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Embarrassment for the climate alarmists (Read 15653 times)
cods
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Re: Embarrassment for the climate alarmists
Reply #135 - Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:23pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:12pm:
In August this year - when the North Pole is free of ice -

Longweekend will be forced to recant his climate change denials.




lets hope someone puts this prediction on ICE>. ooops..we wouldnt want to forget it..

I dont come into these threads often.. not being an expert on the subject you understand...its a shame because neither is anyone else that comes into these forums its all about whom you believe... got nothing whatever to do with science..anymore than the ice melting has...

if science could stop the ice melting dont you think we would have stopped it by now??????


as for little old you and me stopping it... thats funny!

let nature take its course.... much easier to deal with..if we try to fight it we will lose... thats another prediction..
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gold_medal
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Re: Embarrassment for the climate alarmists
Reply #136 - Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:24pm
 
Joint letter to NASA Administrator blasts agency’s policy of ignoring empirical evidence

HOUSTON, TX – April 10, 2012.

49 former NASA scientists and astronauts sent a letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden last week admonishing the agency for it’s role in advocating a high degree of certainty that man-made CO2 is a major cause of climate change while neglecting empirical evidence that calls the theory into question.

The group, which includes seven Apollo astronauts and two former directors of NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston, are dismayed over the failure of NASA, and specifically the Goddard Institute For Space Studies (GISS), to make an objective assessment of all available scientific data on climate change. They charge that NASA is relying too heavily on complex climate models that have proven scientifically inadequate in predicting climate only one or two decades in advance.

H. Leighton Steward, chairman of the non-profit Plants Need CO2, noted that many of the former NASA scientists harbored doubts about the significance of the C02-climate change theory and have concerns over NASA’s advocacy on the issue. While making presentations in late 2011 to many of the signatories of the letter, Steward realized that the NASA scientists should make their concerns known to NASA and the GISS.

“These American heroes – the astronauts that took to space and the scientists and engineers that put them there – are simply stating their concern over NASA’s extreme advocacy for an unproven theory,” said Leighton Steward. “There’s a concern that if it turns out that CO2 is not a major cause of climate change, NASA will have put the reputation of NASA, NASA’s current and former employees, and even the very reputation of science itself at risk of public ridicule and distrust.”

Select excerpts from the letter:

■“The unbridled advocacy of CO2 being the major cause of climate change is unbecoming of NASA’s history of making an objective assessment of all available scientific data prior to making decisions or public statements.”
■“We believe the claims by NASA and GISS, that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated.”
■“We request that NASA refrain from including unproven and unsupported remarks in its future releases and websites on this subject.”

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progressiveslol
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Re: Embarrassment for the climate alarmists
Reply #137 - Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:24pm
 
gold_medal wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:11pm:
MOTR wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:01pm:
gold_medal wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 5:59pm:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204301404577171531838421366.html

read it and learn. and signed by ACTUAL CLIMATE SCIENTISTS


How about you link us to their peer reviewed papers.


How about you just read the articl instead?

I think he likes pal-review because he doesnt think the weight of the peers in your link is worth anything.

Now if they were a bunch of pals instead and they were saying the opposite, then you would be on a winner.
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gold_medal
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Re: Embarrassment for the climate alarmists
Reply #138 - Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:24pm
 
[b]The full text of the letter:

March 28, 2012

The Honorable Charles Bolden, Jr.
NASA Administrator
NASA Headquarters
Washington, D.C. 20546-0001

Dear Charlie,

We, the undersigned, respectfully request that NASA and the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) refrain from including unproven remarks in public releases and websites. We believe the claims by NASA and GISS, that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated, especially when considering thousands of years of empirical data. With hundreds of well-known climate scientists and tens of thousands of other scientists publicly declaring their disbelief in the catastrophic forecasts, coming particularly from the GISS leadership, it is clear that the science is NOT settled.

The unbridled advocacy of CO2 being the major cause of climate change is unbecoming of NASA’s history of making an objective assessment of all available scientific data prior to making decisions or public statements.

As former NASA employees, we feel that NASA’s advocacy of an extreme position, prior to a thorough study of the possible overwhelming impact of natural climate drivers is inappropriate. We request that NASA refrain from including unproven and unsupported remarks in its future releases and websites on this subject. At risk is damage to the exemplary reputation of NASA, NASA’s current or former scientists and employees, and even the reputation of science itself.

