Australian Politics Forum - Campbell Newman to scrap compulsory voting in QLD

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49014 At my desk.	Re: Campbell Newman to scrap compulsory voting in QLD Reply #180 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:00pm Sounds like Joyce is using the same argument many here have - optional voting encourages irrational over rational voters. It leads to over-representation of the highly excitable minorities.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49014 At my desk.	Re: Campbell Newman to scrap compulsory voting in QLD Reply #181 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:00pm It is good to see people recognising that optional voting undermines democracy.
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gold_medal

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Re: Campbell Newman to scrap compulsory voting in QLD
Reply #182 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:01pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Jan 6^th, 2013 at 11:57am:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 12:23pm:

Newman is well aware that Labor voters are hard workers with families and often work on polling days, making voting a real effort.

For this very reason, the idea is GENERALLY lobbied for by the RIGHT of politics

So it was refreshing to see Barnaby Joyce bagging Newman's dream, the other day
His reasoning was that supporters of RAT-BAG parties ( ... One Nation, Shooter's Party, white supremest groups, etc. ) are more passionate in their determination to vote than the nonchalant ( ... read lazy) Libnat, ALP, swinging voters

IRONICALLY ( ... right wing extremists, aside) I believe non-compulsory voting would favour the GREENS - who are ALSO a very passionate group of environmentalists and humanitarians who would NEVER surrender their RIGHT TO VOTE and a voice in our democracy

actually dimwit, it has been suggested by both sides of politics at one time or other. no analyst is certian of which side it woudl favour if indeed any. the idea that all labor voters work weekends in low-paid menial jobs is about 100 years out of date.

expect more intelligence than this from you, buzzard.

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BigOl64

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Re: Campbell Newman to scrap compulsory voting in QLD
Reply #183 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:02pm

gold_medal wrote on Jan 6^th, 2013 at 11:26am:

just vote you lazy buggers... Yaou'd think you were being asked to do something onerous. it is the price you pay for democracy.

1.5 million Australian voters say no thanks Grin

Many, many democracies in first world countries reject a system that forces people against their will to the polls and they function just fine so any argument that compulsory voting the only sure way to have a democracy is patently false by any standard.

The only thing that will have is the sheeple so used to being told what to do will have to think for themselves and scumbag pollies won't be scamming the Aussie taxpayer at every election.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 104678 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Campbell Newman to scrap compulsory voting in QLD Reply #184 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:03pm It's right that people should vote but it's still a pain in the arse.
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freediver

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Re: Campbell Newman to scrap compulsory voting in QLD
Reply #185 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:19pm

Quote:

Many, many democracies in first world countries reject a system that forces people against their will to the polls and they function just fine

Many dictatorships also manage to 'function' just fine. I would hope that Australians might set the bar a bit higher for democracy.

Quote:

so any argument that compulsory voting the only sure way to have a democracy is patently false by any standard

Bigol would you like to address any of the arguments people have actually made, instead of making up your own to counter?

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muso

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Re: Campbell Newman to scrap compulsory voting in QLD
Reply #186 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:20pm

freediver wrote on Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:00pm:

It is good to see people recognising that optional voting undermines democracy.

If you're talking about the poll, it shows that most people think that compulsary voting makes the system less democratic or or makes no difference to democracy. Currently it's 7 to 4 with 3 on the fence.

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Campbell Newman to scrap compulsory voting in QLD Reply #187 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:25pm freediver wrote on Jan 6^th, 2013 at 11:18am: Is the concept relevant to compulsory voting in any way? Yes it is.
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gold_medal

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Re: Campbell Newman to scrap compulsory voting in QLD
Reply #188 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:30pm

I still dont get why you lazy sods find the concept of voting such an unfair obligation? does it stretch your tiny minds to omuch to have to actually make a decision? Or is the problem that you are so self-centred that voting - which is about the larger picture - is of no interest to you?

The argument of being onerous is ridiculous.
the argument from other countries is pitifiul since by almost every measuer we are better than the vast amjority

so what is it?

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Bobby.

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Re: Campbell Newman to scrap compulsory voting in QLD
Reply #189 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:32pm

gold_medal wrote on Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

I still dont get why you lazy sods find the concept of voting such an unfair obligation? does it stretch your tiny minds to omuch to have to actually make a decision? Or is the problem that you are so self-centred that voting - which is about the larger picture - is of no interest to you?

The argument of being onerous is ridiculous.
the argument from other countries is pitifiul since by almost every measuer we are better than the vast amjority

so what is it?

Dear Longweekend,
The answer is simple:

Because the end result is either Labor or Liberal & they are both useless.

