Australian Politics Forum - Rubbish education system

Sir lastnail

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Re: Rubbish education system - private school scammers
Reply #15 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 12:18pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 12:12pm:

Finland has a 23% VAT (GST) and a top marginal tax rate of 29% and a company tax rate of 26%.

With a 23% GST Aust could maybe afford to pump extra cash into education, hospitals etc.

Increase the GST to 23% and reduce marginal & company tax rates. Yep copy Finland. Wink

as opposed to having a nation of dummies dependent on the welfare system for the rest of their life !! I think a 23% GST is preferable especially when you don't need to pay GST on online sales less than $1000 Wink

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Rubbish education system - private school scammers
Reply #16 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 12:24pm

JC Denton wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 12:02pm:

why would anybody always expect there to be constant improvement? individual differences in educational accomplishment are causally to a great extent bound to genotypic factors (whether they be personality related or cognitive) and aren't really under the immediate control of anybody. our performance on the TIMSS was fine:

Grade 8
Education system Average score
TIMSS scale average 500
Korea, Rep. of 613 △
Singapore1 611 △
Chinese Taipei-CHN 609 △
Hong Kong-CHN 586 △
Japan 570 △
Russian Federation1 539 △
Israel2 516
Finland 514
United States1 509
England-GBR3 507
Hungary 505
Australia 505
Slovenia 505
Lithuania4 502
Italy 498 ▽
New Zealand 488 ▽
Kazakhstan 487 ▽
Sweden 484 ▽
Ukraine 479 ▽
Norway 475 ▽
Armenia 467 ▽
Romania 458 ▽
United Arab Emirates 456 ▽
Turkey 452 ▽
Lebanon 449 ▽
Malaysia 440 ▽
Georgia4,5 431 ▽
Thailand 427 ▽
Macedonia, Rep. of6 426 ▽
Tunisia 425 ▽
Chile 416 ▽
Iran, Islamic Rep. of6 415 ▽
Qatar6 410 ▽
Bahrain6 409 ▽
Jordan6 406 ▽
Palestinian Nat'l Auth.6 404 ▽
Saudi Arabia6 394 ▽
Indonesia6 386 ▽
Syrian Arab Republic6 380 ▽
Morocco7 371 ▽
Oman6 366 ▽
Ghana7 331 ▽

where is the beef? i don't smacking get all this whining about how 'terrible' our educational system is. we're doing just fine. its just more of an excuse for the tree shakers to shake down people for more money for whatever lame pet 'solution' they have to this alleged 'problem'.

that's bullshit. It has got nothing to do with genetics. It has more to do with culture and what value we put on a decent education which is f.ckall in this country when aussie rules is the top news headlines each night and you have people of the likes of lindsay fox getting on tv and telling everyone how he made it in the big time with a grade 5 education.

Then we had John Howard tell us that it was better to be a trady than to continue onto university.

No wonder the youth are not motivated in this country to do well Sad

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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gold_medal

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Re: Rubbish education system - private school scammers
Reply #17 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 12:33pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 12:16pm:

gold_medal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

as usual dope-nail's target is wrong. Finlands public system is great and the reason there are so few private schools there is because lack of need. Private schools in Australia exist because the public system is crap - not the other way around. So how about target the poxy quaility of PUBLIC education instread of your usual envy-based vitriole at the latest target of fancy.

If you hate private schools so much then lobby to have the public syetem adopt the Finish model. Within 10 years there would be little demand for private schools here and you can get your wish. But remember that the Finns already spend LESS per head on theier education system than we do in our publci system so the problem isnt money - its how it is done that is the problem.

You could increase public school funding by 50% and nothing would change because funding isnt the problem. And why does Finland do more with less money? in part because there is very little bureaucracy to fund whereas our Education Departments have more peopl on $300K than almost any other dept while some schools cant afford paper.

what a stupid argument as usual.

you don't fix up the public school system by doling out public money to private schools which are run as businesses usually by corrupt religious institutions.

The Fins employ the top brass teachers which are better paid than lawyers and doctors. That's the first thing that needs to change is the calibre of the teachers.

actually it isnt. the FIRST thing (and something you conveniently forget) is the finnish schools have autonomy. They have the right to hire and fire and spend their govt funds the way THEY see fit - just like private schools. IN fact blunt-nail the Finnihs system that you aore so much is pretty much EXACTLY like our private system where teachers are paid more, respected more and the schools have autonomy. IN your typica lfashion, you have actually PRAISED the school system you are opposing.

You're not very smart, are you?

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Re: Rubbish education system - private school scammers
Reply #18 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 12:36pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 12:24pm:

Then we had John Howard tell us that it was better to be a trady than to continue onto university.

