Australian Politics Forum - Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax

Dnarever

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Re: Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax
Reply #30 - Dec 30^th, 2012 at 9:02pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 8:57pm:

There was no mandate for a carbon tax.

The only party who went into the last election in favor of a carbon tax were the Greens - and those fringe crackpots got 1 in 10 people voting for them.

Whether you like it or not, Julia Gillard declared she wouldn't bring in a carbon tax before the election - and after the election she did.

I am politically neutral on the subject to be honest but the above is simple fact.

Why exactly would a leaked internal Labor memo state that the PM "has a credibility issue with the public on the carbon tax statement that we need to overcome" if it weren't true?

In 2007 election both Labor and the Liberals had carbon pricing in their platform. There was a mandate to introduce a price.

They negotiated a system which was close to the one that Howard took to the election and Abbott was 100% behind.

Abbott opposed that policy, the policy to introduce the clearly mandated system.

A mandate is only valid when the Liberals believe thay hold one.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax
Reply #31 - Dec 30^th, 2012 at 9:03pm

I'm sorry but the carbon tax revenue raising was none more than wealth re-distribution in a sneaky form.

Tell me, why exactly would I receive nothing in compensation but see my bills rise as a result of the tax and yet others lower than me receive compensation to pay it - paid for out of my taxes?

Seem fair?

Then again, since when did the Labor party care about the middle income family though eh?

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax
Reply #32 - Dec 30^th, 2012 at 9:04pm

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 9:02pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 8:57pm:

There was no mandate for a carbon tax.

The only party who went into the last election in favor of a carbon tax were the Greens - and those fringe crackpots got 1 in 10 people voting for them.

Whether you like it or not, Julia Gillard declared she wouldn't bring in a carbon tax before the election - and after the election she did.

I am politically neutral on the subject to be honest but the above is simple fact.

Why exactly would a leaked internal Labor memo state that the PM "has a credibility issue with the public on the carbon tax statement that we need to overcome" if it weren't true?

In 2007 election both Labor and the Liberals had carbon pricing in their platform. There was a mandate to introduce a price.

They negotiated a system which was close to the one that Howard took to the election and Abbott was 100% behind.

Abbott opposed that policy, the policy to introduce the clearly mandated system.

A mandate is only valid when the Liberals believe thay hold one.

So if you believe there was a mandate, why then do you think the internal Labor memos indicate the opposite?

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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progressiveslol

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Re: Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax
Reply #33 - Dec 30^th, 2012 at 9:06pm

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 8:51pm:

To oppose the mandate of a government elected on a platform of abolishing the Carbon Tax would be as reprehensible as the Gillard Government’s action to introduce a Carbon Tax without a mandate from the people.

If Labor and the Greens combine to block the express will of the Australian people, a Coalition Government would seek dissolution of both Houses of Parliament.
We would then introduce the legislation to abolish the Carbon Tax at a subsequent Joint Sitting of the Parliament.

Funny that he had no problem with opposing the mandate to price carbon in 2009/10, wonder if he understands that that was also reprehensible.

I can't wait to see him go to water.

Apparently a carbon tax was the best option when it was Abbott's idea, He clearly does not care about the carbon price its just a vehicle to gain power.

Now you are getting it. The carbon tax was a greens policy and gillard used it to sell out the people as a vehicle to gain power.

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John Smith

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Re: Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax
Reply #34 - Dec 31^st, 2012 at 10:28am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 9:04pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 9:02pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 8:57pm:

There was no mandate for a carbon tax.

The only party who went into the last election in favor of a carbon tax were the Greens - and those fringe crackpots got 1 in 10 people voting for them.

Whether you like it or not, Julia Gillard declared she wouldn't bring in a carbon tax before the election - and after the election she did.

I am politically neutral on the subject to be honest but the above is simple fact.

Why exactly would a leaked internal Labor memo state that the PM "has a credibility issue with the public on the carbon tax statement that we need to overcome" if it weren't true?

In 2007 election both Labor and the Liberals had carbon pricing in their platform. There was a mandate to introduce a price.

