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Poll closed Poll
Question: With maqqas information, what is the % of illegals to Aust
*** This poll has now closed ***


100%    
  2 (40.0%)
99.9%    
  1 (20.0%)
98%    
  0 (0.0%)
90%    
  1 (20.0%)
88%    
  0 (0.0%)
80%    
  1 (20.0%)
79%    
  0 (0.0%)
101%    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 5
« Created by: progressiveslol on: Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:27pm »

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Article 31 UN Refugee Convention - read it!! (Read 3411 times)
Dnarever
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Re: Article 31 UN Refugee Convention - read it!!
Reply #30 - Dec 29th, 2012 at 7:12pm
 
Macca
Quote:
Note the words "coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened"

I was not aware that Malaysia was threatening their life or freedom


You don’t mention Indonesia where the policy is to send them back where they came from = definitely life threatening and not a place of safety.


Macca
Quote:
I was not referring to Malaysia d1ckhead


It was the location you specified?

Macca
Quote:
As for who determines if Nauru is necessary or not - if you actually read it does not regulate WHERE. Therefore Australia can do as it pleases.


Send then to Malaysia as an example????  Think you may be wrong about that?

Macca
Quote:
I was referring to the act of asylum seeking

Once they have set foot in a country that removes the danger they were escaping from then that country assumes the asylum responsibility or process them to a third country (as per Article 31)


Only if they are signatories to the convention – if not these words most likely mean nothing.

Macca
Quote:
Those who do not sign it - can still use the guidelines.


Or not – mostly not.
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John S
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Re: Article 31 UN Refugee Convention - read it!!
Reply #31 - Dec 29th, 2012 at 7:47pm
 
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/FCA/2002/1009.html?query...

“60 In any event, while it is literally correct to describe the applicant as an “unlawful” entrant and an “unlawful non-citizen” that is not a complete description of his position. The nomenclature adopted under the Act provides for the description of persons as “uinlawful non-citizens” because they arrived in Australia without a visa. This does not fully explain their status in Australian law as such persons are on-shore applicants for protection visas on the basis that they are refugees under the Refugees Convention.

61 The Refugees Convention is a part of conventional international law that has been given legislative effect in Australia: see ss 36 and 65 of the Act. It has always been fundamental to the operation of the Refugees Convention that many applicants for refugee status will, of necessity, have left their countries of nationality unlawfully and therefore, of necessity, will have entered the country in which they seek asylum unlawfully. Jews seeking refuge from war-torn Europe, Tutsis seeking refuge from Rwanda, Kurds seeking refuge from Iraq, Hazaras seeking refuge from the Taliban in Afghanistan and many others, may also be called “unlawful non-citizens” in the countries in which they seek asylum. Such a description, however, conceals, rather than reveals, their lawful entitlement under conventional international law since the early 1950′s (which has been enacted into Australian law) to claim refugee status as persons who are “unlawfully” in the country in which the asylum application is made.

62 The Refugees Convention implicitly requires that, generally, the signatory countries process applications for refugee status of on-shore applicants irrespective of the legality of their arrival, or continued presence, in that country: see Art 31. That right is not only conferred upon them under international law but is also recognised by the Act (see s 36) and the Migration Regulations 1994 (Cth) which do not require lawful arrival or presence as a criterion for a protection visa. If the position were otherwise many of the protection obligations undertaken by signatories to the Refugees Convention, including Australia, would be undermined and ultimately rendered nugatory.

63 Notwithstanding that the applicant is an “unlawful non-citizen” under the Act who entered Australia unlawfully and has had his application for a protection visa refused, in making that application he was exercising a “right” conferred upon him under Australian law.”

Now those four paragraphs make the law pretty clear and that was upheld by three more judges in the Full Court of the Federal court in April 2003 after Akram had been deported.

So far so good on the “unlawful” = “illegal” story.

So let’s wander off to the High Court appeal which became Behrooz, Al Kateb and Al Khafaji and have a look at the meaning of “unlawful”.

GUMMOW J: What is the baggage of the word “unlawful”?