And you'd do well to disregard who said it and listen up. Tradies are cleaning up and naming their price, while womyns studies and communications graduates are working at mcdonalds.

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In the fullness of time...

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Swagman

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Re: Rubbish education system - private school scammers
Reply #19 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 12:45pm

It's not all about money. There's no incentive. Our trendy, lovie dovie society of facebook and compassion and socialism means both teachers and kids don't have the motivation or incentive.

I think it's more about kids having it too easy in Australian schools and teachers not being paid on performance.

Teachers (not all ) just turn up when not having sickies for the pay and extra holidays.

Other nations kids actually work hard at school so that they can earn a good living.

Australian kids know they have the dole and mum & dad to
back them up and send them on gap years and to schoolies parties.... Geezus Roll Eyes

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Rubbish education system - private school scammers
Reply #20 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 1:23pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 11:07am:

They only had to look at the Finnish PUBLIC education system to know how to fix the system but they keep wanting to ignore it whilst poring good money after bad into private school scam operations Sad

How many times do the need to be told !!

Ditch the private school scam operators. Ditch the school uniform costumes. Train the best school teachers and pay them well. 2nd best is not good enough !!

And how much of this vitrol is due to the fact that a majority of 'private schools' are religiously run???

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Rubbish education system - private school scammers
Reply #21 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 1:24pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

It's not all about money. There's no incentive. Our trendy, lovie dovie society of facebook and compassion and socialism means both teachers and kids don't have the motivation or incentive.

I think it's more about kids having it too easy in Australian schools and teachers not being paid on performance.

Teachers (not all ) just turn up when not having sickies for the pay and extra holidays.

Other nations kids actually work hard at school so that they can earn a good living.

Australian kids know they have the dole and mum & dad to
back them up and send them on gap years and to schoolies parties.... Geezus Roll Eyes

Very true Swagman....but what is the 'incentive' when it's considered 'naughty' to hold kids back a grade because they can't read, write or count???

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Rubbish education system - private school scammers
Reply #22 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 1:33pm

gold_medal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 12:16pm:

gold_medal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

as usual dope-nail's target is wrong. Finlands public system is great and the reason there are so few private schools there is because lack of need. Private schools in Australia exist because the public system is crap - not the other way around. So how about target the poxy quaility of PUBLIC education instread of your usual envy-based vitriole at the latest target of fancy.

If you hate private schools so much then lobby to have the public syetem adopt the Finish model. Within 10 years there would be little demand for private schools here and you can get your wish. But remember that the Finns already spend LESS per head on theier education system than we do in our publci system so the problem isnt money - its how it is done that is the problem.

You could increase public school funding by 50% and nothing would change because funding isnt the problem. And why does Finland do more with less money? in part because there is very little bureaucracy to fund whereas our Education Departments have more peopl on $300K than almost any other dept while some schools cant afford paper.

what a stupid argument as usual.

you don't fix up the public school system by doling out public money to private schools which are run as businesses usually by corrupt religious institutions.

The Fins employ the top brass teachers which are better paid than lawyers and doctors. That's the first thing that needs to change is the calibre of the teachers.

actually it isnt. the FIRST thing (and something you conveniently forget) is the finnish schools have autonomy. They have the right to hire and fire and spend their govt funds the way THEY see fit - just like private schools. IN fact blunt-nail the Finnihs system that you aore so much is pretty much EXACTLY like our private system where teachers are paid more, respected more and the schools have autonomy. IN your typica lfashion, you have actually PRAISED the school system you are opposing.

You're not very smart, are you?

Neither are you bugger head.

The Finnish government doesn't have to pay extra to a private school to build swimming pools or indoor hockey courts etc nor are the students forced to wear stupid uniforms so the the Finnish education system is poles apart from the private education system here.

The Finnish teachers usually have masters degrees and are paid more than lawyers and doctors. That means their course is a lot more involved than the watered down bullshit that we have here and that's why they have autonomy because the teachers are high up the ladder to start with and can run a school responsibly without outside intervention.

And that means your daughter wouldn't even get into the starting gate at a Finnish school !! Her resume would be thrown straight into the rubbish bin as it should be !!

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Rubbish education system - private school scammers
Reply #23 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 1:38pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 1:23pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 11:07am:

They only had to look at the Finnish PUBLIC education system to know how to fix the system but they keep wanting to ignore it whilst poring good money after bad into private school scam operations Sad

How many times do the need to be told !!

Ditch the private school scam operators. Ditch the school uniform costumes. Train the best school teachers and pay them well. 2nd best is not good enough !!

And how much of this vitrol is due to the fact that a majority of 'private schools' are religiously run???

