Australian Politics Forum - We owe $4.8 trillion

Bobby.

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #90 - Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 7:01pm

gold_medal wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 7:00pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 5:00pm:

Yes bobby, simple arithmetic, but faulty logic. You appear to be equating an increase in debt with something sinister. Perhaps an inability to pay it off? Or a need to borrow to pay the interest? Who knows. But an increase in debt means nothing more than we are borrowing more.

actually bobby has a fairly potent argument. You can hardly argue that we are not borroing to at least in part cover interest if we are borrowing at all. Im a small business owner and I recently extended our financing. part of that cash flow analysis involved interest payments on existing debt.

Longweekend is right.

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gold_medal

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #91 - Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 7:02pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 6:55pm:

gold_medal wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 6:52pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 8:50am:

Our federal government debt is easily serviceable and we are in an enviable situation.

only in relative terms. being in crap up to our knees instad of our neck is not the same as standing on dry land, is it?

Clearly, you still have no idea, what you are talking about!

you just have difficulty understanding anybodys argument but your own.

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freediver

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #92 - Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 7:03pm

Quote:

would you say the same for someone who's mortgage increases in size every year?

Sure Bobby. If you don't know whether the mortgage is $10k and they are borrowing another $10k against the house to invest, or if it is $300k and steadily rising, or whether they are on $40k or $200k a year, then you know absolutely nothing at all about their situation, despite knowing that the mortgage is going up. I am not sure how many different ways I can say this. Likewise, you know absolutely nothing about Australia's debt situation if you cannot put the numbers in perspective. Merely pointing out that it is going up says nothing at all.

Quote:

only in relative terms. being in crap up to our knees instad of our neck is not the same as standing on dry land, is it?

Sure, dryness is always relative.

Quote:

actually, they are no such thing. an individual would cute costs first before borrowing

Not all individuals. Very few in fact. Cutting costs is not going to get you enough to buy a house, or even a car.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Bobby.

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #93 - Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 7:28pm

FD,
Quote:

Sure Bobby. If you don't know whether the mortgage is $10k and they are borrowing another $10k against the house to invest, or if it is $300k and steadily rising, or whether they are on $40k or $200k a year, then you know absolutely nothing at all about their situation, despite knowing that the mortgage is going up. I am not sure how many different ways I can say this. Likewise, you know absolutely nothing about Australia's debt situation if you cannot put the numbers in perspective. Merely pointing out that it is going up says nothing at all.

Hi FD,
I don't have as much trust in Wayne Swann's fiscal policies as you.

To me he acts like a drunken yobbo at a party who buys more beer
on his credit card to keep the party going.

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John Smith

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #94 - Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 7:52pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 7:28pm:

FD,
Quote:

Sure Bobby. If you don't know whether the mortgage is $10k and they are borrowing another $10k against the house to invest, or if it is $300k and steadily rising, or whether they are on $40k or $200k a year, then you know absolutely nothing at all about their situation, despite knowing that the mortgage is going up. I am not sure how many different ways I can say this. Likewise, you know absolutely nothing about Australia's debt situation if you cannot put the numbers in perspective. Merely pointing out that it is going up says nothing at all.

Hi FD,
I don't have as much trust in Wayne Swann's fiscal policies as you.

To me he acts like a drunken yobbo at a party who buys more beer
on his credit card to keep the party going.

and yet I would bet that were you at said party you would have no problem partaking of any beer.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Bobby.

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #95 - Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 7:53pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 7:52pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 7:28pm:

FD,
Quote:

Sure Bobby. If you don't know whether the mortgage is $10k and they are borrowing another $10k against the house to invest, or if it is $300k and steadily rising, or whether they are on $40k or $200k a year, then you know absolutely nothing at all about their situation, despite knowing that the mortgage is going up. I am not sure how many different ways I can say this. Likewise, you know absolutely nothing about Australia's debt situation if you cannot put the numbers in perspective. Merely pointing out that it is going up says nothing at all.

Hi FD,
I don't have as much trust in Wayne Swann's fiscal policies as you.

To me he acts like a drunken yobbo at a party who buys more beer
on his credit card to keep the party going.

and yet I would bet that were you at said party you would have no problem partaking of any beer.

Yes - a VB thanks - 4.9% for the full flavour.

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perceptions_now

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #96 - Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 8:13pm

freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 5:00pm:

Yes bobby, simple arithmetic, but faulty logic. You appear to be equating an increase in debt with something sinister. Perhaps an inability to pay it off? Or a need to borrow to pay the interest? Who knows. But an increase in debt means nothing more than we are borrowing more.

FD,
I agree!

Debt is part of the Economic cycle and has been for quite some time, although it has seen some very substantial increases, particularly in some countries and particularly after the early 1980's, when the Baby Boomer Economic Boom really got under way.

Providing it (Debt) is kept controlled & doesn't wind up with a "tail wagging the dog situation", THEN IT IS NOT A PROBLEM & most Economists will also agree on that!

