Australian Politics Forum - Evidence of Evolution being a hoax

Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #375 - Nov 18^th, 2012 at 8:15pm don't worry Soren we get it. We GOT it already.!! We don't agree..! Well OK , speaking for myself, I DON'T AGREE. You are raising bogeymen, when they don't really exist. Now who is into conspiracy.?
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #376 - Nov 18^th, 2012 at 8:57pm By the way, you guys think that Soren is arguing from a religious position. He isn't. He's arguing from an anti-science position. I've said it before and he hasn't contradicted it.
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Soren

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #377 - Nov 18^th, 2012 at 8:59pm

Emma wrote on Nov 18^th, 2012 at 8:15pm:

don't worry Soren we get it.

We GOT it already.!!

We don't agree..!

Well OK , speaking for myself, I DON'T AGREE.

You are raising bogeymen, when they don't really exist. Now who is into conspiracy.?

Have you noticed that you have not contributed a single idea but have been sneering and snarling all the way?

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Soren

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #378 - Nov 18^th, 2012 at 9:13pm

muso wrote on Nov 18^th, 2012 at 8:57pm:

By the way, you guys think that Soren is arguing from a religious position. He isn't. He's arguing from an anti-science position. I've said it before and he hasn't contradicted it.

I am against social science's totalitarian, over-reaching claims. Most social science is bollocks.

I am also against the physical sciences when they make claims beyond their ken.

For you make a blanket statement such as 'Soren is anti-science' is just too stupid. Dare I say it, it's an instance among millions of scientists making claims beyond their ken.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #379 - Nov 18^th, 2012 at 9:14pm muso wrote on Nov 18^th, 2012 at 8:09pm: So, would you classify yourself as a technological Marxist or just a Luddite? - or perhaps the fox as opposed to the hedgehog? Analogies have never been your strength, Muso.
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #380 - Nov 18^th, 2012 at 9:26pm Not my analogy. Surely you have read Isaiah Berlin's work? I don't entirely disagree with you on some of the social sciences by the way, but I'm not talking about social sciences.
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Emma

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #381 - Nov 18^th, 2012 at 9:39pm

muso wrote on Nov 18^th, 2012 at 9:26pm:

Surely you have read Isaiah Berlin's essay?

oops wrong quote.

Not to worry....

"Have you noticed that you have not contributed a single idea but have been sneering and snarling all the way?"
- Soren

I don't agree. I have put forward ideas, earlier in the piece, and got fed up with your fatuousness and told you that I would not be responding to your 'points'.... because you are only arguing for the sake of it... and because you happily castigated other posters with scorn and dismissive rhetoric, but not with reasoned basis, so I advised you that all you deserved was the same treatment. Oh yes I did ....
hence my recent responses....sorend.

you can have your beliefs, and welcome to them...
but that you believe whatever you believe DOES NOT mean that is the answer to all things ...just that you are happy to accept those 'answers' that suit you.

You do NOT know the 'truth'. !! before which all else must bow down.
Sorry about that... not.!!!!!

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Emma

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #382 - Nov 18^th, 2012 at 9:52pm

muso wrote on Nov 18^th, 2012 at 8:57pm:

By the way, you guys think that Soren is arguing from a religious position. He isn't. He's arguing from an anti-science position. I've said it before and he hasn't contradicted it.

Er I don't know about that Muso.
I suggest he is arguing from a religious position, which includes his anti-science views.

After all, this is about 'Atheism'... this thread. Isn't it? Not science per se. ??
And Soren is anti - atheist...that's obvious.

Don't give the ideocrat too much credit. !! Angry

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Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26510 Australia	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #383 - Nov 19^th, 2012 at 4:54am in fact science doesnt have anything to do with atheism except atheists are more likely to accept scientific facts. SOB
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Soren

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #384 - Nov 19^th, 2012 at 9:36am

Emma wrote on Nov 18^th, 2012 at 9:39pm:

I don't agree. I have put forward ideas, earlier in the piece

The only idea you put forward was that evolutionary science is incontrovertible and anyone who says otherwise should shudup or 'whatever'.

