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We owe $4.8 trillion (Read 16381 times)
Sir lastnail
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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #135 - Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:29pm
 
Bursting the Bubble on SBS Insight

check out Keen giving Saul Eslake a serve Cheesy LOL



Quote:
Bursting the Bubble

Will a slowing economy lower house prices in Australia?
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The Housing Industry Association says housing affordability is at a 24-year low. Yet economists are divided over whether Australia's troubled economy will work for or against those struggling to buy a home or maintain a mortgage.

Economist Steven Keen has claimed Australia is heading for the worst recession since the Great Depression, and predicts housing prices will drop by over 40 per cent.

The ANZ’s Saul Eslake warns this is a dangerous assumption, while economic journalist Ross Gittins believes we are in uncharted waters, with household debt at an all-time high.

Home owners mortgaged to the hilt, economists, housing and construction representatives, government and opposition meet on Insight to discuss who could benefit from a big economic dip.


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« Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2013 at 3:02pm by Sir lastnail »  

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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #136 - Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:37pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:04pm:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 1:06pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:27am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:21am:
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 8:20am:
Quote:
There were very few economists that predicted the GFC before it hit, Keen was one of them.


Nearly all of them did - hence the very high interest rates. That's what it means when the reserve bank keeps raising interest rates like that - they are trying to get people to stop borrowing. In fact the high interest rates usually trigger the downturn.




Why Did So Many Economists Fail to Predict the Global Financial Crisis, and So Many Policymakers Mishandle It - While Some Saw It All Coming?



Queen Elizabeth asked why the economist's didn't see this coming

In a now famous letter in response to a question by Queen Elizabeth, economists in England explained why no one foresaw the timing, extent and severity of the credit crisis by laying responsibility on the “failure of the collective imagination of many bright people.” (Link to letter, PDF) This answer only begs the question as to why the imagination of so many economists was so limited.

http://ineteconomics.org/financial-crisis-blinders

The answer to the Queen's question was "they didn't want to"

Why didn't they?

They were in denial, the same as many will be when we enter the next phase of the GFC, which will be a hell of a lot worse than what we've experienced already.


Pansi, the fact that the Queen made the same mistake as you does not prove you are right. It just shows that the Queen does not understand macroeconomics either. Even if you don't understand economics, all you had to do was check the front page page of the Australian and you would have known it was on it's way.




Maybe the Queen did see the GFC coming, I certainly did, as early as 2006. The thread went for ages on the Yahoo forum, there were a handful of us who were saying a crash is coming. We were called doomsayers by the righties, until the stockmarket crash of 2008, then......yes you guessed it, they blamed us for it ha! ha!....like we 'willed' it to happen.

Anyway, remember when Bernanke and Obama had to round up the fat cats and call an emergency sitting of parliament, if they didn't get a resolution by the Monday there would have been a catastrophic financial meltdown? Surely you've watched some of the documentaries about this.

They didn't know it was coming in 2008, our own government didn't even know, Keen, who has his eyes on the ball, and some others did.



was longweekend58 aka gold_medal one of those that dismissed the prediction outright just as he does now with the housing market ?



He certainly did, he said we were scare mongers, he's always worn rose coloured glasses. He won't admit a real estate drop of even 10%, let alone 40%, which has already happened at the Gold Coast, because he's hocked up to his eyeballs. He said he mortgaged his house for his water-boy business because house prices double every seven years. Shame they don't.

As close to debt free is the way to go if you want to survive the coming tsunami.
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
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gold_medal
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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #137 - Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:38pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:36am:
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:31am:
Because it doesn't matter. All he has done is taken mainstream economic predictions that anyone could get from the front page of the newspaper, added whatever political spin you want to hear, and you think he is some kind of genius.


what rubbish. Keen predicted the housing slump which hasn't happened yet because labor distorted the market with its hair-brained scams and now you are saying that he copies all of the other economic flunkies who said the complete opposite.