MR BENNETT: Your Honour, none. It is a word used in a definition provisihttp://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/other/HCATrans/2003/456.html?query=behroozon, it is simply a defined phrase. It is not a phrase which necessarily involves the commission of a criminal offence.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/other/HCATrans/2003/458.html?query...

“GUMMOW J: What is the force of the word “unlawful”?

MR BENNETT: It is merely a word which is used in a definition section, your Honour.

GLEESON CJ: Does it mean without lawful permission?

MR BENNETT: Yes, that is perhaps the best way of paraphrasing – - –

GUMMOW J: But in the Austinian sense that is meaningless, is it not?

MR BENNETT: Yes, your Honour. The draftsperson of the Act is not necessarily taken to be familiar with the – - –

GUMMOW J: Well, perhaps they ought to be.”

Wow, so the word unlawful is legally meaningless.

Who would have thought. But wait it get’s better.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/HCA/2004/37.html?query=a...

continue
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Re: Article 31 UN Refugee Convention - read it!!
Reply #32 - Dec 29th, 2012 at 7:48pm
 
Here is the actual judgement. Paragraph 86 is there for all the world to see.

“From 1901 to 1994, federal law contained offence provisions respecting unlawful entry and presence in Australia, which was punishable by imprisonment as well as by liability to deportation. The legislation gave rise to various questions of construction which reached this Court[90]. The first of these provisions was made by the Immigration Restriction Act 1901 (Cth) (“the 1901 Act”)[91]. Section 7 thereof stated:

“Every prohibited immigrant entering or found within the Commonwealth in contravention or evasion of this Act shall be guilty of an offence against this Act, and shall be liable upon summary conviction to imprisonment for not more than six months, and in addition to or substitution for such imprisonment shall be liable pursuant to any order of the Minister to be deported from the Commonwealth.

Provided that the imprisonment shall cease for the purpose of deportation, or if the offender finds two approved sureties each in the sum of Fifty pounds for his leaving the Commonwealth within one month.”

As enacted in 1958, s 27 of the Act continued this pattern. That provision eventually became s 77 of the Act, but this was repealed by s 17 of the Migration Reform Act 1992 (Cth) (“the 1992 Act”). It has not been replaced[92].”

Want a bit of icing on the cake.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/FCA/2004/1267.html?query...

“30 It is important to emphasise that the client did not escape from custody. It would have been an offence for him to have done so: see 197A of the Act. He was released from detention pursuant to a court order. Neither was he committing or proposing to commit an offence simply because he was taking steps to avoid being detained. As Gummow J indicated in Al-Kateb at [86] ff, the current Migration Act, unlike its precursors, does not make it an offence for an unlawful non-citizen to enter or to be within Australia in contravention of, or in evasion of, the Act.

31 Further, as Hayne J observed in Al-Kateb at [207]-[208] the description of a person’s immigration status as “unlawful” serves as no more than a reference to a non-citizen not having a “valid permission to enter and remain in Australia”. The use of the term “unlawful” does not as such refer to a breach of a law.”

One would think the people could bother to read the material exposing the big lie of “unlawful” and “illegal” instead of simply shooting the messengers.


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Re: Article 31 UN Refugee Convention - read it!!
Reply #33 - Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:24pm
 
99.9% illegals? 99% illegals?
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Re: Article 31 UN Refugee Convention - read it!!
Reply #34 - Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:27pm
 
99.9%
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Re: Article 31 UN Refugee Convention - read it!!
Reply #35 - Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:45pm
 
progressiveslol wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:27pm:
99.9%



Where is the link that says there is 99.9% illegals in Australia and how many of them came by plane and overstay their visa

You made the claim d!ckhead now back it up
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Re: Article 31 UN Refugee Convention - read it!!
Reply #36 - Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:51pm
 
John S wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:45pm:
progressiveslol wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:27pm:
99.9%



Where is the link that says there is 99.9% illegals in Australia and how many of them came by plane and overstay their visa

You made the claim d!ckhead now back it up

If they overstayed their visa, then they would be part of the 99.9% wouldn't they you d!ckhead
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Re: Article 31 UN Refugee Convention - read it!!
Reply #37 - Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:56pm
 
progressiveslol wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:24pm:
99.9% illegals? 99% illegals?



