not only are you hell bent on picking me up for using the same language as you, your claim that scientific facts can not be wrong is a dangerous road.

Have there been any scientific facts that have later be shown to be wrong? If so, then;

*Scientific facts can be wrong. Once proven wrong they are thrown out and no longer considered facts. But they were once called scientific facts.
*Scientific facts can never be wrong. If something is shown to be wrong it was never a scientific fact to begin with. Therefore nothing in science can be called a fact, as it one day may be shown to be wrong.

What view do you prefer? Your issue with what I said implies that you fit into the second view, yet your own words place you in the first one.

For some hypothesis to be accepted as a scientific theory it usually has to be tested and the evidence evaluated, it has to be 100% correct and flawless to even be considered as a scientific theory these days.
I stand by my comment it cannot be a scientific fact or theory if it is wrong,i should have added it would never be accepted as a scientific theory or fact by the scientific community if it is wrong or even flawed in any way for those who are ignorant about science.
Please read this on scientific theory-
Quote:

Scientific theories are the most reliable,rigorous and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.
This is significantly different from the word theory in common useage,which implies something is unproven or speculative

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

In the past there were mistakes in science, today it is far stricter so there have been theories discarded that were flawed in the first place they would never have reached scientific theory status under todays standards.

Plate tectonics for example is fairly modern,all the Geology textbooks were pulped around 1967 the new ones had this plate tectonic theory.
Wegener came up with continental drift about 60 years earlier yet his mechanism for continental drrift was flawed and he was ridiculed at the time only to have people say about 50 years after he died that he was on the right track.
If it is wrong science throws it out, science deals with the truth.

Evolution has been around since Darwin caused a ruckus with it,Today scientists argue over whether Newton or Darwin made a bigger contribution to science.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #256 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 6:45pm

muso wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 5:19pm:

All I can add to this discussion is that there is very little religious or other discrimination in the scientific community. I know many scientists who are church-goers for example. It doesn't make them lesser scientists for it.

The National academy of sciences had 7% of their members who believed in god, that is less than 1 in 10 of those surveyed so the reality is they are a tiny minority.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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muso

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #257 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 7:14pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

muso wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 5:19pm:

All I can add to this discussion is that there is very little religious or other discrimination in the scientific community. I know many scientists who are church-goers for example. It doesn't make them lesser scientists for it.

The National academy of sciences had 7% of their members who believed in god, that is less than 1 in 10 of those surveyed so the reality is they are a tiny minority.

You mean the Australian Academy of Science? I'd be interested in the source of your stats, because they tend to be top heavy with medical researchers.

Of all the branches of science, Medical Science has the highest proportion of Christians.

Also, a relatively small proportion of scientists are actually Members or Fellows of the Australian Academy of Science.

You should also bear in mind that Creationists and Intelligent Design proponents form a small minority of Christians.

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Soren

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #258 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 9:20pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 2:31pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 12:32pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 12:10pm:

Religious people claim to have debunked evolution yet the truth is they dont even understand it.

It would be way too easy to quote you back to yourself: scientists claim to have debunked religion yet the truth is they dont even understand it.

That science emerged and flourished in the Christian West is not a fluke.

The science that emerged in the west was in spite of christianity not because of christianity.

Well, why didn't it emerge and flourish anywhere else?

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Emma

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #259 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 9:54pm

you keep asking questions Soren, which have either no answer, (yet unknown) or too many answers (everyone has a piece of the pie).

you might as well ask why you were born to poor immigrant tragics, when you could have been born to ancient wealth.

No one has the answer,,, NO not even GOD. Roll Eyes

But , that is bye the bye, as anything to do with recent history , has no bearing or relevance on our present circumstances, in terms of evolution of species..

Humans aren't that much more evolved than apes, or OK chimps or bonobbos .

We are all equal in the sense that we are all made up of the universal substances... in our case on earth... carbon based.
We are all equal in the sense that we arise from the same cauldron.....and because one combination of, OK, genetic material, is good at one thing, eg reproduction, such as humans, doesn't mean overall superiority of everything humans survey as their own. That is pure hubris.

Were that the case, many bacteria, or insects would have swamped us,, but,, hey the story isn't over YET.
By saying that humans are created in the image of GOD, is to say that we represent the absolute pinnacle of biological achievement, and we are perfect.
Never to be surpassed.
After all, GOD is all-knowing, everpresent and infallible.

That is plainly bosh!!! I'd caution you against thinking in such absolutes.

You all are in for nasty surprises, I assure you. Pride rides before a fall.
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

.

