Australian Politics Forum - Theodore Roosevelt on poss Muslim liberalization

Karnal

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Re: Theodore Roosevelt on poss Muslim liberalization
Reply #15 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 11:09pm

Well, I’m cunning, no? The conflict and the crisis is set to remain perpetual, as it has been since the 7th century.

When you’re right you’re right. Islam has not caused every conflict. How many conflicts have there been between modernity and Islam?

And how many between modernity and itself?

Still, your conflict is with Islam. It’s always been the enemy, remember? How many times have we played this game?

The world’s turned a bit over the last 3 years, old chap, but you’re still right where you were.

And that’s why we’re so fond of you. Sometimes it’s the enduring things we appreciate most, no?

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Yadda

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Re: Theodore Roosevelt on poss Muslim liberalization
Reply #16 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 11:35pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 6^th, 2013 at 11:09pm:

Well, I’m cunning, no? The conflict and the crisis is set to remain perpetual, as it has been since the 7th century.

When you’re right you’re right. Islam has not caused every conflict. How many conflicts have there been between modernity and Islam?

And how many between modernity and itself?

Still, your conflict is with Islam. It’s always been the enemy, remember? How many times have we played this game?

The world’s turned a bit over the last 3 years, old chap, but you’re still right where you were.

And that’s why we’re so fond of you. Sometimes it’s the enduring things we appreciate most, no?

You should take a look in a mirror.

+++

People can ignore what is true and important, and still live a happy life, ....sometimes for a very long time.

But the consequence of ignoring what is true and important, will usually always eventually bite them on their ar$e.

You may be enjoying a wonderful vista, while you are running towards the unseen edge of a precipice.

But soon after you tumble over the edge of that precipice the vista is going to change, drastically.

Having little or no care for our immediate environment, is foolish, and potentially dangerous.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Karnal

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Re: Theodore Roosevelt on poss Muslim liberalization
Reply #17 - Jan 7^th, 2013 at 12:13am

I couldn’t agree more, Yadda. While we’re waxing philosophical about modernity and its enemy, the world’s getting warmer. While the world fights over the 57% of oil reserves under Arab land, the oil’s burning up.

The real enemy isn’t Islam, it’s overpopulation, food and energy security, and unprecedented levels of greed for sh!t no one needs. The real clash of civilizations is between 20% of the world wbo live like us, and the 80% who live like them.

There’s no nice slogan, no real solution, and no enemy.

Perhaps that’s the most confusing thing of all.

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Yadda

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Re: Theodore Roosevelt on poss Muslim liberalization
Reply #18 - Jan 7^th, 2013 at 12:29am

Karnal wrote on Jan 7^th, 2013 at 12:13am:

I couldn’t agree more, Yadda. While we’re waxing philosophical about modernity and its enemy, the world’s getting warmer. While the world fights over the 57% of oil reserves under Arab land, the oil’s burning up.

The real enemy isn’t Islam, it’s overpopulation,

food and energy security, and unprecedented levels of greed for sh!t no one needs. The real clash of civilizations is between 20% of the world wbo live like us, and the 80% who live like them.

There’s no nice slogan, no real solution, and no enemy.

Perhaps that’s the most confusing thing of all.

If that is true, and i am not saying that it is not, what sort of worldwide political philosophy would some people judge to be best suited, to 'solving' that particular problem ?

Mankind are so, so, clever.

Aren't they ? Shocked

And men have thought through every possible eventuality.

Haven't they ? Shocked

No.

Some men think that they are though.

And it is man's own nature which is driving God's plan forward.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Theodore Roosevelt on poss Muslim liberalization
Reply #19 - Jan 7^th, 2013 at 12:36am

Yadda wrote on Jan 7^th, 2013 at 12:29am:

Mankind are so, so, clever.

Aren't they ? Shocked

And men have thought through every possible eventuality.

