progressiveslol wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 9:20am:


please show me a quote where labor has ever said it wanted to influence other countries? making things up again tweedle dum?

John Smith wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 9:23am:



If I recall correctly Julia Gillard said one of the reasons to implement a carbon tax policy was that China would in time follow suit, ergo this is Australia influencing Chinese policy.....

The fact that the Chinese have ordered their airlines to not pay any fines to the EU for not having a carbon pricing system obviously seems to show their view on the matter and the ol flame haired chick seems to have missed that one, but anyway....

How much does it matter?

Well how about this fact....

In 2010, the Chinese emissions GROWTH was FIVE TIMES that of the Kyoto countries REDUCTIONS combined.

Now tell us again how we need to allow China to keep polluting more whilst the rest of us reduce.

The per capita argument would us thinking it was more important to reduce the emissions of the Falkland Islands, Gibraltar and the Dutch Antilles before the world's worst polluter.

I think Russia wants the thermostat turned up a bit anyway, its cold up there. 

Maybe we can take credit for Mexico's global warming legislation which includes a mandate to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide by 30% below business-as-usual levels by 2020, and by 50% below 2000 levels by 2050.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=mexico-approves-landmark-climat...

Or South Korea's carbon trading system, which like Mexico's was passed with broad bipartisan support earlier this year.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/02/us-carbon-korea-idUSBRE8410TN20120502

We can't take credit for California's new cap and trade system, because that has been in the pipeline for sometime.

However, according to progs' logic we can take credit for South Africa's planned carbon tax, which begins in 2013, and Japan's planned carbon tax, which will be phased in between 2013 and 2016.

Although perhaps we should step back and allow the real pioneers, British Colombia, NZ and the EU to take the credit.

What progs' post clearly shows us is that those countries that stall will clearly create ammunition for other countries to stall. If we want a global agreement we can't afford to be half assed.

Abbott's threat to dismantle the our carbon pricing scheme is a threat to us all.

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 10:09am:


It's very concerning. But as we can see we need to develop a critical mass to get this ball really rolling. It's inevitable, but will it be too late. If we vote down our carbon tax we'll be working against this critical mass. Just as progs and Maqqa are using Russia as a reason to delay action in Australia, other similar minded people will use our actions to delay action in their own country.

Vested interests understand this. That's why Australia is of interests to the Heartland Institute. It's why Heartland Institute helps fund our anti carbon price lobby.

http://watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com/2012/02/18/follow-the-money-heartland-in...

MOTR wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 9:29am:


Noo... Maqqa is Forrest Gump (or Gumpy), progs and armpit are tweedle dee and tweedle dum (not necessarily in that order) .