Make up your mind !!


you cant have it both ways. If Keen is a genius then his predictions would have come true but they actually missed by a mile. You cant say that the FHOG was the difference or that it was unpredictable. The notion that the govt would stand idly by and let a housing slump simply happen is also ridiculous. this is what is wrong with both you and Steve Keen. You base your arguments on bitterness and iedology rather than hard fact logic or historical precedence.
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gold_medal
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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #138 - Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:39pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:47am:
FD
Quote:
a fool like Keen


hello -
he is a professor of economics.


big deal. it is his predictive ability in question and he is dead wrong all teh time - just like you, nail and pansi.
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gold_medal
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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #139 - Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:42pm
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 1:06pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:27am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:21am:
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 8:20am:
Quote:
There were very few economists that predicted the GFC before it hit, Keen was one of them.


Nearly all of them did - hence the very high interest rates. That's what it means when the reserve bank keeps raising interest rates like that - they are trying to get people to stop borrowing. In fact the high interest rates usually trigger the downturn.




Why Did So Many Economists Fail to Predict the Global Financial Crisis, and So Many Policymakers Mishandle It - While Some Saw It All Coming?



Queen Elizabeth asked why the economist's didn't see this coming

In a now famous letter in response to a question by Queen Elizabeth, economists in England explained why no one foresaw the timing, extent and severity of the credit crisis by laying responsibility on the “failure of the collective imagination of many bright people.” (Link to letter, PDF) This answer only begs the question as to why the imagination of so many economists was so limited.

http://ineteconomics.org/financial-crisis-blinders

The answer to the Queen's question was "they didn't want to"

Why didn't they?

They were in denial, the same as many will be when we enter the next phase of the GFC, which will be a hell of a lot worse than what we've experienced already.


Pansi, the fact that the Queen made the same mistake as you does not prove you are right. It just shows that the Queen does not understand macroeconomics either. Even if you don't understand economics, all you had to do was check the front page page of the Australian and you would have known it was on it's way.




Maybe the Queen did see the GFC coming, I certainly did, as early as 2006. The thread went for ages on the Yahoo forum, there were a handful of us who were saying a crash is coming. We were called doomsayers by the righties, until the stockmarket crash of 2008, then......yes you guessed it, they blamed us for it ha! ha!....like we 'willed' it to happen.

Anyway, remember when Bernanke and Obama had to round up the fat cats and call an emergency sitting of parliament, if they didn't get a resolution by the Monday there would have been a catastrophic financial meltdown? Surely you've watched some of the documentaries about this.

They didn't know it was coming in 2008, our own government didn't even know, Keen, who has his eyes on the ball, and some others did.



the difference is that you ALWAYS predict doom and gloom. ALWAYS. eventually even you will be 'right'. it is hardly indicative of any predictive ability. you also predicted a 75% drop in house prices and depression for the USA and Europe plus deep long-last recession for Australia. not really a record tpo stand on, is it?
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gold_medal
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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #140 - Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:43pm
 
perceptions_now wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 1:45pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 1:25pm:
It is mainstream economics pansi. It was on the front pages of the newspaper, before it happened.


Really?

Are you saying that the bulk of mainstream Economists called the GFC, before it started?

And, the Queen?


it was discussed all around the world for some time as soon as the sub-prime market collapsed. your memory is short - almost goldfish-like.
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gold_medal
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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #141 - Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:45pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:04pm:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 1:06pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:27am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:21am:
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 8:20am:
Quote:
There were very few economists that predicted the GFC before it hit, Keen was one of them.


Nearly all of them did - hence the very high interest rates. That's what it means when the reserve bank keeps raising interest rates like that - they are trying to get people to stop borrowing. In fact the high interest rates usually trigger the downturn.




Why Did So Many Economists Fail to Predict the Global Financial Crisis, and So Many Policymakers Mishandle It - While Some Saw It All Coming?



Queen Elizabeth asked why the economist's didn't see this coming

In a now famous letter in response to a question by Queen Elizabeth, economists in England explained why no one foresaw the timing, extent and severity of the credit crisis by laying responsibility on the “failure of the collective imagination of many bright people.” (Link to letter, PDF) This answer only begs the question as to why the imagination of so many economists was so limited.

http://ineteconomics.org/financial-crisis-blinders

The answer to the Queen's question was "they didn't want to"

Why didn't they?