They negotiated a system which was close to the one that Howard took to the election and Abbott was 100% behind.

Abbott opposed that policy, the policy to introduce the clearly mandated system.

A mandate is only valid when the Liberals believe thay hold one.

So if you believe there was a mandate, why then do you think the internal Labor memos indicate the opposite?

if the ALP has a credibility issue is because of morons like you twisting the facts to suit your argument .... what has their credibility issue got to do with any mandate?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax Reply #35 - Dec 31^st, 2012 at 10:47am Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 9:02pm: In 2007 election both Labor and the Liberals had carbon pricing in their platform. There was a mandate to introduce a price. If what you say is true - then you can blame Rudd for Ratifying Kyoto Therefore Abbott was trying to fix Rudd's mistakes
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Maqqa

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Re: Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax
Reply #36 - Dec 31^st, 2012 at 11:02am

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 6:19pm:

When Kevin Rudd won the 2007 election he had a mandate to introduce an ETS and negotiated in good faith with Malcolm Turnbull and the Coalition to achieve that outcome

In 2007 - Brendan Nelson was leader. Therefore your comment is not credible.

In 2007 when Rudd won the election - please provide us with this so called "mandate to introduce an ETS and negotiate....."

I have copies of every Policy Document Rudd released in 2007 so lets see you produce the exact wordings of his policy that you believe gave him that MANDATE.

Just to give you a taste that I do have those documents:

This comprehensive plan builds on Federal Labor’s commitment to:

Immediately ratify the Kyoto Protocol;
Set a 20 per cent Renewable Energy Target by 2020;
$8000 rebates for solar power, $1000 rebates for solar hot water systems, $500 rebates for grey water piping and rainwater tanks, $500 rebates for landlords to install insulation and $10,000 in low interest Green loans for solar systems and water and energy savings measures.
Invest $15 million in a Clean Energy Export Strategy;
Invest $20 million in a Clean Energy
Innovation Centre; and
Invest in a Green Car Innovation Fund to develop and build green cars in Australia.

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philperth2010

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Re: Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax
Reply #37 - Dec 31^st, 2012 at 12:15pm

Quote:

Howard wrong taking ETS to 2007 election

Former prime minister John Howard was wrong in taking a policy on an emissions trading scheme (ETS) to the 2007 election, opposition frontbencher Bronwyn Bishop says.

Ms Bishop said Mr Howard had erred in offering a market mechanism to price carbon as a way to lower emissions in the 2007 election.

"Yes he was, in that particular policy," she told Sky News on Thursday.

Both parties has proposed emissions trading schemes as part of their platforms in the election that elected the Kevin Rudd-led Labor party to government.

Ms Bishop said she did not support the coalition's 2007 election promise for an ETS but was in favour of the opposition's direct action policy at last year's election.

"I support the policy that Tony Abbott is putting forward because it is a good thing to do anyway," she said.

"It is a sensible thing to do."

Ms Bishop said the contribution of carbon dioxide emissions to global warming was a moot point.

"It's not something that I believe is the case," she said.

She also questioned humans' contribution to the warming of the planet.

"I don't buy that man is the sole cause of this problem," she said.

"I believe the climate changes continually, and if we have got to do something about it we have got to learn to adapt."

Asked if she was convinced about man's contribution to global warming, Ms Bishop replied:

"No, I'm not ... I said there could be a contribution from mankind.

"I'm perfectly happy to accept that."

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/howard-wrong-taking-ets-to-2007-el...

There is no doubt Tony Abbott refused to honour Kevin Rudd's mandate to introduce an ETS.....The Coalition is also very much in denial about global warming and is only interested in appearing to act on cutting carbon emissions whilst doing SFA!!!

60% of the Coalitions emissions are achieved through storing carbon in soil which....

1. Is not even counted in the protocol so is irrelevant (The ALP will also pursue this policy but does not count it in its targets)

2. Will not achieve the amount of reductions the Coalition claims it will

3. Is underfunded from consolidated revenue

4. Is the most expensive way to reduce emissions

5. The Coalitions targets are based on dubious science that does not hold up to scrutiny

6. Will take a massive bureaucracy to account for the totals and monitor compliance

7. Simply will not work

Direct Action has no way of achieving its intended targets and is based on bullshit.....No wonder Bronwyn Bishop supports it???