For additional information regarding the science behind our concern, we recommend that you contact Harrison Schmitt or Walter Cunningham, or others they can recommend to you.

Thank you for considering this request.

Sincerely,

(Attached signatures)

CC: Mr. John Grunsfeld, Associate Administrator for Science

CC: Ass Mr. Chris Scolese, Director, Goddard Space Flight Center

Ref: Letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden, dated 3-26-12, regarding a request for NASA to refrain from making unsubstantiated claims that human produced CO2 is having a catastrophic impact on climate change.

/s/ Jack Barneburg, Jack – JSC, Space Shuttle Structures, Engineering Directorate, 34 years

/s/ Larry Bell – JSC, Mgr. Crew Systems Div., Engineering Directorate, 32 years

/s/ Dr. Donald Bogard – JSC, Principal Investigator, Science Directorate, 41 years

/s/ Jerry C. Bostick – JSC, Principal Investigator, Science Directorate, 23 years

/s/ Dr. Phillip K. Chapman – JSC, Scientist – astronaut, 5 years

/s/ Michael F. Collins, JSC, Chief, Flight Design and Dynamics Division, MOD, 41 years

/s/ Dr. Kenneth Cox – JSC, Chief Flight Dynamics Div., Engr. Directorate, 40 years

/s/ Walter Cunningham – JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 7, 8 years

/s/ Dr. Donald M. Curry – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Leading Edge, Thermal Protection Sys., Engr. Dir., 44 years

/s/ Leroy Day – Hdq. Deputy Director, Space Shuttle Program, 19 years

/s/ Dr. Henry P. Decell, Jr. – JSC, Chief, Theory & Analysis Office, 5 years

/s/Charles F. Deiterich – JSC, Mgr., Flight Operations Integration, MOD, 30 years

/s/ Dr. Harold Doiron – JSC, Chairman, Shuttle Pogo Prevention Panel, 16 years

/s/ Charles Duke – JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 16, 10 years

/s/ Anita Gale

/s/ Grace Germany – JSC, Program Analyst, 35 years

/s/ Ed Gibson – JSC, Astronaut Skylab 4, 14 years

/s/ Richard Gordon – JSC, Astronaut, Gemini Xi, Apollo 12, 9 years

/s/ Gerald C. Griffin – JSC, Apollo Flight Director, and Director of Johnson Space Center, 22 years

/s/ Thomas M. Grubbs – JSC, Chief, Aircraft Maintenance and Engineering Branch, 31 years

/s/ Thomas J. Harmon

/s/ David W. Heath – JSC, Reentry Specialist, MOD, 30 years

/s/ Miguel A. Hernandez, Jr. – JSC, Flight crew training and operations, 3 years

/s/ James R. Roundtree – JSC Branch Chief, 26 years

/s/ Enoch Jones – JSC, Mgr. SE&I, Shuttle Program Office, 26 years

/s/ Dr. Joseph Kerwin – JSC, Astronaut, Skylab 2, Director of Space and Life Sciences, 22 years

/s/ Jack Knight – JSC, Chief, Advanced Operations and Development Division, MOD, 40 years

/s/ Dr. Christopher C. Kraft – JSC, Apollo Flight Director and Director of Johnson Space Center, 24 years

/s/ Paul C. Kramer – JSC, Ass.t for Planning Aeroscience and Flight Mechanics Div., Egr. Dir., 34 years

/s/ Alex (Skip) Larsen

/s/ Dr. Lubert Leger – JSC, Ass’t. Chief Materials Division, Engr. Directorate, 30 years

/s/ Dr. Humbolt C. Mandell – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Program Control and Advance Programs, 40 years

/s/ Donald K. McCutchen – JSC, Project Engineer – Space Shuttle and ISS Program Offices, 33 years

/s/ Thomas L. (Tom) Moser – Hdq. Dep. Assoc. Admin. & Director, Space Station Program, 28 years

/s/ Dr. George Mueller – Hdq., Assoc. Adm., Office of Space Flight, 6 years

/s/ Tom Ohesorge

/s/ James Peacock – JSC, Apollo and Shuttle Program Office, 21 years

/s/ Richard McFarland – JSC, Mgr. Motion Simulators, 28 years

/s/ Joseph E. Rogers – JSC, Chief, Structures and Dynamics Branch, Engr. Directorate,40 years