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live every day

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Soren

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #260 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 10:18pm

You think you are paraphrasing me by saying things I didn't.

This is interesting because it tells me that you hear what is already in your head, not what anyone actually says. Like the Larson cartoon about what we say to dogs and what dogs hear.

It is also interesting because you have such bizarre positions and they are based on nothing like a considered view but purely on bad rhetoric: unanswerable questions, too many answers, we are all equal in the sense that we all exist (d'oh!!) or in the sense that we are biological entities (D'ooohhh!!!) and my favourite rhetorical run-away cart: if you don't think you are equal, you then must think you are perfect.

The prophetic pose was also slightly amusing at the end, reminded me a bit of the parable about the dog walking on its hind legs.

So keep the rhetorical cart running away with you a few more rounds, Ginger.i

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Emma

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #261 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 10:40pm

so tell me Dog... all about it... ooops no ...so tell me DOG

the things you did say,,, oops no belay that one too. Roll Eyes

In fact Dog, don't bother telling me anything absolute, 'cos it isn't. Cool

You may think the Bible is writ in stone,.. heehee
but you only chose the less stoney bits...
do you uphold the individual will to live an individual life??
nope ..don't think so. The individual NEED to fit in a group , with POWER, I can see that.

Para-phrasing? I reject that.
I was injecting my own view, bouncing off your certainty.!

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live every day

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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #262 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 10:43pm I really should have added, in my earlier than prior post ..'or questions that have no answer, because they only exist in some Soren-imagined or like, vacuum of rationality'..
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muso

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #263 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 10:47pm

Soren wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 9:20pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 2:31pm:

Soren wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 12:32pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 12:10pm:

Religious people claim to have debunked evolution yet the truth is they dont even understand it.

It would be way too easy to quote you back to yourself: scientists claim to have debunked religion yet the truth is they dont even understand it.

That science emerged and flourished in the Christian West is not a fluke.

The science that emerged in the west was in spite of christianity not because of christianity.

Well, why didn't it emerge and flourish anywhere else?

It did, but historically the reasons behind any advancement in science lie in economic strength, Are you forgetting China? - and which civilisation was the first to develop iron smelting?

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« Last Edit: Nov 6^th, 2012 at 10:55pm by muso »

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #264 - Nov 6^th, 2012 at 10:55pm Remind me about China. Did they invent science before the Europeans?
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #265 - Nov 7^th, 2012 at 4:58am

... wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 2:31pm:

LOL @ "Don't believe in science".

Well it is funny but it is also the case. Especially in america.

And there are also the ones that believe in some mechanical theories but not in anything biological. My science teacher @ HS was a stupid baptist who refused to teach us certain things because he didnt "believe in them".

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #266 - Nov 7^th, 2012 at 5:00am

muso wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 5:19pm:

All I can add to this discussion is that there is very little religious or other discrimination in the scientific community. I know many scientists who are church-goers for example. It doesn't make them lesser scientists for it.

Obviously they arent the sort that dont believe in science.

SOB

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Whaaaaaah!
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muso

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #267 - Nov 7^th, 2012 at 6:45am

No. Incidentally, as far as the Australian Academy of Science is concerned, they have a very strong view on Intelligent Design.

I noticed this on their website:

http://www.science.org.au/policy/creation.html

Quote:

Intelligent design is not science
More than 70,000 scientists and science teachers are represented in an open letter warning that 'intelligent design' should not be taught in school science classes. The letter was published in major Australian newspapers on 21 October 2005............

Those religious people who belief in literal Creationism and Intelligent Design are in a tiny minority.

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muso

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #268 - Nov 7^th, 2012 at 6:52am

Soren wrote on Nov 6^th, 2012 at 10:55pm:

Remind me about China. Did they invent science before the Europeans?

Well, yes. Gunpowder and the compass are two examples of Chinese inventions. I guess you'd know about astronomy and the fact that they had the ability to predict eclipses long before Europeans. I wonder if that was because they were not limited by religious doctrine that stated that the Earth was flat and supported by four pillars?

You didn't answer the iron smelting question, but the first iron smelting recorded was in West Africa, and in Tanzania they were smelting reasonably high grade iron around 1200 BC.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #269 - Nov 7^th, 2012 at 9:51am You seem to be confusing technology and even observations of nature with science. Why stop at smelting? Why not declare Freddy Flintsone the firts scientist. Or anything that ever picked up a stick, like an ape? As I do not think you do this accidently, I am surprised.
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