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Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26508 Australia	Re: Campbell Newman to scrap compulsory voting in QLD Reply #190 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:34pm Its that all of the choices are bad and it doesnt matter which one you pick you get one of them. SOB
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muso

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Re: Campbell Newman to scrap compulsory voting in QLD
Reply #191 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:37pm

freediver wrote on Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:00pm:

Sounds like Joyce is using the same argument many here have - optional voting encourages irrational over rational voters. It leads to over-representation of the highly excitable minorities.

It's easily countered by the argument that you're forcing people to go through the act of voting, and that includes people who will either choose a candidate at random or vote informal just to escape a fine. It's hardly adding any additional rational element to the table. I'd delete the word excitable and substitute "rational", meaning those people who want to participate and are consequently willing to think it through carefully.

Apart from that, the turnout itself is considered to be a measure of the effectiveness of government. If it's artificially high (by compulsory voting) it masks that measure of effectiveness.

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« Last Edit: Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:45pm by muso »

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muso

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Re: Campbell Newman to scrap compulsory voting in QLD
Reply #192 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:42pm

gold_medal wrote on Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:30pm:

I still dont get why you lazy sods find the concept of voting such an unfair obligation? does it stretch your tiny minds to omuch to have to actually make a decision? Or is the problem that you are so self-centred that voting - which is about the larger picture - is of no interest to you?

The argument of being onerous is ridiculous.

WHo made that argument? Whose argument are you countering here? I may be wrong, but nobody has made the argument that it is onerous as far as I am aware. Did somebody here say "damn, it's such a burden having to vote?" and I missed it?

Quote:

the argument from other countries is pitifiul since by almost every measuer we are better than the vast amjority

Again, it's a non sequitor. Most people would not consider the issue of compulsory voting to be central to any measure of being "better" or "worse". Would you? I certainly wouldn't.

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BigOl64

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Re: Campbell Newman to scrap compulsory voting in QLD
Reply #193 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:44pm

freediver wrote on Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:19pm:

Quote:

Many, many democracies in first world countries reject a system that forces people against their will to the polls and they function just fine

Many dictatorships also manage to 'function' just fine. I would hope that Australians might set the bar a bit higher for democracy.

Quote:

so any argument that compulsory voting the only sure way to have a democracy is patently false by any standard

Bigol would you like to address any of the arguments people have actually made, instead of making up your own to counter?

You haven't actually made one, constantly repeating a latin phrase in an incorrect context isn't an argument.

BTW, this is a reply to longy, so I think bugger off may be an appropriate reply to you post there FD

Make your argument clearly concisely and without all the 'tricky latin' stuff and you may not have rely on the 'you don't understand my argument' retort as much; or the constant need to burtt into other people's conversations.

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Campbell Newman to scrap compulsory voting in QLD
Reply #194 - Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:47pm

gold_medal wrote on Jan 6^th, 2013 at 12:01pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jan 6^th, 2013 at 11:57am:

Peter Freedman wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2013 at 12:23pm:

Newman is well aware that Labor voters are hard workers with families and often work on polling days, making voting a real effort.

For this very reason, the idea is GENERALLY lobbied for by the RIGHT of politics

So it was refreshing to see Barnaby Joyce bagging Newman's dream, the other day
His reasoning was that supporters of RAT-BAG parties ( ... One Nation, Shooter's Party, white supremest groups, etc. ) are more passionate in their determination to vote than the nonchalant ( ... read lazy) Libnat, ALP, swinging voters

IRONICALLY ( ... right wing extremists, aside) I believe non-compulsory voting would favour the GREENS - who are ALSO a very passionate group of environmentalists and humanitarians who would NEVER surrender their RIGHT TO VOTE and a voice in our democracy

the idea that all labor voters work weekends in low-paid menial jobs is about 100 years out of date.

Who said ALL ?

It has been WELL documented as FACT in the UK
I lived with a household of Labour campaigners at the time of Thatcher's first election win
They all prayed for good weather on election day, as traditional Labour voters were LESS likely to own a motor vehicle - therefore LESS likely to vote if it was a sh!t of a day, outside
A small percentage - mind you - but a small percentage is generally what makes ( ... or breaks) a government

Of people who DO work on Saturdays ( ... retail shop assistants, hospitality workers, building industry, etc. ) ...

Do you think they'd be more likely to for the ALP or the LibNats ?

( ... bear in mind, their partners are ALSO tied up all day Saturday - at home with young kids)

The above is VERIFIED by general RIGHT wing support for non-compulsory voting - and general LEFT wing opposition - the world over

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Poll
Question: Do you think that compulsory voting
* This poll has now closed *
makes the system more democratic 6 (30.0%) makes the system less democratic 8 (40.0%) has no effect on democracy 6 (30.0%) Total votes: 20 « Created by: muso on: Jan 5^th, 2013 at 3:45pm »