Angry

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74534 Gender:	Re: Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax Reply #38 - Dec 31^st, 2012 at 12:22pm Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax the mere though of the coalition with a plan is laughable ....
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Maqqa

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Re: Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax
Reply #39 - Dec 31^st, 2012 at 12:50pm

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 12:15pm:

Quote:

Howard wrong taking ETS to 2007 election

Former prime minister John Howard was wrong in taking a policy on an emissions trading scheme (ETS) to the 2007 election, opposition frontbencher Bronwyn Bishop says.

Ms Bishop said Mr Howard had erred in offering a market mechanism to price carbon as a way to lower emissions in the 2007 election.

"Yes he was, in that particular policy," she told Sky News on Thursday.

Both parties has proposed emissions trading schemes as part of their platforms in the election that elected the Kevin Rudd-led Labor party to government.

Ms Bishop said she did not support the coalition's 2007 election promise for an ETS but was in favour of the opposition's direct action policy at last year's election.

"I support the policy that Tony Abbott is putting forward because it is a good thing to do anyway," she said.

"It is a sensible thing to do."

Ms Bishop said the contribution of carbon dioxide emissions to global warming was a moot point.

"It's not something that I believe is the case," she said.

She also questioned humans' contribution to the warming of the planet.

"I don't buy that man is the sole cause of this problem," she said.

"I believe the climate changes continually, and if we have got to do something about it we have got to learn to adapt."

Asked if she was convinced about man's contribution to global warming, Ms Bishop replied:

"No, I'm not ... I said there could be a contribution from mankind.

"I'm perfectly happy to accept that."

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/howard-wrong-taking-ets-to-2007-el...

There is no doubt Tony Abbott refused to honour Kevin Rudd's mandate to introduce an ETS.....The Coalition is also very much in denial about global warming and is only interested in appearing to act on cutting carbon emissions whilst doing SFA!!!

60% of the Coalitions emissions are achieved through storing carbon in soil which....

1. Is not even counted in the protocol so is irrelevant (The ALP will also pursue this policy but does not count it in its targets)

2. Will not achieve the amount of reductions the Coalition claims it will

3. Is underfunded from consolidated revenue

4. Is the most expensive way to reduce emissions

5. The Coalitions targets are based on dubious science that does not hold up to scrutiny

6. Will take a massive bureaucracy to account for the totals and monitor compliance

7. Simply will not work

Direct Action has no way of achieving its intended targets and is based on bullshit.....No wonder Bronwyn Bishop supports it???

Angry

You said 2007 Election

Show me Labor's 2007 policy document

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax Reply #40 - Dec 31^st, 2012 at 12:55pm Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 9:02pm: In 2007 election both Labor and the Liberals had carbon pricing in their platform. There was a mandate to introduce a price. Show me both LIB and ALP 2007 Policy Document to back your assertion please
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Karnal

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Re: Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax
Reply #41 - Dec 31^st, 2012 at 1:09pm

skippy. wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 5:12pm:

Maqqa wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 4:55pm:

Vic wrote on Dec 30^th, 2012 at 4:43pm:

"the first piece of legislation to be debated in the Parliament will be the repeal of the Carbon Tax."

And when it reaches the senate and is absolutely and positively caned, I will call out Margie to help me, cause those mean senators are hurting poh hubby Grin

You lefties are not only stupid but you are also blind

He said
Quote:

If Labor and the Greens combine to block the express will of the Australian people, a Coalition Government would seek dissolution of both Houses of Parliament.
We would then introduce the legislation to abolish the Carbon Tax at a subsequent Joint Sitting of the Parliament.

A DD election would take years, not months. The new senators elected at the next election don't come in until the middle of the next year for starters, fool
IF and it's a giant IF, phony tony sneaks in at the next election by the time he could call a DD he'd be much more disliked than is now. The punters would have had over a year to see what a dickhead he is. It would be the shortest government in the history of this country, bring it on.

