freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2012 at 10:13pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2012 at 10:13pm:



lucky for Abbott he's not in Egypt .....

Mainstream ISLAM's official sanction to kill critics of ISLAM, is merely following the sunna [the example] of Mohammed.



Dictionary;
Sunna = = the traditional portion of Muslim law based on Muhammad’s words or acts, accepted (together with the Koran) as authoritative by Muslims.



The Hadith [which is an ISLAMIC record of Mohammed's life] records that Mohammed had many of his critics, and those who satirised his un-religious conduct, killed [i.e. assassinated].

That is true.

Google it.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 6^th, 2012 at 12:26pm:



gandalf,

Yes, Uqba bin Abu Muayt was executed, in the presence of Mohammed.

"....He too was captured during the Battle of Badr, and Muhammad ordered him to be executed."

And perhaps Uqba bin Abu Muayt had tried to kill Mohammed too.




But what about the critics of Mohammed, and those who satirised Mohammed, and were then assassinated, after Mohammed whined to his followers, about these critics, these MEN and WOMEN, who had 'hurt Allah'.
<---- that is in the Hadith.


Google;
critics of Mohammed, were assassinated

Yadda wrote on Dec 6^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:


by all means, please do elaborate on these cases Yadda. Answering-Islam (stock standard islamophobe site), lists a grand total of 2 people who allegedly insulted the prophet and were killed for it. The first I have mentioned in my last post - who as it turns out was an assassin. The second was one Kab bin al-Ashraf, who - again after a bit more digging - didn't merely say some nasty words to the prophet, but actively incited Mohammad's enemies to wage war on him. Says wikipedia:

Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka%27b_ibn_al-Ashraf

So this great list of people you allude to, apparently consists of two people - one an assassin, and the other an inciter to violence against the muslim people.

From the muslim's point of view, is it unreasonable for such people to be put to death?

Once again, are you actually able to name a single person who was put to death by Mohammad purely for the insults he received by that person?

When I get time I'll do your homework for you Yadda and discuss these alleged murders. A preliminary investigation indicates that at least some/most of these people were made up and/or the story of their demise fabricated.

Of course you could have confirmed this all for yourself, but never mind, I'll do your work for you when I have time...

Yadda, I started to go through each of those 8 alleged murders one by one, but it seemed like overkill - since we both know what the outcome would be: they are either fabricated or exaggerated accounts. Most of those 8 allegations seem to be part of the so called "Meccan 10" - referring to when Muhammad conquered Mecca and ordered protection of the lives of all the inhabitants of the city except for 10 - allegedly because they had been vocal in their criticism of him. The account is widely regarded as being of questionable authenticity.

The important point here though is the fact that in all cases muslim scholars refute these accounts as innacurate and/or fabrications. This is important because your entire case hinges on the accusation that muslims can kill critics of the prophet because they are simply following the example of the prophet. Yet that can only be true if muslims themselves believe these examples right? Do muslims in fact cite examples of the prophet being a vicious intolerant c*nt - in order to justify them being vicious intolerant c*nts? No - in fact they argue the exact opposite. They question the authenticity of the hadiths that allege that the prophet executed people he didn't like etc on the one hand, and on the other hand argue the authenticity of hadiths that demonstrate the prophet's mercy and tolerance. One example is the account of one of the prophet's enemies who physically assaulted one of his daughters, causing her to misscarriage. Afterwards when he sought forgiveness, the prophet gave it.

Yadda wrote on Dec 7^th, 2012 at 11:57am:


But I'm confused Yadda. All this time you've been telling us that killing critics of the prophet IS the right and proper path of islam - after all, we would be just following the example of the prophet right? So how can muslims call these accusations as "fabrications" or "errors" - or even criticism?? Muslims should be agreeing with these accusations - and give justifications for it. And yet, here they are calling them fabrications - why would that be??

You are not addressing the inherent contradiction in your argument Yadda. All this time you have been arguing that by using violence against the prophet's critics, muslims are merely carrying out the islamically prescribed response. They are doing this openly and proudly, and in doing so they are not trying to promote this image of the tolerant and peaceful prophet. They feel no cognitive dissonance over the violence and intolerance of the prophet - because they believe it is right and proper to hunt down and kill infidels - especially those that insult the prophet. And they actively defend the prophet's actions in this regards - to both muslims and non-muslims alike.

Thats your view of muslims.

In this case, it makes no sense for muslims to be "duplicitous" in the way you describe, by pretending that the prophet was in fact tolerant and forgiving towards non-muslim critics. If they were, then they wouldn't be marching all around the world proudly and openly calling for the beheading of those who criticise the prophet - like in all those picture you never fail to remind us of remember? What would make sense, if we were to follow along the lines of your argument, would be for muslims to respond to criticisms accusing the prophet of intolerance and violence not by refuting them, but by arguing how this violence and intolerance was justified and proper. So to put it in your terms, non-muslims would still be "always in error" - since they are incapable of understanding the virtue of this violent action.

Of course I expect as usual this to completely fly over your head. Naturally it is impossible to have any sort of intellectual and reasoned argument with you about this, since you are only interested in bigotry and hate, which I find extremely sad. I don't expect I'll be making any more serious responses to you, since its obviously a complete waste of time.