Quote:On the surface, that sounds very reasonable. But you're making two important mistakes. The first is the manner in which you try to gather information.
LOL. So asking Muslims is the 'wrong way' to gather information on Islam? Before Abu and Malik turned up here there was a lot of criticism about people doing it the other way, because we couldn't possibly interpret any of it properly without the context that being a Muslim usually provides. Another benefit of my wiki is that it gets past the even more negative depiction of Islam that people are able to create by quoting the Koran, Hadiths and various scholars directly.
Quote:Your debate style is to ask a question, then when you receive a reply you take tiny pieces out of context and use them to twist the general answer you've been given.
Can you explain how the context might put a different meaning on Falah's statement that spousal rape is not a punishable offence? It counds to me like you object ot me taking the facts and leaving the absurd spin.
Quote:Is your goal to trip people up and 'win' the argument or is it to find out what Muslims think?
Apparently you have to trick Muslims into telling the truth. Abu for example has been busy telling fellow Muslims how they need to be more selective in what they reveal and more strategic with their propaganda.
Quote:When you deliberately misinterpret things people say, it makes them frustrated and then you get personal emotional responses that have nothing to do with what the broader Muslim population believe.
So Falah said that spousal rape is not a punishable offence because he got all emotional?
Quote:And that leads right on to the second problem. The Muslim community is diverse. They believe different things
According to Abu that is a punishable offence. Death I think.
Quote:You don't acknowledge this in your wiki that I have seen.
Sure I do. Where there are genuine differences, rather than western apologists like yourself being tricked into thinking there are, that is acknowledged in the wiki article.
Quote:What's the point? Will you change the wiki if provided with evidence that contradicts it? No...
I have before. That is why I use the wiki. I make changes all the time. There are a number of issues I am still waiting on a straight answer on.
Quote:you just have that disclaimer saying the information may be out of date. That's a cop out.
Not sure what you are talking about there. Islam is unchanging.
Quote:I approached you about misinformation in your wiki and you ignored it.
If you had as much trouble then as now in getting to the point, this does not surprise me.
Quote:At the very least, you should clarify that the info in your wiki is the opinion of a few Muslims that you have debated with
I believe it opens with that.
Quote:Soren, there is much positive, civil interfaith dialogue happening all over the world involving Muslim thinkers (universally recognised or not).
Just like on this forum, though Abu and Falah do frequently resort to insults. But at least they aren't killing people. I think that counts as civil.
Quote:I don't have any answers about how to get past those emotional reactions and the problems they cause.
Why not just ignore them and repeat the question? It works for me.
Quote:Who has attempted to make Islam your context?
Abu and Falah try this all the time. That's partly what the deception of non-Muslims article is about.
Quote:Yes, FD, Believe it or not, there are people doing classes in Bible study too. There are Christians studying Biblical Greek, Jews studying Hebrew, Hindus and Buddhists studying Sanskrit and Pali.
Karnal are you suggesting I need to do that in order to have any validity in criticising Falah for wanting wife beating and rape legalised?
Quote:But this is not just about the muslims. Non-muslims need to play their part as well. And that includes not being tunnel visioned about how muslims behave, and attribute the actions of a minority to the majority. Again, the film protests are a good example: everyone thinks of the unfortunate behaviour of some thugs in Sydney, but seem to forget the unambiguous and unanimous condemnation from the country's muslim leadership.
You mean the condemnation of the film-makers?
Quote:I couldn't agree more. I said the emotional sensitivity has gotten understandably worse - this is a direct result of Western attitudes toward Muslims.
Obviously you would never see it as the Muslims fault. I'm sure that Danish cartoonist deserved it for being part of the grand conspiracy.
Quote:I don't think its a simple matter of being irrationally offended by a silly film. I believe the film was part of a wider malicious campaign going on in parts the west to deliberately alienate their muslim populations. It is designed - very successfully - as a self-fulfilling prophecy - to "prove" that islam is intolerant and hostile to free speech - and therefore incompatible in western society.
No proof needed. Abu and Falah openly admit to the death penalty for apostasy, blasphemy etc.
Quote:mainstream muslims and non-muslims alike reject these fanatics
At the same time as making excuses for them and blaming it all on the west.
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