Australian Politics Forum - We owe $4.8 trillion

metal_j Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 141	Re: We owe $4.8 trillion Reply #15 - Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 10:06am I sorry, but I still don't understand... who does the Australian public owe this money to ?
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 104688 Melbourne Gender:	Re: We owe $4.8 trillion Reply #16 - Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 10:08am metal_j wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 10:06am: I sorry, but I still don't understand... who does the Australian public owe this money to ? No one knows - bankers overseas? - Jews ? , freemasons?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49015 At my desk.	Re: We owe $4.8 trillion Reply #17 - Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 10:09am For the most part, it is probably owed to other Australians.
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Sir lastnail

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #18 - Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 11:03am

gold_medal wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 8:23am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 1^st, 2013 at 11:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 1^st, 2013 at 11:22pm:

Have a look at this debt clock:

http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/

Federal Govt. debt = $231 billion.

How did we get into such a mess?

How can Wayne Swann keep a straight face when he tells us how good our economy is?

look at the housing debt - nearly 1.3 trillion !!

longloser will be happy !!

secured against assets of $4T you moron. or are you planning on paying for your house in cash?

Yes NON-PRODUCTIVE assets worth only what the bigger fool is willing to pay !! There is no shortage of fools in australia Sad

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #19 - Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 11:12am

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 9:20am:

Quote:

It shows that we are living beyond our means.

No it doesn't bobby. You have no clue at all what it means. All you know is that it is a really big number. That alone means nothing. The number could be doubled or halved and you would say the same thing.

that's totally absurd !

You are forgetting the cost of borrowing all of this money in terms of interest !! You don't get to borrow all of this money for nothing and amortizing it per head of population doesn't do anything to pay it off !!

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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Yadda

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #20 - Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 11:29am

I do not have any [personal] debt.

But, my bank deposits are not [100%] safe, because of the debt of all of my fellow Australians. Tongue

Perhaps it is time for me to withdraw my deposits, and buy gold ?

Because, they [governments], always seem to want to print more and more paper money [debasing the value of all 'currencies', AND OUR SAVINGS!].

But, there is only a limited supply of available gold in the world.

If the world's financial [AND, currency] system(s) crash under a huge burden of unredeemable debt [THAT, is a possibility], what would you rather that the majority of your assets/savings be 'in';
1/ some 1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0's recorded on a banks computer somewhere ????????
OR,
2/ some gold or silver bullion ?

p.s. and just remember, 'You can't take it with you'. Tongue

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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perceptions_now

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #21 - Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 11:38am

Bobby. wrote on Jan 1^st, 2013 at 11:22pm:

Have a look at this debt clock:

http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/

Federal Govt. debt = $231 billion.

How did we get into such a mess?

How can Wayne Swann keep a straight face when he tells us how good our economy is?

Bobby,
The area that governments directly control is their own Revenues & Expenditure. They can also have some indirect influences over what Business & Private Individuals do, BUT those Private & Business decisions are largely "not controlled" by government.

So, in regard to this Debt Clock, the figure of interest is the Commonwealth Government Debt, which is showing as around $231.5 Billion.

As another perspective, the following website shows -
The Gross Australian Federal Debt was A$244,325,881,000 as of 31st August 2012.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_national_debt

To put that into perspective, $244 Billion gives OZ a Debt to GDP ratio of under 20%, which compares very favourably against the countries listed in the following chart.

So, OZ is far from being a basket case, although there are many other countries who certainly qualify for that description & WE need to be alert, so that we do not follow their poor examples! That said, what has happened & continues to happen in many countries, such as Japan, the USA & Europe, will impact on Australia & that has already started.

BUT, that is not to say, that we should simply cut everything (Expenditure), as that may simply exacerbate existing problems.

We do need to act, BUT we need to act selectively to promote Productivity & we also need to be aware that "Growth" is no longer automatically part of the Economic scene.

In fact, "Growth" as such, is now in the process of dying and IF we don't act appropriately, THEN we will contribute towards making likely problems, even worse!