I'm glad you acknowledge that most of these private schools are run by corrupt religious institutions just after the dollar Sad

When you put profits before the welfare of children you are asking for a mediocre education system and a dumbing down of the nation which is exactly what we now have Sad

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Rubbish education system - private school scammers
Reply #24 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 1:55pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 1:38pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 1:23pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 11:07am:

They only had to look at the Finnish PUBLIC education system to know how to fix the system but they keep wanting to ignore it whilst poring good money after bad into private school scam operations Sad

How many times do the need to be told !!

Ditch the private school scam operators. Ditch the school uniform costumes. Train the best school teachers and pay them well. 2nd best is not good enough !!

And how much of this vitrol is due to the fact that a majority of 'private schools' are religiously run???

I'm glad you acknowledge that most of these private schools are run by corrupt religious institutions just after the dollar Sad

When you put profits before the welfare of children you are asking for a mediocre education system and a dumbing down of the nation which is exactly what we now have Sad

I don't 'acknowledge' anything of the sort.....
MOST of the religious organisations are no more corrupt than the governments....

AND public schools put the 'welfare' (self esteem) of children before education too..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Rubbish education system - private school scammers
Reply #25 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 1:57pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 1:24pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

It's not all about money. There's no incentive. Our trendy, lovie dovie society of facebook and compassion and socialism means both teachers and kids don't have the motivation or incentive.

I think it's more about kids having it too easy in Australian schools and teachers not being paid on performance.

Teachers (not all ) just turn up when not having sickies for the pay and extra holidays.

Other nations kids actually work hard at school so that they can earn a good living.

Australian kids know they have the dole and mum & dad to
back them up and send them on gap years and to schoolies parties.... Geezus Roll Eyes

Very true Swagman....but what is the 'incentive' when it's considered 'naughty' to hold kids back a grade because they can't read, write or count???

If they were held back, there would be an overwhelming number of eight, nine and ten year old's in grade one. That wouldn't work either.

There must be more time spent on the basics in the lower years, a lot more time, even if it means no religion, Auskick or science.

Even an extra two lessons per day would improve the outcomes.

Less waste of time, more reading, writing and arithmetic. Lift our game now, before we have a whole generation of illiterates.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Rubbish education system - private school scammers
Reply #26 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 2:04pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 1:57pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 1:24pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 12:45pm:

It's not all about money. There's no incentive. Our trendy, lovie dovie society of facebook and compassion and socialism means both teachers and kids don't have the motivation or incentive.

I think it's more about kids having it too easy in Australian schools and teachers not being paid on performance.

Teachers (not all ) just turn up when not having sickies for the pay and extra holidays.

Other nations kids actually work hard at school so that they can earn a good living.

Australian kids know they have the dole and mum & dad to
back them up and send them on gap years and to schoolies parties.... Geezus Roll Eyes

Very true Swagman....but what is the 'incentive' when it's considered 'naughty' to hold kids back a grade because they can't read, write or count???

If they were held back, there would be an overwhelming number of eight, nine and ten year old's in grade one. That wouldn't work either.

There must be more time spent on the basics in the lower years, a lot more time, even if it means no religion, Auskick or science.

Even an extra two lessons per day would improve the outcomes.

Less waste of time, more reading, writing and arithmetic. Lift our game now, before we have a whole generation of illiterates.

pansi, proper education should start at the kindergarten level and even in these child minding centres, but it doesn't Sad

There are two problems already. One is the fact that private operators usually run these centres to maximise profit at the expense of the child's education. Secondly they have this ridiculous play based 'learning' system so that encourages the child to play instead of learn.

The whole education system in australia is in a shambles and needs a desperate overhaul otherwise we will become like Kazakhstan Sad

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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Re: Rubbish education system - private school scammers
Reply #27 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 2:09pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 2:04pm:

There are two problems already. One is the fact that private operators usually run these centres to maximise profit at the expense of the child's education. Secondly they have this ridiculous play based 'learning' system so that encourages the child to play instead of learn.

You're overlooking the problem that children weren't meant to be raised by day care workers and disney movies. The result of that is a society filled with 'western apologist' clones.

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In the fullness of time...

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JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5470 Gender:	Re: Rubbish education system - private school scammers Reply #28 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 2:13pm this whole thread: hysterics about a problem that isn't really there in the first place.
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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: Rubbish education system - private school scammers Reply #29 - Dec 12^th, 2012 at 2:15pm JC Denton wrote on Dec 12^th, 2012 at 2:13pm: this whole thread: hysterics about a problem that isn't really there in the first place. But...but...australian school children are well behind a host of other (unnamed) countries when it comes to reading, mathematics and science!!!!
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