/s/ Bernard J. Rosenbaum – JSC, Chief Engineer, Propulsion and Power Division, Engr. Dir., 48 years

/s/ Dr. Harrison (Jack) Schmitt – JSC, Astronaut Apollo 17, 10 years

/s/ Gerard C. Shows – JSC, Asst. Manager, Quality Assurance, 30 years

/s/ Kenneth Suit – JSC, Ass’t Mgr., Systems Integration, Space Shuttle, 37 years

/s/ Robert F. Thompson – JSC, Program Manager, Space Shuttle, 44 years/s/ Frank Van Renesselaer – Hdq., Mgr. Shuttle Solid Rocket Bo
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gold_medal
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Re: Embarrassment for the climate alarmists
Reply #139 - Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:25pm
 
an impressive list of names at the end of that letter.
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rabbitoh07
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Re: Embarrassment for the climate alarmists
Reply #140 - Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:32pm
 
gold_medal wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:25pm:
an impressive list of names at the end of that letter.

We are still waiting for you to explain to us why you are incapable of making an arguement without resorting to telling lies?

Why did you lie about the decrease of glacial mass balance?

And we are still waiting for you to explain why you think the earth has not warmed for 16 years - when the hottest year ever recorded was only 3 years ago.

And why did you claim that the MWP was 3-4 degrees warmer globally than today?  Not that that statement is relevant to the discussion in any way - but I am curious...Any evidence to support that?  Or just another lie?

Why do you keep running away and posting opinion pieces?
How about you explain why you need to lie?
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rabbitoh07
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Re: Embarrassment for the climate alarmists
Reply #141 - Jan 5th, 2013 at 8:46pm
 
cods wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:23pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:12pm:
In August this year - when the North Pole is free of ice -

Longweekend will be forced to recant his climate change denials.




lets hope someone puts this prediction on ICE>. ooops..we wouldnt want to forget it..

I dont come into these threads often.. not being an expert on the subject you understand...its a shame because neither is anyone else that comes into these forums its all about whom you believe... got nothing whatever to do with science..anymore than the ice melting has...

if science could stop the ice melting dont you think we would have stopped it by now??????


as for little old you and me stopping it... thats funny!

let nature take its course.... much easier to deal with..if we try to fight it we will lose... thats another prediction..

Yes.  That is an excellent suggestion.  And it would be better able to takes it's course if we reduced the amount of anthropogenic greenhouse gasses being spewed into the atmosphere
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: Embarrassment for the climate alarmists
Reply #142 - Jan 6th, 2013 at 12:01am
 
rabbitoh07 wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 8:46pm:
cods wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:23pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:12pm:
In August this year - when the North Pole is free of ice -

Longweekend will be forced to recant his climate change denials.




lets hope someone puts this prediction on ICE>. ooops..we wouldnt want to forget it..

I dont come into these threads often.. not being an expert on the subject you understand...its a shame because neither is anyone else that comes into these forums its all about whom you believe... got nothing whatever to do with science..anymore than the ice melting has...

if science could stop the ice melting dont you think we would have stopped it by now??????


as for little old you and me stopping it... thats funny!

let nature take its course.... much easier to deal with..if we try to fight it we will lose... thats another prediction..

Yes.  That is an excellent suggestion.  And it would be better able to takes it's course if we reduced the amount of anthropogenic greenhouse gasses being spewed into the atmosphere

CODS BELIEVES NATURE IS REGULATED 'FREE MARKETS' !!!!

DADDY LOVERS ONLY LISTEN TO DADDY!!  Shocked Shocked Shocked
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: Embarrassment for the climate alarmists
Reply #143 - Jan 6th, 2013 at 12:07am
 
rabbitoh07 wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:32pm:
gold_medal wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:25pm:
an impressive list of names at the end of that letter.

We are still waiting for you to explain to us why you are incapable of making an arguement without resorting to telling lies?

Why did you lie about the decrease of glacial mass balance?

And we are still waiting for you to explain why you think the earth has not warmed for 16 years - when the hottest year ever recorded was only 3 years ago.

And why did you claim that the MWP was 3-4 degrees warmer globally than today?  Not that that statement is relevant to the discussion in any way - but I am curious...Any evidence to support that?  Or just another lie?

Why do you keep running away and posting opinion pieces?
How about you explain why you need to lie?

THE ANSWER IS: GOLD MEDAL LOVES CRACK AND WILL DO ANYTHING FOR IT!