You understand that you can call them illegal but it is still not actually a crime as in it is not actually illegal.

Defined as illegal but actually perfectly legal in fact.
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progressiveslol
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Re: Article 31 UN Refugee Convention - read it!!
Reply #38 - Dec 29th, 2012 at 9:01pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:56pm:
progressiveslol wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:24pm:
99.9% illegals? 99% illegals?



You understand that you can call them illegal but it is still not actually a crime as in it is not actually illegal.
Defined as illegal but actually perfectly legal in fact.

When processed (completed) and not before. I agree.
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John S
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Re: Article 31 UN Refugee Convention - read it!!
Reply #39 - Dec 29th, 2012 at 9:06pm
 
progressiveslol wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:51pm:
John S wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:45pm:
progressiveslol wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:27pm:
99.9%



Where is the link that says there is 99.9% illegals in Australia and how many of them came by plane and overstay their visa

You made the claim d!ckhead now back it up

If they overstayed their visa, then they would be part of the 99.9% wouldn't they you d!ckhead



How many asylum seekers arrived with visa d!ckhead so they are NOT illegal
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progressiveslol
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Re: Article 31 UN Refugee Convention - read it!!
Reply #40 - Dec 29th, 2012 at 9:09pm
 
John S wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 9:06pm:
progressiveslol wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:51pm:
John S wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:45pm:
progressiveslol wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:27pm:
99.9%



Where is the link that says there is 99.9% illegals in Australia and how many of them came by plane and overstay their visa

You made the claim d!ckhead now back it up

If they overstayed their visa, then they would be part of the 99.9% wouldn't they you d!ckhead



How many asylum seekers arrived with visa d!ckhead so they are NOT illegal

Did they overstay d!ckhead and if they didnt overstay, then they are not part of the 99.9% of illegals.
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Maqqa
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14% - that low?!

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Re: Article 31 UN Refugee Convention - read it!!
Reply #41 - Dec 30th, 2012 at 12:05am
 
John S wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 6:56am:
So what part don't you understand?

In sub clause 1 it states in part

coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened

Now tell us how many countries between Afghanistan/Iran/Iraq have sign the UN Refugee Convention


http://www.unhcr.org/protect/PROTECTION/3b73b0d63.pdf

More than 10 in any direction they want to head with Australia the furthest away

Therefore these people are country shopping

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Maqqa
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14% - that low?!

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Re: Article 31 UN Refugee Convention - read it!!
Reply #42 - Dec 30th, 2012 at 12:09am
 
Dnarever wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:56pm:
progressiveslol wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:24pm:
99.9% illegals? 99% illegals?



You understand that you can call them illegal but it is still not actually a crime as in it is not actually illegal.

Defined as illegal but actually perfectly legal in fact.


It is a crime - the Migration Act is very specific about the punishment

There is a penalty - deportation!!

The asylum applicable just delays the process.

Happy to quote specific sections but then you'll have to admit you are stupid. This is the punishment for not reading before making stupid comments like yours
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Maqqa
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14% - that low?!

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Re: Article 31 UN Refugee Convention - read it!!
Reply #43 - Dec 30th, 2012 at 12:14am
 
progressiveslol wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 9:01pm:
Dnarever wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:56pm:
progressiveslol wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 8:24pm:
99.9% illegals? 99% illegals?



You understand that you can call them illegal but it is still not actually a crime as in it is not actually illegal.
Defined as illegal but actually perfectly legal in fact.

When processed (completed) and not before. I agree.



when processed and found to be a genuine refugee - their illegal status changes to refugee

otherwise their illegal status remains - DEPORTATION
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Maqqa
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14% - that low?!

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Re: Article 31 UN Refugee Convention - read it!!
Reply #44 - Dec 30th, 2012 at 12:18am
 
John S wrote on Dec 29th, 2012 at 7:48pm:
Provided that the imprisonment shall cease for the purpose of deportation, or if the offender finds two approved sureties each in the sum of Fifty pounds for his leaving the Commonwealth within one month.”



When did Australia stopped using "Pounds"

You can always tell how credible the lefties are when they quote something like this
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