They were in denial, the same as many will be when we enter the next phase of the GFC, which will be a hell of a lot worse than what we've experienced already.


Pansi, the fact that the Queen made the same mistake as you does not prove you are right. It just shows that the Queen does not understand macroeconomics either. Even if you don't understand economics, all you had to do was check the front page page of the Australian and you would have known it was on it's way.




Maybe the Queen did see the GFC coming, I certainly did, as early as 2006. The thread went for ages on the Yahoo forum, there were a handful of us who were saying a crash is coming. We were called doomsayers by the righties, until the stockmarket crash of 2008, then......yes you guessed it, they blamed us for it ha! ha!....like we 'willed' it to happen.

Anyway, remember when Bernanke and Obama had to round up the fat cats and call an emergency sitting of parliament, if they didn't get a resolution by the Monday there would have been a catastrophic financial meltdown? Surely you've watched some of the documentaries about this.

They didn't know it was coming in 2008, our own government didn't even know, Keen, who has his eyes on the ball, and some others did.



was longweekend58 aka gold_medal one of those that dismissed the prediction outright just as he does now with the housing market ?


my actual predictrions were:

no recession for australia - correct
slight recession in USA - wrong (it was severe)
no crash in our house market - correct

2.5 out of 3 while you were predicting depression in USA, deep recession here and 40% drop in house prices.  thats 0 out of 3

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gold_medal
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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #142 - Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:48pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:27pm:
perceptions_now wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 1:45pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 1:25pm:
It is mainstream economics pansi. It was on the front pages of the newspaper, before it happened.


Really?

Are you saying that the bulk of mainstream Economists called the GFC, before it started?

And, the Queen?


Sure, just not a language most people understand. But it was in plain English on the front page of the Australian many times. They didn't call it a GFC or give a date or do any of the Nostradamus stuff. Do you recall all the references to the economy 'overheating'? The PM and treasurer were talking about it too.

The whole point of raising interest rates is to slow investment and trigger a downturn as early as possible, before the bubble gets too big.

The Queen is not an economist.

Quote:
IF the RBA wanted to bring on a Recession, it would be raising rates &/or by withdrawing liquidity from the system, which hasn't happened.
That said, raising rates at this point in time, would certainly hasten a Recession, it would also likely tip a Recession into a Depression!


Our RBA, and foreign ones, all raised interest rates in the lead-up to the GFC. To anyone familiar with the lingo, this is economics for 'a downturn is coming.' Their actions helped trigger the GFC. They all lowered rates after the GFC hit.


thats not even a remotely accurate interpretation or even an accurate recal of the facts. Australie was raising its rates because the RBA were about the only people in the country who DIDNT see the GFC coming and acted in the wrong direction. Overseas interest rates were low and going lower which unfortunately didnt give them much leeway to use rates as a stimulatory effect.
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Sir lastnail
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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #143 - Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:49pm
 
gold_medal wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:38pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:36am:
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:31am:
Because it doesn't matter. All he has done is taken mainstream economic predictions that anyone could get from the front page of the newspaper, added whatever political spin you want to hear, and you think he is some kind of genius.


what rubbish. Keen predicted the housing slump which hasn't happened yet because labor distorted the market with its hair-brained scams and now you are saying that he copies all of the other economic flunkies who said the complete opposite.

Make up your mind !!


you cant have it both ways. If Keen is a genius then his predictions would have come true but they actually missed by a mile. You cant say that the FHOG was the difference or that it was unpredictable. The notion that the govt would stand idly by and let a housing slump simply happen is also ridiculous. this is what is wrong with both you and Steve Keen. You base your arguments on bitterness and iedology rather than hard fact logic or historical precedence.


Yes keen got the GFC right and you didn't !!!!

And you can't make a fair prediction about the housing market when the government distorts the market with home owners grants and gives guarantees on bank deposits. You keep missing this valid point.

