Australian Politics Forum - Evidence of Evolution being a hoax

gold_medal

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #465 - Nov 24^th, 2012 at 12:11pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 24^th, 2012 at 12:07pm:

gold_medal wrote on Nov 24^th, 2012 at 11:54am:

muso wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2012 at 8:24am:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2012 at 10:10pm:

muso wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2012 at 9:47pm:

I don't think the cat of science is really interested in that particular mouse.

I agree with just about everything you said, with the addition that the context of the neuroscience is just a useful extra dimension in our understanding.

I understand that a picture of a pipe is not a pipe, but a mental picture of something does offer us an extra dimension of understanding. It shouldn't be dismissed just because it doesn't convey that sense of corrosive smoke permeating your lungs when you look at it.

Neuroscience, all science, is very, very important. I am saying, however, that all science tends to overreach and what is worse, tend to resist correctives against such overreach.

There is no science of the mind, even as there is neuroscience and brain science. The mind and the brain are not about the same thing. The way to deal with the mind is through literature, art, conversation, interpersonal relationships, 'this person, this situation' kind of stuff - all unquantifiable, living, elusive yet essential stuff.

I actually know of some instances where science tends to overreach, such as psychometrics, and maybe you're right about some aspects of social evolution too, but it doesn't hurt to postulate, even if your postulate involves standing tip toe on a box on top of a ladder. Eventually the postulate might fall in a heap, or it might not, and even if it does fall in a heap, we might still learn things along the way. Researchers particularly tend to over-reach to the point of cognitive acrobatics, notably in the fields of Cosmology and Quantum Physics. As long as peer researchers are continuously jiggling the ladder, it doesn't really matter.

We probably need a bit more ladder jiggling in the field of human resources. Their latest fads never cease to amuse me.

Ive never heard it described in such a way and it is fabulous. you are right in that bleeding-edge researchers are tip-toe on top of a ladder while their peers are shaking it. The trouble is there are the likes of lastnail and SOB and others who would rather just push the ladder over.

great analogy!

So what happened to the dinosaurs ?? Where did they go ??

How come Noah didn't have enough room for all of the dinsoaur species on his boat ?? Boat not big enough Cheesy

LOL

nice try deflectonail. still bagging everything australian companies do? I suppose you despise ANY siccessful aussies since you are the bototm of the pile.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 106264 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #466 - Nov 24^th, 2012 at 12:12pm Nail, Quote: So what happened to the dinosaurs ?? Where did they go ?? How come Noah didn't have enough room for all of the dinsoaur species on his boat ?? Boat not big enough LOL It hasn't occurred to Longweekend yet that his Bible is false. He believes in miracles too - you just have to pray very hard.
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gold_medal

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #467 - Nov 24^th, 2012 at 2:10pm

Bobby. wrote on Nov 24^th, 2012 at 12:12pm:

Nail, Quote:

So what happened to the dinosaurs ?? Where did they go ??

How come Noah didn't have enough room for all of the dinsoaur species on his boat ?? Boat not big enough LOL

It hasn't occurred to Longweekend yet that his Bible is false.
He believes in miracles too - you just have to pray very hard.

and funnily enough as soon as deflectonail deflects, in coms his 'partner' - boosterseat - to do the same.

you are pathetic.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #468 - Nov 24^th, 2012 at 2:17pm

gold_medal wrote on Nov 24^th, 2012 at 12:11pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 24^th, 2012 at 12:07pm:

gold_medal wrote on Nov 24^th, 2012 at 11:54am:

muso wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2012 at 8:24am:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2012 at 10:10pm:

muso wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2012 at 9:47pm:

I don't think the cat of science is really interested in that particular mouse.

I agree with just about everything you said, with the addition that the context of the neuroscience is just a useful extra dimension in our understanding.

I understand that a picture of a pipe is not a pipe, but a mental picture of something does offer us an extra dimension of understanding. It shouldn't be dismissed just because it doesn't convey that sense of corrosive smoke permeating your lungs when you look at it.

Neuroscience, all science, is very, very important. I am saying, however, that all science tends to overreach and what is worse, tend to resist correctives against such overreach.

There is no science of the mind, even as there is neuroscience and brain science. The mind and the brain are not about the same thing. The way to deal with the mind is through literature, art, conversation, interpersonal relationships, 'this person, this situation' kind of stuff - all unquantifiable, living, elusive yet essential stuff.

