MOTR wrote on Jan 1^st, 2013 at 5:47pm:

The reason it should be important is because the graph is trying to represent greenhouse gases. H2O is a greenhouse gas. The major GHG. The importance factor becomes clear when you consider the earth loses more heat, the hotter the earth is. So if you are going to try and represent the greenhouse gases, you would need to include all so we can see what all have been doing over a time period.

Here is information on a good correlation for heat loss dependant on temperature.

Temperature Dependence of the Earth’s Outgoing Energy

I have been involved in some pretty extensive discussions with the TRCS group over the past few weeks.  The posts lately have been offshoots of that discussion.  The following one is one that I am putting together for that team as well, enjoy.

What determines how quickly the Earth loses energy?  There is a simple answer and a complex answer to that.  Since the Earth can only lose energy to space by infra-red (IR) transmission, the simple answer is that the Earth’s temperature determines the rate of energy loss since it is temperature that determines the intensity of the IR transmission as shown in the Stefen-Boltzmann Law http://theinconvenientskeptic.com/2010/11/radiative-heat-transfer-medium-overvie....

more info at site
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What this indicates is that for each 1K increase in temperature, there will be an associated 2.2 W/m^2 increase in the OLR.  There can be no more an effective feedback mechanism than this for regulating the Earth’s temperature.  There are many reasons for this, but the best is simplicity.  The warmer the Earth is, the faster it loses energy (which means it cools down faster).

Many warmists have noted that the annual change in OLR is smaller than the calibration error for measurement device (spaced based satellite in this case).  Fortunately there is no need to depend on the overall annual data when all that is needed is to look at monthly data and build from the monthly change in temperature and OLR.

Based on the OLR measurements, the Earth was losing 2.6 W/m^2 more over the 5 year period from 2007-2011 than it did in the 5 year period from 1979-1983.  The satellite temperature difference for those two periods show that the later period was 0.27 °C warmer.  Based on the easily proven temperature dependency of the OLR, there is no reason to believe that the difference is satellite calibration error (although that doesn’t mean there is none).

While the Earth has been warmer over the past 10 years than it was 30 years ago, it is also losing energy at a higher rate, even though the CO2 level is higher now.  Energy is what matters and if the Earth is losing it faster now than ever before (based on an entire 34 years of satellite data), then it doesn’t look like CO2 is doing a very good job at slowing the rate of energy loss.  Conversely it appears that the tried and true Stefen-Boltzmann law is working just fine.

http://theinconvenientskeptic.com/2012/08/temperature-dependence-of-the-earths-o...

MOTR wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 7:11am:

Not if. OLR is rising, co2 is rising. What on earth is co2 doing if it isnt blocking the extra heat. Remember we are only talking a small rise in temp so far.

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 9:26pm:

oh dear. You better go right over there and straighten that guy up. You sound righ on it lol

I suggest god forbid, wikipedia to get yourself up to speed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan%E2%80%93Boltzmann_law#Temperature_of_the_Ear...

H2O does not simply fall out as rain. It has to be transformed from a gas. That is not simple. Your explanation does nothing to explain the difference from current h2o levels compared to greater h2o levels. Nothing at all.

You saying water vapour is irrelevent is astounding.

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 9:26pm:

==>>>> DOCUMENT SHOCK- THE BORN TO RULERS ARE SUCH TRYHARDS!

In am keeping a dossier of negative impacts of climate policy on the poor, i.e. rising cost of energy, food ad water...no smoke screen will hide the truth....Any attempt to make the poor pay the price for the rich is being meticulously noted...

gold_medal wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 11:15am:

But temeperatures ARE rising.

The planet IS getting warmer.

Each decade is warmer than the previous decade.

That is what "getting warmer" means.

Theory says the planets temperature should rise - an that is exactly what is happening.  This is evidenced not only though surface temperature measurements, but also in ocean temperatures, glacial mass balance decrease, arctic sea ice decrease and sea level rise.


The plant is unambiguously warming.

Denying it is silly

progressiveslol wrote on Jan 5^th, 2013 at 12:19pm:

The planet IS getting warmer.

Each decade is warmer than the previous decade.

That is what "getting warmer" means.

Theory says the planets temperature should rise - an that is exactly what is happening.  This is evidenced not only though surface temperature measurements, but also in ocean temperatures, glacial mass balance decrease, arctic sea ice decrease and sea level rise.


The planet is unambiguously warming.

Denying it is silly.  Believing what you read in a Daily Mail article by David Rose is even sillier

progressiveslol wrote on Jan 5^th, 2013 at 12:38pm:



Co2 increases in the atmospher is primarily from pumping Co2 into the atmosphere? How is this the effect and not the cause?

What do you believe is the cause of this effect - Increased Co2 levels in the atmosphere?

Obviously its not from the millions of litres we pump into the atmosphere each week.

This is a dumb argument to try and make.