Bobby,
It seems you are clearly concerned, perhaps due to the Global situation AND correctly so, BUT providing OZ keeps Debt under the 35% or so, I would suggest we will still be better placed than a lot of other countries, although we will still take a hammering, over the period ahead.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49016 At my desk.	Re: We owe $4.8 trillion Reply #97 - Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 8:18pm Quote: I don't have as much trust in Wayne Swann's fiscal policies as you. You don't need to bobby. You just need to look at the numbers for yourself.
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perceptions_now

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #98 - Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 8:20pm

gold_medal wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 7:02pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 6:55pm:

gold_medal wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 6:52pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 8:50am:

Our federal government debt is easily serviceable and we are in an enviable situation.

only in relative terms. being in crap up to our knees instad of our neck is not the same as standing on dry land, is it?

Clearly, you still have no idea, what you are talking about!

you just have difficulty understanding anybodys argument but your own.

As I said, clearly you have no idea!

Debt is part of the Economic cycle and has been for quite some time!

Providing OZ keeps Debt to GDP ratio under the 35% or so, THEN we will still be better placed than a lot of other countries & most Economists will agree on that.

Providing it (Debt) is kept controlled, THEN IT IS NOT A PROBLEM & most Economists will also agree on that.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 104726 Melbourne Gender:	Re: We owe $4.8 trillion Reply #99 - Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 8:26pm Quote: Providing it (Debt) is kept controlled, THEN IT IS NOT A PROBLEM & most Economists will also agree on that. A debt that is always increasing is out of control - like a runaway train.
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perceptions_now

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #100 - Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 8:46pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 8:26pm:

Quote:

Providing it (Debt) is kept controlled, THEN IT IS NOT A PROBLEM & most Economists will also agree on that.

A debt that is always increasing is out of control - like a runaway train.

I agree!

AND, I have made that point many times, including in posts on this thread -
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1357043638/all

However, at this point we do not have anything like a runaway train, in OZ.

That said, WE will need to be very careful with what we do, particularly over the next few years, although that does not mean, we should simply make cuts across the board!

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74520 Gender:	Re: We owe $4.8 trillion Reply #101 - Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 9:54pm Bobby. wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 8:26pm: Quote: Providing it (Debt) is kept controlled, THEN IT IS NOT A PROBLEM & most Economists will also agree on that. A debt that is always increasing is out of control - like a runaway train. good thing our debt is always increasing out of control then isn't it !!!
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Sir lastnail

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #102 - Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 10:47pm

gold_medal wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 6:56pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 10:35am:

freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 9:30am:

our relatively small debt obligation is a great circumstance to be in

Not according to Steve Keen !!

In 2008 his predictions of the economy have come to bear...

In 2008 his advice was to get out of debt !!

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2008/s2385821.htm

his predictions of a 40% drop in house prices??? when did that happen in australia besides never?

moron.

give it time arsehole. You said they would only go up but it turns out they have gone down so you were wrong of course. And everyone except you knows that Keens predictions didn't factor in labors first vendors boost which just bought more time for the housing bubble to suck people into debt they can't possibly service !!

if you watch the video Keen predicts a slump in retail spending as a consequence of the debt fueled housing bubble Sad

You never predicted that did you ?

keen was right on the money in 2008 Wink

Quote:

KERRY O'BRIEN: So within the landscape of the global economy, which again we're not sure... nobody really seems to be able to say with confidence where it is going. What do you think is likely... most likely to happen to the Australian economy now over the short to medium term?

PROFESSOR STEVEN KEEN: I can see us going into a serious increase in unemployment, a serious economic slowdown.

Credit level's collapsing; we've already seen that starting to happen in the most recent figures.

And a credit driven downturn in the economy, driven largely through a collapse in retail sales, because this time around the part of society carrying the debt is the household sector; it business sector in the 1920s and also of course in the 1990s.

Households can't sack the kids; they can't declare themselves bankrupt anywhere near as easily as a corporation can do. So the only thing they can do to control their situation is to cut back drastically on retail spending; and that will of course mean the retail sector is the first one to collapse.

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49016 At my desk.	Re: We owe $4.8 trillion Reply #103 - Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 10:52pm LOL - 40%. That is hardly 'come to bear'. Most economists could have made a more accurate guess with about 5 minute's thought. The only thing that makes Keen stand out is how badly he got it wrong.
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Sir lastnail

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Re: We owe $4.8 trillion
Reply #104 - Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 11:05pm

gold_medal wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 6:52pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 8:50am:

Our federal government debt is easily serviceable and we are in an enviable situation.

only in relative terms. being in crap up to our knees instad of our neck is not the same as standing on dry land, is it?

it's funny how you don't think the same about the average mortgage holder that has paid to much for junk property and racked up 1.3 trillion in housing debt for something that creates nothing but debt !!

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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