Haven't they ? Shocked

Isaiah 28:15
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Soren

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Re: Theodore Roosevelt on poss Muslim liberalization
Reply #20 - Jan 7^th, 2013 at 10:29am

Karnal wrote on Jan 7^th, 2013 at 12:13am:

The real enemy isn’t Islam, it’s overpopulation, food and energy security, and unprecedented levels of greed for sh!t no one needs. The real clash of civilizations is between 20% of the world wbo live like us, and the 80% who live like them.

There’s no nice slogan, no real solution, and no enemy.

Perhaps that’s the most confusing thing of all.

Bollocks on stilts.

The poor countries are trying to get out of poverty (and are not waging a terrorist campaign against the non-Buddhists, non-animists, non-Hindus, non-whatever) while Mahomet crowd are waging a campaigbn to return to the 7th century.

Arab Spring - what's it all about? Not about hpow to catch up with Korea, Taiwan or even Thailand or Malaysia.
It's about how to get sharia established - ie turning back the calendar.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Theodore Roosevelt on poss Muslim liberalization Reply #21 - Jan 7^th, 2013 at 10:29am Karnal wrote on Jan 6^th, 2013 at 11:09pm: Well, I’m cunning, no? No. I said dishonest and mendacious.
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Karnal

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Re: Theodore Roosevelt on poss Muslim liberalization
Reply #22 - Jan 7^th, 2013 at 12:08pm

Soren wrote on Jan 7^th, 2013 at 10:29am:

Karnal wrote on Jan 6^th, 2013 at 11:09pm:

Well, I’m cunning, no?

No. I said dishonest and mendacious.

Thanks, old chap. Is it dishonest and mendacious to claim that the Arab spring has ANYthing to do with the establishment of Sharia? Not at all.

It’s just mindnumbingly stupid. Crackpot stupid. Lobotomisingly stupid.

And again - a claim created out of thin air.

All that is solid, old boy...

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Soren

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Re: Theodore Roosevelt on poss Muslim liberalization
Reply #23 - Jan 7^th, 2013 at 1:11pm

You must have tuned into the TV station only you can receive (again), PB.

Have a look at the developments in the Arab world.
Egypt - Muslim Brotherhood with even more concentrated presidential powers. 0 point.
Lybia - murdering the US ambassador on 11 September - a real democratic development, what? 0 point.
Syria - bloodbath as fascists and islamists duke it out for supremacy. -10 points
Tunisia - mild Islamists yet to be hijacked by radicals. + 1 point.
Yemen - oy gevalt! -2 points

Anything else?

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freediver

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Re: Theodore Roosevelt on poss Muslim liberalization
Reply #24 - Jan 7^th, 2013 at 7:08pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 7^th, 2013 at 12:13am:

I couldn’t agree more, Yadda. While we’re waxing philosophical about modernity and its enemy, the world’s getting warmer. While the world fights over the 57% of oil reserves under Arab land, the oil’s burning up.

The real enemy isn’t Islam, it’s overpopulation, food and energy security, and unprecedented levels of greed for sh!t no one needs. The real clash of civilizations is between 20% of the world wbo live like us, and the 80% who live like them.

There’s no nice slogan, no real solution, and no enemy.

Perhaps that’s the most confusing thing of all.

Karnal, what role do you think Muslims are playing in what you see as the 'real problem'?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Soren

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Re: Theodore Roosevelt on poss Muslim liberalization
Reply #25 - Jan 7^th, 2013 at 7:58pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 7^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 7^th, 2013 at 10:29am:

Karnal wrote on Jan 6^th, 2013 at 11:09pm:

Well, I’m cunning, no?

No. I said dishonest and mendacious.

Thanks, old chap. Is it dishonest and mendacious to claim that the Arab spring has ANYthing to do with the establishment of Sharia? Not at all.

It’s just mindnumbingly stupid. Crackpot stupid. Lobotomisingly stupid.

And again - a claim created out of thin air.

All that is solid, old boy...