I actually know of some instances where science tends to overreach, such as psychometrics, and maybe you're right about some aspects of social evolution too, but it doesn't hurt to postulate, even if your postulate involves standing tip toe on a box on top of a ladder. Eventually the postulate might fall in a heap, or it might not, and even if it does fall in a heap, we might still learn things along the way. Researchers particularly tend to over-reach to the point of cognitive acrobatics, notably in the fields of Cosmology and Quantum Physics. As long as peer researchers are continuously jiggling the ladder, it doesn't really matter.

We probably need a bit more ladder jiggling in the field of human resources. Their latest fads never cease to amuse me.

Ive never heard it described in such a way and it is fabulous. you are right in that bleeding-edge researchers are tip-toe on top of a ladder while their peers are shaking it. The trouble is there are the likes of lastnail and SOB and others who would rather just push the ladder over.

great analogy!

So what happened to the dinosaurs ?? Where did they go ??

How come Noah didn't have enough room for all of the dinsoaur species on his boat ?? Boat not big enough Cheesy

LOL

nice try deflectonail. still bagging everything australian companies do? I suppose you despise ANY siccessful aussies since you are the bototm of the pile.

you're on the wrong thread goldloser. and speaking of unsuccessful businesses how's the water training business going Cheesy

LOL

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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gold_medal

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #469 - Nov 24^th, 2012 at 3:31pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 24^th, 2012 at 2:17pm:

gold_medal wrote on Nov 24^th, 2012 at 12:11pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Nov 24^th, 2012 at 12:07pm:

gold_medal wrote on Nov 24^th, 2012 at 11:54am:

muso wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2012 at 8:24am:

Soren wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2012 at 10:10pm:

muso wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2012 at 9:47pm:

I don't think the cat of science is really interested in that particular mouse.

I agree with just about everything you said, with the addition that the context of the neuroscience is just a useful extra dimension in our understanding.

I understand that a picture of a pipe is not a pipe, but a mental picture of something does offer us an extra dimension of understanding. It shouldn't be dismissed just because it doesn't convey that sense of corrosive smoke permeating your lungs when you look at it.

Neuroscience, all science, is very, very important. I am saying, however, that all science tends to overreach and what is worse, tend to resist correctives against such overreach.

There is no science of the mind, even as there is neuroscience and brain science. The mind and the brain are not about the same thing. The way to deal with the mind is through literature, art, conversation, interpersonal relationships, 'this person, this situation' kind of stuff - all unquantifiable, living, elusive yet essential stuff.

I actually know of some instances where science tends to overreach, such as psychometrics, and maybe you're right about some aspects of social evolution too, but it doesn't hurt to postulate, even if your postulate involves standing tip toe on a box on top of a ladder. Eventually the postulate might fall in a heap, or it might not, and even if it does fall in a heap, we might still learn things along the way. Researchers particularly tend to over-reach to the point of cognitive acrobatics, notably in the fields of Cosmology and Quantum Physics. As long as peer researchers are continuously jiggling the ladder, it doesn't really matter.

We probably need a bit more ladder jiggling in the field of human resources. Their latest fads never cease to amuse me.

Ive never heard it described in such a way and it is fabulous. you are right in that bleeding-edge researchers are tip-toe on top of a ladder while their peers are shaking it. The trouble is there are the likes of lastnail and SOB and others who would rather just push the ladder over.

great analogy!

So what happened to the dinosaurs ?? Where did they go ??

How come Noah didn't have enough room for all of the dinsoaur species on his boat ?? Boat not big enough Cheesy

LOL

nice try deflectonail. still bagging everything australian companies do? I suppose you despise ANY siccessful aussies since you are the bototm of the pile.

you're on the wrong thread goldloser. and speaking of unsuccessful businesses how's the water training business going Cheesy

LOL

http://www.sportsgrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Browns-fan-piss-1.jpg

ging pretty damn good actually. travelling a lot, training hundreds and making money.

hows the servo and your 20yo commodore going and the shared rental accomodation? Or are you going to move in with boosterseat (booby)