Watch the Insight program and you can see that housing was already on the downward slope and then when labor got in it tripled the first home buyers scam to keep the bubble from deflating. It's so obvious except to a retard such as yourself. Now today, housing is on the downward slope again just as it was at the start of the GFC and guess what ?? No more easy credit from banks and no more first home buyers scams to prop it up again !!
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Bobby.
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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #144 - Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:50pm
 
gold_medal wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:39pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:47am:
FD
Quote:
a fool like Keen


hello -
he is a professor of economics.


big deal. it is his predictive ability in question and he is dead wrong all teh time - just like you, nail and pansi.



Keen was not wrong - this has all been predicted.

you are forgiven according the divine plan.

namaste
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gold_medal
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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #145 - Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:51pm
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:37pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:04pm:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 1:06pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:27am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:21am:
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 8:20am:
Quote:
There were very few economists that predicted the GFC before it hit, Keen was one of them.


Nearly all of them did - hence the very high interest rates. That's what it means when the reserve bank keeps raising interest rates like that - they are trying to get people to stop borrowing. In fact the high interest rates usually trigger the downturn.




Why Did So Many Economists Fail to Predict the Global Financial Crisis, and So Many Policymakers Mishandle It - While Some Saw It All Coming?



Queen Elizabeth asked why the economist's didn't see this coming

In a now famous letter in response to a question by Queen Elizabeth, economists in England explained why no one foresaw the timing, extent and severity of the credit crisis by laying responsibility on the “failure of the collective imagination of many bright people.” (Link to letter, PDF) This answer only begs the question as to why the imagination of so many economists was so limited.

http://ineteconomics.org/financial-crisis-blinders

The answer to the Queen's question was "they didn't want to"

Why didn't they?

They were in denial, the same as many will be when we enter the next phase of the GFC, which will be a hell of a lot worse than what we've experienced already.


Pansi, the fact that the Queen made the same mistake as you does not prove you are right. It just shows that the Queen does not understand macroeconomics either. Even if you don't understand economics, all you had to do was check the front page page of the Australian and you would have known it was on it's way.




Maybe the Queen did see the GFC coming, I certainly did, as early as 2006. The thread went for ages on the Yahoo forum, there were a handful of us who were saying a crash is coming. We were called doomsayers by the righties, until the stockmarket crash of 2008, then......yes you guessed it, they blamed us for it ha! ha!....like we 'willed' it to happen.

Anyway, remember when Bernanke and Obama had to round up the fat cats and call an emergency sitting of parliament, if they didn't get a resolution by the Monday there would have been a catastrophic financial meltdown? Surely you've watched some of the documentaries about this.

They didn't know it was coming in 2008, our own government didn't even know, Keen, who has his eyes on the ball, and some others did.



was longweekend58 aka gold_medal one of those that dismissed the prediction outright just as he does now with the housing market ?



He certainly did, he said we were scare mongers, he's always worn rose coloured glasses. He won't admit a real estate drop of even 10%, let alone 40%, which has already happened at the Gold Coast, because he's hocked up to his eyeballs. He said he mortgaged his house for his water-boy business because house prices double every seven years. Shame they don't.

As close to debt free is the way to go if you want to survive the coming tsunami.


Pansi, you perdicted a 75% drop and were dead wrong. angry-nail predicted 40% and was also dead wrong. Keen has done the same thing and ALSO been wrong. all that happend was that the market had a correction of 7%. nothing more and nothing even remotely unusual. quoting the goad coast as a an example does yu now help because I can quote areas where prices have risen 30% in the same period. both would be uselss bits of selctively chosen data.
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gold_medal
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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #146 - Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:54pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:49pm:
gold_medal wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:38pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:36am:
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:31am:
Because it doesn't matter. All he has done is taken mainstream economic predictions that anyone could get from the front page of the newspaper, added whatever political spin you want to hear, and you think he is some kind of genius.


what rubbish. Keen predicted the housing slump which hasn't happened yet because labor distorted the market with its hair-brained scams and now you are saying that he copies all of the other economic flunkies who said the complete opposite.

