Karnal wrote on Nov 18
th, 2012 at 11:39am:
Yadda, I remember someone from Palestine saying once that people in that region don’t choose religion, they are born into it and it defines them. Religion chooses them. Everyone knows who the Muslims, the Jews and the Copts are. You have no say in it. Changing teams is not what people do.
We are very privaledged to be born in a secular society. Here, our roots don’t determine our future - as much. Religion and spirituality should be a choice, but a look at history will show how rare that really is.
And now that people in the West DO have a choice, what do they do with it?
Squander it away with resentment and bitterness over the lives of others - lives they know absolutely nothing about, and what’s worse, don’t want to know.
Man when he has no oppressor, when he is at peace, and when we are prosperous, we do seem to lose our moral 'bearings', imo.
We become engrossed in the pursuit of pleasure, and self indulgence.
And we the people of the West, in this age, do seem to have forgotten the value of morality, that morality which protects those
important things which we should value.....
truth, liberty, justice, freedom.
But all of those things [which we do indeed cherish], are built upon [protected by] a love for TRUTH, and JUSTICE.
When we forget that [the absolute importance of firstly TRUTH, and secondly JUSTICE], we are in danger of losing everything.
Quote:Thanks for your answer before, Yadda, but I don’t think you nailed the question. You mentioned some good examples of Muslim conflict with people in other countries, but you still avoided the issue of the 25% of the world’s population who just go about their business and live alongside Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.
Are they going against their religion?
If you don’t know you don’t have to make up an answer.
.
Like a smart predator, moslems know that it is futile and foolish to engage a stronger enemy.
That is all.
There is no desire on the part of any moslem, to accommodate disbelievers.
There is only a patience, to slowly work for the goal that they seek, and to wait for their time.
ISLAM and moslems are
always, unendingly, engaged in either a cold, or a hot war, with Allah's enemies.
Every moslem understand that circumstance.
The proof for those claims ?????......
+++
Doctrinally, ISLAM permits a truce [and never peace] with 'unbelievers' - only whenever local moslem peoples/regimes are weak.
If moslems have the capacity to undertake a hot war, all good moslems are religiously
obligated to participate in hot wars [i.e. 'Jihad operations'] against 'unbelievers'.
e.g.
As revealed, by a moslem cleric, speaking to a moslem audience, in the UK....
Quote:Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims
London, Sept.8 [2007]
A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should *preach* peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war.
Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, *only until* they gain enough power to engage in battle.
++++
Raymond Ibrahim: How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior
[in dealings with infidels, moslems should....]
Preach peace when weak, wage war when strong.
also explained here....
Raymond Ibrahim: How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior
Consider this video of Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami, a top-ranked figure in Egypt’s Salafi movement which won some 25% of the votes in recent elections. He makes clear a point that, in a different era, would be thoroughly eye-opening—that all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance: when Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive.
......Burhami is referring to the famous Mecca/Medina division: when Muhammad was weak and outnumbered in his early Mecca period, he preached peace and made pacts with infidels; when he became strong in the Medina period, he preached war and went on the offensive. This dichotomy—preach peace when weak, wage war when strong—has been instructive to Muslim leaders for ages. +++++
COMMENT BY; Johnny Rottenborough on Jan 28th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
@ Damocles—Many of today’s Muslim countries, particularly those around the Mediterranean, used to have large Christian communities. Once Muslims formed the majority in a particular region, the Christians were either massacred, or fled, or converted to Islam. Luckily for us in the West, Muslims are still a minority. But they won’t always be.
Ernest Renan wrote, in 1883:
Quote:‘Those liberals who defend Islam do not know Islam. Islam is the seamless union of the spiritual and the temporal, it is the reign of dogma, it is the heaviest chain mankind has ever borne. In the early Middle Ages, Islam tolerated philosophy because it could not stop it. It could not stop it because it was as yet disorganized, and poorly armed for terror…But as soon as Islam had a mass of ardent believers at its disposal, it destroyed everything in its path. Religious terror and hypocrisy were the order of the day. Islam has been liberal when weak, and violent when strong. Let us not give it credit for what it was merely unable to suppress.’
Liberal when weak, and violent when strong.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/douglasmurray/100024056/geert-wilders-on-trial...The comment above by 'Johnny Rottenborough' was posted in the 'comments', at the link above [but the comment appears to have been removed].
Google;
"Ernest Renan wrote, in 1883"+++++
Quote:
Raymond Ibrahim: "Islam's Doctrines of Deception"
.......This concept is highlighted by the fact that, based on the ten year treaty of Hudaibiya, ratified between Muhammad and his Quraish opponents in Mecca, ten years is, theoretically, the maximum amount of time Muslims can be at peace with infidels. Based on Muhammad's example of breaking the treaty after two years, (by citing a Quraish infraction), the sole function of the "peace-treaty" (hudna) is to buy weakened Muslims time to regroup before going on the offensive once more. Incidentally, Muhammad is quoted in the Hadith saying, "If I take an oath and later find something else better, I do what is better and break my oath."
Is this what former PLO leader and Nobel Peace Prize winner, Yasser Arafat meant when, after negotiating a peace treaty [Arafat was] criticized by Muslims as conceding too much to Israel, said in a mosque, "I see this agreement as being no more than the agreement signed between our Prophet Muhammad and the Quraish in Mecca"? What of Hamas, who on several occasions has made it clear that its ultimate aspiration is to see Israel destroyed. Under what context would it want to initiate a "temporary" peace with the Jewish state?......These are all clear instances of Muslims feigning friendliness simply in order to buy time to strengthen.
Most recently, a new Islamic group associated with Hamas called Jaysh al-Umma (Islam's army), stated clearly, "Muslims all over the world are obliged to fight the Israelis and the infidels until only Islam rules the earth."
If you understand ISLAM and the mindset of moslems, you will understand that a verbal or written agreement with a moslem, isn't worth the paper it is written on.
And Israel has learnt, over many years, that when moslems have been beaten down, they will always sue for a 'peace' and a cessation of hostilities.
i.e.
Whenever they are weakened [or when they are losing in a conflict] moslems always call for a cessation of hostilities [cynically;
"We moslems are the peacemakers!!! We moslems are the ones calling for peace!!!"
], but afterwards, moslems always break their truces [and their 'peace' treaties], as soon as there is no advantage to moslems, in honouring them.
Even a formal treaty with a moslem entity, isn't worth the paper it is written on.
Google;
gaza truce, rockets continue+++
And you know all of this K.
But of course, you will reply as a smarmy ba$tard.
Always playing the part of the
amusing, innocent idiot.
Always asking for more 'explanations'.
To me, you are just
deceitfully, misrepresenting your presence here, in this forum.
I could ask you to confirm that truth.
But that, would just be a foolish request on my part, now wouldn't it, K ?
You want everyone else to play the fool, while you remain so, so, clever, and innocent, and amusing.
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