Oh, and you also contributed that some human behaviour is outside evolution because of the timeframe differences so they should not be used as examples of the holes in the theory of evolution, but if there is any evolutionary explanation for them, that is OK with you.

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Soren

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #385 - Nov 19^th, 2012 at 9:45am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Nov 19^th, 2012 at 4:54am:

in fact science doesnt have anything to do with atheism except atheists are more likely to accept scientific facts.

SOB

Really?

Which scientific facts are more likely to be rejected by agnostics or the religious?
DO all religious people have the same view of science? All agnostics?

The discussion is about the use and limits of science. The discussion is about what is and isn't data, not whether mathematics is inaccurate or not. The world is coherent and 'reasonable', otherwise there could be no sceince and technology. But science and technology are not applicable to every aspect of life, notably not across fields where we recognise freedom to be operating - the inner life of human.

There are other, non-scientific ways of understanding these aspects of existence because they do not lend themselves to be turned into data without missing their very point.

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Soren

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #386 - Nov 19^th, 2012 at 10:10am

Emma wrote on Oct 31^st, 2012 at 8:38pm:

no soren duh.. Roll Eyes

Muso is saying the opposite.. in fact.

That evolution is a perfect example of a 'proven' theory, an unassailable explanation...

at the very least it has shown a progression in complexity of life forms,..and posits the basic origin of species....
including us, and , it is proven, scientifically,
so in fact all questions of morals or ethics, as just irrelevant.

In other words, IMO , .. if ethical behaviour appears, that can only be good for the survival of the specie..us. It IS an imperative , generally speaking...in a SANE society.
Make love not war... Yeah??

See?? Basic 'laws' of nature supercede human-imposed ideas... its just that we think we are the ultimate,... when logically, in every respect, the process of evolution continues.

"at the very least it has shown a progression in complexity of life forms,.."

This has always bugged me.

According to the second law of thermodynamics (science), the universe is winding down.
According to evolutionary theory, life forms are become increasingly complex.

This strikes me as two principles going in opposite directions.

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Kytro

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #387 - Nov 19^th, 2012 at 1:29pm

Soren wrote on Nov 18^th, 2012 at 6:58pm:

Science isn't.
But remember, it is done by people. It is a form of human idealism. Science is not 'out there' any more than 'god' is out there.

And people do all sorts of things for/because of authority.

Science is method, a way of doing things and a way of thinking. It's end goal is just to explain our observations.

You are quite right to say people use science as a way to push their agenda in the same way that people use the economic situation, or racial tensions.

I haven't seen any authority figure do it very well though. They tend to pick and choose which part they wish to use and hence do a poor job.

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Kytro Gold Member Offline Blasphemy: a victimless crime Posts: 3409 Adelaide Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #388 - Nov 19^th, 2012 at 1:30pm Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Nov 19^th, 2012 at 4:54am: in fact science doesnt have anything to do with atheism except atheists are more likely to accept scientific facts. SOB Well perhaps. It depends why they are an atheist. If it's due to being a sceptic then quite possibly.
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Kytro

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #389 - Nov 19^th, 2012 at 1:38pm

Soren wrote on Nov 19^th, 2012 at 10:10am:

"at the very least it has shown a progression in complexity of life forms,.."

This has always bugged me.

According to the second law of thermodynamics (science), the universe is winding down.
According to evolutionary theory, life forms are become increasingly complex.

This strikes me as two principles going in opposite directions.

It's a tad complicated, the universe and I'm not convinced the data says it is winding down. What you are talking about in entropy. Which is basically the fact there are more disorganised states than there are organised state, so the probability is that something will move from a more organised state to a less organised one.

Complexity in this case isn't directly analogous to organisation. Things still obey the laws of physics, and the complexity of life is still well within those boundaries.

There is a certain amount of complexity in the universe, but that does mean all things tend towards less complexity (the increase in complexity in life is because of they system which is in operation). The heat death of the universe may occur one day due to entropy - overall organisation can decrease.

In fact the system, from a physics point of view, that allows life is not more complex for more complex life. It exists because conditions allow it to exist.

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