IN OTHER WORDS GOLD MEDAL IS A CRACK W______!!   Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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MOTR
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Re: Embarrassment for the climate alarmists
Reply #144 - Jan 6th, 2013 at 4:02am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:01pm:
rabbitoh07 wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 5:53pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 5:49pm:
rabbitoh07 wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 5:44pm:
Why exactly is it that you are incapable of making an arguement without resorting to lies?
We both know the answer to that, don't we.


Because lies are the only thing that AGW alarmists understand?

Undecided

Well, lies and propaganda designed to frighten them into submission.

So...this explains why Gold Medal told lies about glacial mass balance?!?!

Back in your box Greggery.
You have nothing to contribute here.



He's dealing with someone who relies on colourful little graphs, shonky "science", and outright lies as a basis for an "argument".

One can hardly blame him for lowering himself to your level.

I'm sure if you were ever to come up with some credible, reliable evidence he may respond with something similar.

Until then, he's just pandering to the generally low intellect of the AGW alarmists (and doing a fine job).


You'll have to remind me of your last substantive argument. All you've got boils down to semantics.
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« Last Edit: Jan 6th, 2013 at 4:13am by MOTR »  

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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MOTR
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Re: Embarrassment for the climate alarmists
Reply #145 - Jan 6th, 2013 at 4:06am
 
gold_medal wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:25pm:
an impressive list of names at the end of that letter.


That was the intent, goldie. I guess you can tell us the collective amount of time these particular gentlemen have spent researching climate science. Perhaps you could link us to their most influential papers.
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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gold_medal
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Re: Embarrassment for the climate alarmists
Reply #146 - Jan 6th, 2013 at 7:59am
 
MOTR wrote on Jan 6th, 2013 at 4:06am:
gold_medal wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:25pm:
an impressive list of names at the end of that letter.


That was the intent, goldie. I guess you can tell us the collective amount of time these particular gentlemen have spent researching climate science. Perhaps you could link us to their most influential papers.


good grief MOTR... has your critical reasoning thrown a piston or something??? do you think that a professor of climatology might not have published a paper on the topic? Or perhaps the head of climate research at the federal govt might somewhere written something?

and you have inadvertently proven my point. it is not about the science per se but about the integrity, intelligence and ethics of the AGW alarmists/hysterics. to question the credentials, experience and integrity of this group of very respected scientists casts a long shadow over yourself. But do not feel picked on. You are in good company. You hysterics do it all the time. You question, criticise and ridicule ANYONE - absolutely anyone - who dares question the orthodoxy. Nobel prize winner? your opinion doesnt matter.

its a really bad look.
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rabbitoh07
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Re: Embarrassment for the climate alarmists
Reply #147 - Jan 6th, 2013 at 9:08am
 
gold_medal wrote on Jan 6th, 2013 at 7:59am:
MOTR wrote on Jan 6th, 2013 at 4:06am:
[quote author=gold_medal link=1356751940/139#139 date=1357374315]an impressive list of names at the end of that letter.


That was the intent, goldie. I guess you can tell us the collective amount of time these particular gentlemen have spent researching climate science. Perhaps you could link us to their most influential papers.


gold_medal wrote on Jan 6th, 2013 at 7:59am:
good grief MOTR... has your critical reasoning thrown a piston or something??? do you think that a professor of climatology might not have published a paper on the topic? Or perhaps the head of climate research at the federal govt might somewhere written something?

You would think.  But where is the "professor of climatology" on that list?  They all seem to be NASA engineers or astronauts.

So can you please answer the question that was asked of you?  Can tell us the collective amount of time these particular gentlemen have spent researching climate science. Perhaps you could link us to their most influential papers



gold_medal wrote on Jan 6th, 2013 at 7:59am:
and you have inadvertently proven my point. it is not about the science per se but about the integrity, intelligence and ethics of the AGW alarmists/hysterics. to question the credentials, experience and integrity of this group of very respected scientists casts a long shadow over yourself. But do not feel picked on. You are in good company. You hysterics do it all the time. You question, criticise and ridicule ANYONE - absolutely anyone - who dares question the orthodoxy. Nobel prize winner? your opinion doesnt matter.

its a really bad look.


So why do you tell lies?

That is not a good look either is it.  You cannot make a valid argument - so you tell lies.  ANd when accusations of lying are brought up - you try to change the subject.


We are still waiting for you to explain to us why you are incapable of making an arguement without resorting to telling lies?