You are an arsebandit so you are naturally confused and discombobulated. Comes with the territory. But that doesn't mean that everyone else is.

You can't tell your arse from your elbow, you are still grappling with identity so it's all very confusing for you, PB. You are conflicted about who you are, why not about this as well? As long as there is ambivalence, you are happy (well, you are not unhappy).

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Theodore Roosevelt on poss Muslim liberalization
Reply #26 - Jan 8^th, 2013 at 10:46am

Soren wrote on Jan 7^th, 2013 at 1:11pm:

You must have tuned into the TV station only you can receive (again), PB.

Have a look at the developments in the Arab world.
Egypt - Muslim Brotherhood with even more concentrated presidential powers. 0 point.
Lybia - murdering the US ambassador on 11 September - a real democratic development, what? 0 point.
Syria - bloodbath as fascists and islamists duke it out for supremacy. -10 points
Tunisia - mild Islamists yet to be hijacked by radicals. + 1 point.
Yemen - oy gevalt! -2 points

Anything else?

Your not making any worthwhile points here soren. karnal's assertion that the arab spring had nothing to do with installing sharia still stands. It started in Tunisia over high prices and general economic and political stagnation. It flared up when a street vendor self-immolated after his stall and with it his livelihood was confiscated by police. It then spread to Egypt where, among other things, trade-unionists gathered to commemorate the anniversary of a brutal crackdown of workers at a factory 4 years earlier. Islamists were noticeable in their absense of the famous Tahrir Square rallies. The muslim brotherhood played no part in the fall of Mubarak, and only cashed in during the subsequent elections.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: Theodore Roosevelt on poss Muslim liberalization
Reply #27 - Jan 8^th, 2013 at 11:09am

The 'Arab Spring' is a western journalistic formulation.

The Muslim Brotherhood has been planning to capture Egypt and the wider Islamic Arab world for almost a century. This has never been a secret to Egyptians and other Muslim Arabs, even if it is a surrprise to you and PB.
It has now succeeded in Egypt. Mosri has now greater dictatorial powers than Mubarak. Constitutionally.

Unless Egypt collapses economically and the generals take over, the Muslim Brotherhood is there to stay because there is no political alternative.
ANd the funny thing is that in the Islamic cointext, we are lucky that it is not the mad mullahs or the crazy warlords and Talibs who have taken over the place. Islamists in suits are still preferable to Islamists in pyjamas.

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« Last Edit: Jan 8^th, 2013 at 11:20am by Soren »

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Theodore Roosevelt on poss Muslim liberalization
Reply #28 - Jan 8^th, 2013 at 11:53am

Soren wrote on Jan 8^th, 2013 at 11:09am:

The 'Arab Spring' is a western journalistic formulation.

The overthrow of Ben-Ali and Mubarak were no one's formulation - they actually happened. They also had nothing to do with islamists - they did not participate in the overthrow, and there is no shred of evidence that they played any role in the overthrows whatsoever.

If the islamists jumped on the bandwagon after the fact, then that in no way refutes the fact that the actual revolutions themselves had nothing to do with the islamists.

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« Last Edit: Jan 8^th, 2013 at 12:16pm by polite_gandalf »

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: Theodore Roosevelt on poss Muslim liberalization
Reply #29 - Jan 8^th, 2013 at 2:25pm

They 'didn't jump on the bandwagon'. They seized power.
In Egypt, it was inevitable as they have been working towards that goal for a century. To now say that it has been unforeseen that the Muslim Brotherhood would seize power is a stupid attempt at pretending ignorance.

What other political force has there been in Egypt that is organised enough and significant enough to outweigh the MB?? Nothing.

They haven't swapped their suits for pyjamas yet because they need financial bail-out and support to avoid economic collapse and with that, another much more violent convulsion.

Just because they are a bit more savvie than the grizzly, bearded monsters of Afghanistan doesn't mean they are any less of an Islamist outfit.

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