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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #470 - Nov 24^th, 2012 at 8:39pm jeez I thought this had gone to shite before you morons showed up. No offense Muso there's always something more putrid, it seems. !!! and you sockwits win hands down.
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #471 - Nov 24^th, 2012 at 10:24pm Your 'selective' just means anything and everything you do not understand or do not like (or do not like because you do not understand). So the blanket stupidity clause applies. And yeah - what's with the sudden influx of morons? Is this some sort of SOBy, fagpie nonsense or what?
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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #472 - Nov 24^th, 2012 at 10:58pm Don't ask me, ask the morons.
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 106264 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #473 - Nov 24^th, 2012 at 11:43pm I only asked: "So what happened to the dinosaurs ?? " Still haven't got an answer. Bible bashers think the world is only 5,000 years old.
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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #474 - Nov 25^th, 2012 at 12:17am [quote So what happened to the dinosaurs ?? Where did they go ?? How come Noah didn't have enough room for all of the dinsoaur species on his boat ?? Boat not big enough LOL [/quote] hmm? good question Seems they were gone, before God arrived on the scene.
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #475 - Nov 25^th, 2012 at 5:05am

Soren wrote on Nov 24^th, 2012 at 10:24pm:

Your 'selective' just means anything and everything you do not understand or do not like (or do not like because you do not understand).
So the blanket stupidity clause applies.

And yeah - what's with the sudden influx of morons? Is this some sort of SOBy, fagpie nonsense or what?

Obviously not but you know you wanted the distraction because you were losing and you called me twice.

SOB

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Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

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Soren

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #476 - Nov 25^th, 2012 at 10:39am

Bobby. wrote on Nov 24^th, 2012 at 11:43pm:

I only asked:

"So what happened to the dinosaurs ?? "

Still haven't got an answer.

Bible bashers think the world is only 5,000 years old. Grin

My 14 year old told me yesterday that if the time since the big bang was a day, the dinosaurs appeared 5 minutes to midnight and us merely 2 seconds to midnight.

I told him that this is illustrates very neatly why the theory of evolution cannot possibly explain the human mind. Nothing all day and in the last coupla seconds, the most amazing thing outa nowhere.

He said, oh, so you believe in the six days and a tea break on the seventh?

I said no. But that theory isn't any less unbelievable than the notion that the human mind, this most complex and unique thing, came as a result of random permutation of matter in a relative blink of an eye.

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Soren

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #477 - Nov 25^th, 2012 at 11:17am

muso wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2012 at 11:31am:

Early in this thread, I quoted a Nobel laureate who spoke about the jungle that is science. I'll try to find it, because it's relevant to this part of the discussion. Here it is:
Quote:

There is no philosophical high-road in science, with epistemological signposts. No, we are in a jungle and find our way by trial and error, building our roads behind us as we proceed. We do not find sign-posts at cross-roads, but our own scouts erect them, to help the rest.

Max Born (1882-1970), Nobel Prize-winning physicist, quoted in Gerald Holton's Thematic Origins of Scientific Thought

Also have a look at this table. It explains the distinction between Science and other kinds of knowledge:

http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/1122science3.html#SCIVSOTHER

The table presents science and other kinds of knowledge with the scientist's unconscious assumptions. For example, in the 'assumptions' category, what is under science is a fundamental Christian idea that is NOT shared by either the ancient Greeks or by Muslims. (you know Borges's addage, god has revealed his mind in two books, each a key to the other, the Book and Nature.)

Anyways, here's the difference between us: I think that not every truth is scientific. Truth about individual human beings and their interactions, for example.

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« Last Edit: Nov 25^th, 2012 at 11:23am by Soren »

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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax Reply #478 - Nov 27^th, 2012 at 12:29am Anyways, here's the difference between us: I think that not every truth is scientific. Truth about individual human beings and their interactions, for example. Jeez, Soren, you could have just said that in the first place.!!
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Soren

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Re: Evidence of Evolution being a hoax
Reply #479 - Nov 27^th, 2012 at 9:48am

Emma wrote on Nov 27^th, 2012 at 12:29am:

Anyways, here's the difference between us: I think that not every truth is scientific. Truth about individual human beings and their interactions, for example.

Jeez, Soren, you could have just said that in the first place.!! Roll Eyes

I did. Remember, I entered this discussion when altrusim was presented as an evolutionary strategy, described - and so presented as true - in mathematical terms.

And so I said that the scientific/mathematical conception and explanation of human interrelationships like altruism (and bravery, honesty, cowardice etc) is nothing but explaining away. The very definition of altruism is that it is action without a motive outside itself.

Mathamatical formulations of human interaction remove the very essence of such interactions - namely, that they are particular interaction, between particular persons. Treating them as data in a mathematical formula removes precisely what makes these events and inteactions worth noticing.

And never mind that the actual experience of these events is not the same of what is reported about them (the latter being the stuff of data).

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