Make up your mind !!


you cant have it both ways. If Keen is a genius then his predictions would have come true but they actually missed by a mile. You cant say that the FHOG was the difference or that it was unpredictable. The notion that the govt would stand idly by and let a housing slump simply happen is also ridiculous. this is what is wrong with both you and Steve Keen. You base your arguments on bitterness and iedology rather than hard fact logic or historical precedence.


Yes keen got the GFC right and you didn't !!!!

And you can't make a fair prediction about the housing market when the government distorts the market with home owners grants and gives guarantees on bank deposits. You keep missing this valid point.

Watch the Insight program and you can see that housing was already on the downward slope and then when labor got in it tripled the first home buyers scam to keep the bubble from deflating. It's so obvious except to a retard such as yourself. Now today, housing is on the downward slope again just as it was at the start of the GFC and guess what ?? No more easy credit from banks and no more first home buyers scams to prop it up again !!


its NOT  a valid point and that IS the point. it is the same argument you made in the IPCC temperature prediction thread.  There you essentially said that the predictions would have been right if not for all the events that made it fail. Govt intervention was always going to happen. Interest rates were always going to drop to protect valuations. do you think the banks are stupid???

you cannot say Keen was right when he has been dead wrong for a very long time. on house prices he has now been dad wrong for over 8 years. hardly a record to be proud of.
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Ex Dame Pansi
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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #147 - Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:55pm
 

gold_medal wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:45pm:
my actual predictrions were:

no recession for australia - correct
slight recession in USA - wrong (it was severe)
no crash in our house market - correct

2.5 out of 3 while you were predicting depression in USA, deep recession here and 40% drop in house prices.  thats 0 out of 3



It aint over yet, baby......by a looooong shot!

Enter the great recession/depression, it's a comin'

You can't tally the scores until the game's over.
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
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gold_medal
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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #148 - Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:56pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:49pm:
gold_medal wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:38pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:36am:
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 10:31am:
Because it doesn't matter. All he has done is taken mainstream economic predictions that anyone could get from the front page of the newspaper, added whatever political spin you want to hear, and you think he is some kind of genius.


what rubbish. Keen predicted the housing slump which hasn't happened yet because labor distorted the market with its hair-brained scams and now you are saying that he copies all of the other economic flunkies who said the complete opposite.

Make up your mind !!


you cant have it both ways. If Keen is a genius then his predictions would have come true but they actually missed by a mile. You cant say that the FHOG was the difference or that it was unpredictable. The notion that the govt would stand idly by and let a housing slump simply happen is also ridiculous. this is what is wrong with both you and Steve Keen. You base your arguments on bitterness and iedology rather than hard fact logic or historical precedence.


Yes keen got the GFC right and you didn't !!!!

And you can't make a fair prediction about the housing market when the government distorts the market with home owners grants and gives guarantees on bank deposits. You keep missing this valid point.

Watch the Insight program and you can see that housing was already on the downward slope and then when labor got in it tripled the first home buyers scam to keep the bubble from deflating. It's so obvious except to a retard such as yourself. Now today, housing is on the downward slope again just as it was at the start of the GFC and guess what ?? No more easy credit from banks and no more first home buyers scams to prop it up again !!


except that stats show that house prices are creepig UP again. or is this to be like your temperature claims in which you just asy it is hotter despite the evidence saying something else?

house prices are rising - not dropping. [cue gaynail using a singular example of a hosue with massive drop]
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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #149 - Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:57pm
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:55pm:
gold_medal wrote on Jan 4th, 2013 at 2:45pm:
my actual predictrions were:

no recession for australia - correct
slight recession in USA - wrong (it was severe)
no crash in our house market - correct

2.5 out of 3 while you were predicting depression in USA, deep recession here and 40% drop in house prices.  thats 0 out of 3



It aint over yet, baby......by a looooong shot!

Enter the great recession/depression, it's a comin'

You can't tally the scores until the game's over.


and the game is over when exactly??? and i mean that sincerely. tell me exactly WHEN you consider it appropriate to tally the scores?
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