Why did you lie about the decrease of glacial mass balance?

And we are still waiting for you to explain why you think the earth has not warmed for 16 years - when the hottest year ever recorded was only 3 years ago.

And why did you claim that the MWP was 3-4 degrees warmer globally than today?  Not that that statement is relevant to the discussion in any way - but I am curious...Any evidence to support that?  Or just another lie?

How about some answers before you post more letters from astronauts?
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Re: Embarrassment for the climate alarmists
Reply #148 - Jan 6th, 2013 at 9:36am
 
gold_medal wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:24pm:
Joint letter to NASA Administrator blasts agency’s policy of ignoring empirical evidence

HOUSTON, TX – April 10, 2012.

49 former NASA scientists and astronauts sent a letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden last week admonishing the agency for it’s role in advocating a high degree of certainty that man-made CO2 is a major cause of climate change while neglecting empirical evidence that calls the theory into question.

The group, which includes seven Apollo astronauts and two former directors of NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston, are dismayed over the failure of NASA, and specifically the Goddard Institute For Space Studies (GISS), to make an objective assessment of all available scientific data on climate change. They charge that NASA is relying too heavily on complex climate models that have proven scientifically inadequate in predicting climate only one or two decades in advance.

H. Leighton Steward, chairman of the non-profit Plants Need CO2, noted that many of the former NASA scientists harbored doubts about the significance of the C02-climate change theory and have concerns over NASA’s advocacy on the issue. While making presentations in late 2011 to many of the signatories of the letter, Steward realized that the NASA scientists should make their concerns known to NASA and the GISS.

“These American heroes – the astronauts that took to space and the scientists and engineers that put them there – are simply stating their concern over NASA’s extreme advocacy for an unproven theory,” said Leighton Steward. “There’s a concern that if it turns out that CO2 is not a major cause of climate change, NASA will have put the reputation of NASA, NASA’s current and former employees, and even the very reputation of science itself at risk of public ridicule and distrust.”

Select excerpts from the letter:

■“The unbridled advocacy of CO2 being the major cause of climate change is unbecoming of NASA’s history of making an objective assessment of all available scientific data prior to making decisions or public statements.”
■“We believe the claims by NASA and GISS, that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated.”
■“We request that NASA refrain from including unproven and unsupported remarks in its future releases and websites on this subject.”

do you like this?



Quote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/11/nasa-global-warming-letter-astronauts_n...

What does NASA say?

“NASA sponsors research into many areas of cutting-edge scientific inquiry, including the relationship between carbon dioxide and climate," the agency's chief scientist, Dr. Waleed Abdalati, told The Huffington Post in an email. "As an agency, NASA does not draw conclusions and issue 'claims' about research findings. We support open scientific inquiry and discussion...If the authors of this letter disagree with specific scientific conclusions made public by NASA scientists, we encourage them to join the debate in the scientific literature or public forums rather than restrict any discourse.”




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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Re: Embarrassment for the climate alarmists
Reply #149 - Jan 6th, 2013 at 10:23am
 
gold_medal wrote on Jan 5th, 2013 at 6:25pm:
an impressive list of names at the end of that letter.


Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

It looks impressive but it actually isn't

Quote:
The Signatories

Obviously this letter first gained attention because the signatories are former NASA employees.  They are being touted as "top astronauts, scientists, and engineers" and "NASA experts, with more than 1000 years of combined professional experience."  Okay, but in what fields does their expertise lie?

Based on the job titles listed in the letter signatures, by my count they include 23 administrators, 8 astronauts, 7 engineers, 5 technicians, and 4 scientists/mathematicians of one sort or another (none of those sorts having the slightest relation to climate science).  Amongst the signatories and their 1,000 years of combined professional experience, that appears to include a grand total of zero hours of climate research experience, and zero peer-reviewed climate science papers.


The 49 former NASA employees are also a pretty unimpressive number

Quote:
It's worth noting that their numbers are revealed as quite unimpressive.  For example, over 18,000 people currently work for NASA.  Without even considering the pool of retired NASA employees (all signatories of this list are former NASA employees).


This letter, as these letters always do, has gone viral in the climate denial blogosphere, and even in the climate denial mainstream media (Fox News).  But why exactly is this letter being treated as major news?  That is something of a mystery.  Or it would be, if the behavior of the climate denial community weren't so predictable.
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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.
 
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