True. Bring it on.

But we all know that this is one election promise Tony Abbott won't keep.

There's no way he'll bother with a double dissoltion election in two year's time, when everyone's long forgotten about the carbon tax.

This issue is not about the carbon tax - it's about the perceived lie. Once the electorate has punished the current government, they won't give a squat about the carbon tax. Even industry is lobbying to price carbon to ensure stability. Abbott would be a complete fool to push on with a dead issue.

And despite what many people say, Tony Abbott is no fool. He knows exactly what he's doing. There will be no back to back elections, and Abbott has no intention of calling one until the time is right.

Unless there's some tricky legislative way to get around parliament, an election is the only way the Libs will be able to repeal the carbon tax.

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philperth2010 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20358 Perth Gender:	Re: Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax Reply #42 - Dec 31^st, 2012 at 1:31pm 54 seconds in Macca.....Kevin Rudd said he would ratify Kyoto and introduce an ETS....Next!!!
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philperth2010

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Re: Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax
Reply #43 - Dec 31^st, 2012 at 1:37pm

Maqqa wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 12:50pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 31^st, 2012 at 12:15pm:

Quote:

Howard wrong taking ETS to 2007 election

Former prime minister John Howard was wrong in taking a policy on an emissions trading scheme (ETS) to the 2007 election, opposition frontbencher Bronwyn Bishop says.

Ms Bishop said Mr Howard had erred in offering a market mechanism to price carbon as a way to lower emissions in the 2007 election.

"Yes he was, in that particular policy," she told Sky News on Thursday.

Both parties has proposed emissions trading schemes as part of their platforms in the election that elected the Kevin Rudd-led Labor party to government.

Ms Bishop said she did not support the coalition's 2007 election promise for an ETS but was in favour of the opposition's direct action policy at last year's election.

"I support the policy that Tony Abbott is putting forward because it is a good thing to do anyway," she said.

"It is a sensible thing to do."

Ms Bishop said the contribution of carbon dioxide emissions to global warming was a moot point.

"It's not something that I believe is the case," she said.

She also questioned humans' contribution to the warming of the planet.

"I don't buy that man is the sole cause of this problem," she said.

"I believe the climate changes continually, and if we have got to do something about it we have got to learn to adapt."

Asked if she was convinced about man's contribution to global warming, Ms Bishop replied:

"No, I'm not ... I said there could be a contribution from mankind.

"I'm perfectly happy to accept that."

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/howard-wrong-taking-ets-to-2007-el...

There is no doubt Tony Abbott refused to honour Kevin Rudd's mandate to introduce an ETS.....The Coalition is also very much in denial about global warming and is only interested in appearing to act on cutting carbon emissions whilst doing SFA!!!

60% of the Coalitions emissions are achieved through storing carbon in soil which....

1. Is not even counted in the protocol so is irrelevant (The ALP will also pursue this policy but does not count it in its targets)

2. Will not achieve the amount of reductions the Coalition claims it will

3. Is underfunded from consolidated revenue

4. Is the most expensive way to reduce emissions

5. The Coalitions targets are based on dubious science that does not hold up to scrutiny

6. Will take a massive bureaucracy to account for the totals and monitor compliance

7. Simply will not work

Direct Action has no way of achieving its intended targets and is based on bullshit.....No wonder Bronwyn Bishop supports it???

Angry

You said 2007 Election

Show me Labor's 2007 policy document

WTF.....The article above refers to the 2007 election where both parties took an ETS to the election.....Are you claiming the ALP did not take an ETS to the 2007 election???

Roll Eyes

I also notice you did not dispute the fact Abbott's direct Action policy is a pile of crap.....At least you know not to debate policies you know you have no chance of defending!!!

Cool

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Our plan to Abolish the Carbon Tax Reply #44 - Dec 31^st, 2012 at 3:02pm You made an accusation phil Now put up the 2007 policy documents that you believe gives Rudd the mandate or shut up
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