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freediver

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #22 - Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 12:03pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 11:12am:

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 9:20am:

Quote:

It shows that we are living beyond our means.

No it doesn't bobby. You have no clue at all what it means. All you know is that it is a really big number. That alone means nothing. The number could be doubled or halved and you would say the same thing.

that's totally absurd !

You are forgetting the cost of borrowing all of this money in terms of interest !! You don't get to borrow all of this money for nothing and amortizing it per head of population doesn't do anything to pay it off !!

No I am not forgetting that. I am trying, very patiently, to point out that whether this cost is inappropriate to take on depends entirely on our ability to pay the cost, and that bobby has not made any effort to figure this out. You and bobby appear to think that because the cost is a big number, it must be unsustainable. For this to make any sense at all, it must be put into perspective with a comparison of what we can afford. This perspective is completely lacking.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #23 - Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 12:26pm

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 12:03pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 11:12am:

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 9:20am:

Quote:

It shows that we are living beyond our means.

No it doesn't bobby. You have no clue at all what it means. All you know is that it is a really big number. That alone means nothing. The number could be doubled or halved and you would say the same thing.

that's totally absurd !

You are forgetting the cost of borrowing all of this money in terms of interest !! You don't get to borrow all of this money for nothing and amortizing it per head of population doesn't do anything to pay it off !!

No I am not forgetting that. I am trying, very patiently, to point out that whether this cost is inappropriate to take on depends entirely on our ability to pay the cost, and that bobby has not made any effort to figure this out. You and bobby appear to think that because the cost is a big number, it must be unsustainable. For this to make any sense at all, it must be put into perspective with a comparison of what we can afford. This perspective is completely lacking.

if you can't service the interest on the debt without paying the principle then you are in trouble. We are approaching this precipice now that the economy is taking a turn for the worse and the so called "mining boom that could never stop" is now running out of steam !!

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49015 At my desk.	Re: We owe $4.8 trillion Reply #24 - Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 1:03pm Quote: if you can't service the interest on the debt without paying the principle then you are in trouble. We are approaching this precipice now What makes you think that? A gut feeling?
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perceptions_now

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #25 - Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 1:12pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 12:26pm:

if you can't service the interest on the debt without paying the principle then you are in trouble. We are approaching this precipice now that the economy is taking a turn for the worse and the so called "mining boom that could never stop" is now running out of steam !!

That is the case, for some countries, including the USA & some of the EU countries, who have Debt to GDP ratio's of over 100% and climbing quickly AND in the case of Japan, it is well over 200% & climbing quickly.

BUT, In OZ, where that same Debt to GDP ratio is less than 20%, IT IS NOT YET APPLICABLE!

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 104688 Melbourne Gender:	Re: We owe $4.8 trillion Reply #26 - Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 1:16pm Our debt is climbing quickly too as Wayne Swann spends like a drunken sailor.
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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30088 Gender:	Re: We owe $4.8 trillion Reply #27 - Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 1:26pm freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 1:03pm: Quote: if you can't service the interest on the debt without paying the principle then you are in trouble. We are approaching this precipice now What makes you think that? A gut feeling? surplus turning into a deficit
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freediver

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #28 - Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 1:34pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 1:26pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 1:03pm:

Quote:

if you can't service the interest on the debt without paying the principle then you are in trouble. We are approaching this precipice now

What makes you think that? A gut feeling?

surplus turning into a deficit Sad

Can you explain your reasoning?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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perceptions_now

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #29 - Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 1:43pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2013 at 1:16pm:

Our debt is climbing quickly too as Wayne Swann spends like a drunken sailor.

Ah, I have it, my diagnosis is -
You have been subjected to too many Maqq-attacks & she has desensitised your logic defenses, with her incessant LIBERAL SPIN.

My recommended treatment is simply to disengage from all Maqqa contact for 2 days or take 2 mogadons and get some rest.

Oh & watch out for some of those nasty side-effects.
Not from the Mogadons, BUT from Maqqa?

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